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ProGamerX56
Green Marine


Posts: 45
Registered: 02-14


What tools do you guys recommend for Doom TAS runs? Cannot find anything via google search, just wondering what is optimal.

Old Post 03-07-14 19:16 #
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4shockblast
Turbo Speed


Posts: 659
Registered: 12-11


I suggest you start with PrBoom+ and its TAS tools; that should be easier than building demos tic by tic. With PrBoom+, you have access to a few TAS tools. Within the options menu, there's a gamespeed modifier, which allows you to run at a lower gamespeed than usual. There's also two options that allow you to automate strafe50, which is the fastest diagonal running possible and strafe50 on turns, which is a TAS convention, even though technically it's believed to be impossible to do without automation today.

There's also different parameters you can start with for TAS. If you record a demo (say demo1.lmp), and you make a mistake, you can run PrBoom+ with this parameter "-recordfromto demo1 demo2" in order to re-record the mistake. You will play back the demo, and you can take control of the player before you made the mistake by pressing, I think, 'Q' by default, but you can rebind that key. There's also "-skipsec #" that allows you to skip # seconds so you don't have to re-watch the entire demo. Finally, there's a few other useful parameters "-trace_thingshealth #1 #2 #3" allows you to trace damage to things with the numbers #1, #2, #2. You can find the number of a thing (such as a barrel or monster) by loading the wad in Doom Builder 2.

You can also use the IDDTx2 cheat to see where keys and monsters are, and PrBoom+ also offers a chasecam feature, where, if you play back the demo, pressing the 0 on the number pad twice will allow you to move around on your own and watch your demo from an outside perspective.

If you want full control over your movements, then you should use XDRE2, available here. In it, you can enter commands like "mf50" in the top right field, and, if you press space, the player will do that specified command on the tic (or frame) you are on (mf50 will make him run forward at normal speed). The XDRE2 README has info on how to find and change those commands. TAS Demos that you record frame by frame are called built demos. It also has a bruteforce option, but I've never personally gotten it to work, so someone else would be better at explaining it.

Old Post 03-07-14 20:47 #
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Memfis
Forum Spammer


Posts: 5793
Registered: 04-07


Another thing that, I feel, should be said, just a friendly advice: I think it's a bit early for you to play with TAS tools. From the few demos you've posted it can be seen that your speedrunning skills are not very developed at the moment. Because of that I doubt that you'll be able to produce quality tool-assisted demos. To create good TAS demos that won't look silly to experienced players you need a very good understanding of the game, from simple tactics to obscure technical details. You really need to improve at normal speedrunning before entering the TAS territory if you want to produce demos of decent quality.

Old Post 03-07-14 22:44 #
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vdgg
MM2 maniac


Posts: 1595
Registered: 08-07


Very well written two posts above!

What Memfis said is true, I didn't want to write the same thing the 3rd or 4th time again sounding like a jerk, but even though it is not essential (theoretically) to be an outstanding player to create outstanding TAS, yet somehow Looper's or Kimo's works are top quality assisted or not, showing that the player's part plays a very important role. Feel free to create demos for yourself, post any doubts/questions here, but refrain yourself from releasing TAS demos which can be easily recorded unassisted by experienced players.

Old Post 03-08-14 00:12 #
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4shockblast
Turbo Speed


Posts: 659
Registered: 12-11


Yeah, from personal experience, I would say that it's best to practice more non-TAS speedrunning and practice some TAS before actually releasing any serious TAS demos. I would say that I attempted Doom Done Turbo, for instance, far too early, and it's very unoptimized and highly improvable.

Old Post 03-08-14 00:25 #
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ProGamerX56
Green Marine


Posts: 45
Registered: 02-14


Not sure what to expect in terms of replies, as I am not sure if this is optimised enough. I have been practicing non-tas but struggle to get enough control when turbo. Post what you think. Yh it's TAS, but I'm only TASing Turbo runs so I actually can have some control. The demo still needs optimisation, notably at 2.06s when I hit the pedestal. See info file for specific info.
BTW I did straferun, trying to get the hang on strafe50
See ya.

Attachment: 47-06-trbo255tas.zip
This has been downloaded 12 time(s).

Last edited by ProGamerX56 on 03-10-14 at 20:07

Old Post 03-10-14 19:23 #
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Looper
Member


Posts: 545
Registered: 07-09



ProGamerX56 said:

I haven't ignored Memfis and Shock's
advice, so this'll be my last TAS until I get a good time on MAP 31 Doom 2 UV-Turbo255.



Map31 on turbo is rather bad because backing to get more momentum while the door is opening in most cases is useless because with turbo it doesn't matter, unless you do it tic perfect. You will run 30 distance/tic anyways, so you don't learn to strafe50. Also, the angle of movement can be "what ever" because you run so fast that you can zigzag without losing a tic. So basically you are just training the timing to open a door as soon as possible. Although if turbo255 speedrunning is your thing then why not :-D

Your turbo255 TAS has SR40 (strafe right 40) and SL40 (left) commands when those should be sr127 and sl127 but prboom is not doing the turbo correctly. Not sure if there's fix for it.

Old Post 03-10-14 21:27 #
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4shockblast
Turbo Speed


Posts: 659
Registered: 12-11



Looper said:


Your turbo255 TAS has SR40 (strafe right 40) and SL40 (left) commands when those should be sr127 and sl127 but prboom is not doing the turbo correctly. Not sure if there's fix for it.



Yes, I forgot to mention this, for -turbo 255 TAS without XDRE or building, one needs to use the test version of PrBoom+ 2.5.1.4. Otherwise, it inserts the wrong strafe tics, so I suggest for ProGamerX56 to re-download PrBoom+ for correct turbo recording.

Old Post 03-10-14 21:56 #
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4shockblast
Turbo Speed


Posts: 659
Registered: 12-11


Made two quick TASes for E4M7, one is with PrBoom+, other is built with XDRE2. I didn't optimize much, but this should demonstrate what you might want to strive for in TAS.

PrBoom+ time: 5.63

built time: 5.31

Attachment: e4m7tux005.zip
This has been downloaded 10 time(s).

Old Post 03-11-14 00:28 #
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ProGamerX56
Green Marine


Posts: 45
Registered: 02-14


Copied .cfg and that added launcher plus my old settings.

Last edited by ProGamerX56 on 03-12-14 at 17:17

Old Post 03-12-14 17:03 #
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ProGamerX56
Green Marine


Posts: 45
Registered: 02-14


Rerecorded with PrBoomPlus2.5.1.4.
Still unoptimised, but tell me if the tics were counted fine.
.42 secs faster than last demo so that's good.
Still working on this plus some solo-net stuff.
Not final yet, mind.
Used Strafe50 in these runs. My speedrunning skills are improving, but still not good enough, I will be some day though, with practice.

Attachment: e4m7-tux-9.zip
This has been downloaded 12 time(s).

Old Post 03-12-14 20:11 #
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ProGamerX56
Green Marine


Posts: 45
Registered: 02-14


Done E1M4 -turbo 175, beat OddyseyOfNoises run by like .10 tics, still very improvable.

Attachment: d14-09.zip
This has been downloaded 10 time(s).

Old Post 03-18-14 19:11 #
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