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Memfis
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No matter what kind of map you make for FDC, almost inevitably there will be complaints from some players about it being too confusing at times, routes being unbalanced, etc. So I thought that maybe we could have FDC-like contests but on the maps that everybody knows? For example, I say that next week there will be a contest on AV.wad but I don't specify the map yet. Then on the day of the contest I say that you have to beat map24 with 100% kills. This way we can get competition truly based on playing skills rather than lucky route guesses and stuff like that. Would there be interest in this?

Old Post 07-16-14 13:14 #
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dew
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Of course there would be interest in it, however you'll run into more problems and different complaints. You won't be able to pick an existing map and have the same starting line, ever. Even if everyone knows about the map, say Hunted or Go 2 It, not everyone will know the map itself. See Doom vs Doom 2 debates, people often mention they don't bother/aren't familiar with the game they like less, heh.

And even between those who know the map intimately, there will be massive differences. Say you picked Cursed Cellars from Scythe 2, it would be less of a skill contest and more of "try to beat dew's muscle memory within the next hour", because I've spent days grinding that max and I don't need the "introduction time" with the map, routes, etc. Pick av24 and we'll be chasing someone else with a headstart.

Afaik this is exactly why your compatriots started the whole FDC industry, and it was debated a few times during the Idoom.cz contests from a few years back. That's why more obscure wads were picked, but often times there was someone who knew even those maps. Go ahead with your plans, but you should be aware of this issue and the fact it might not be 100% solvable.

Old Post 07-16-14 13:42 #
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40oz
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I think your best bet for an alternate FDC would be to ditch the "first-try" part of it, and instead announce a short episode of about five or six maps and state that they are explicitly designed for competitive use. Give a release date and say that competitors have three days to submit their best demos for each map. Their demos could be their first try or it could be their 100th try. It just has to be done within that 3 day trial period. The demos are then sent to you via private message, not shared in the thread where they can see what times they are competing against. Then the scores can be announced after those 3 days.

Personally blaming a map for being too confusing or difficult is poor sportsmanship. I say make it as hard and unfair as you possibly can.

Old Post 07-16-14 21:26 #
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Looper
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40oz said:

Personally blaming a map for being too confusing or difficult is poor sportsmanship. I say make it as hard and unfair as you possibly can.



This, but making maps like "If you don't notice one switch at first time -> you lose 2 minutes" is too brutal :P

Old Post 07-16-14 21:56 #
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Kotzugi
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I like 40oz's idea. However:

40oz said:
Personally blaming a map for being too confusing or difficult is poor sportsmanship. I say make it as hard and unfair as you possibly can.

Hard tricky maps can be learned in three days, for FDAs there'd be more luck involved in this case and may not reflect true skill.

Old Post 07-16-14 22:18 #
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blob1024
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for sure it may be upsetting to waste minutes for puzzles or hidden passages or switches, but it's okay if some levels are like that.
just do more FDAs and for sure everybody will run into maps of his/her(her???) taste

btw I'm still open minded for that kind of ranked fda stuff.
just year-long or so, and points for various achievements while playing the fdas. 0 death-fastest, fastest, highest secrets or kills, just taking part,etc.

Old Post 07-16-14 23:41 #
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dew
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blob1024 said:
btw I'm still open minded for that kind of ranked fda stuff.
just year-long or so, and points for various achievements while playing the fdas. 0 death-fastest, fastest, highest secrets or kills, just taking part,etc.


This is something I can get behind. Evaluate the same demos from various standpoints to appreciate different styles people have, appreciate different skillsets it takes.

Old Post 07-17-14 01:28 #
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j4rio
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If it's a reknown map, you could just make it a max/speed/whatever contest instead of fda.

Old Post 07-17-14 08:39 #
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Plut
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+1 to j4rio. Also, I think these rules will kill almost all soul of FDC: emotion, feeling that somebody exactly plays the wad in the interim, feeling that you will lost plenty of time if you'll die etc.

Old Post 07-17-14 09:15 #
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blob1024
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@dew and memfis:
-in your PM- player A would make 12 pts, a mistake of mine :p
hope there aren't more

Old Post 07-17-14 20:47 #
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40oz
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dew said:

This is something I can get behind. Evaluate the same demos from various standpoints to appreciate different styles people have, appreciate different skillsets it takes.



I do too, a points system where its possible to come in first place without actually being the fastest or not dying would be really cool.

Old Post 07-17-14 21:18 #
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Memfis
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Hmm, I'm not so sure about turning Doom into some ice skating contest (lol), seems like the point system would add too much weird complications to the process. Right now it's very simple: you come first = you win and you know that your win was deserved. But how would you feel about winning by finding some secret even though other players exited faster than you? Would you really be happy or would you perhaps feel a little awkward about your win?

The only idea I really liked is the bonus points for not dying. I remember at the second international FDC some people were surprised that JCD won even though he died once.

Last edited by Memfis on 07-18-14 at 10:04

Old Post 07-18-14 09:59 #
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blob1024
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Memfis said:
Hmm, I'm not so sure about turning Doom into some ice skating contest (lol), seems like the point system would add too much weird complications to the process. Right now it's very simple: you come first = you win and you know that your win was deserved. But how would you feel about winning by finding some secret even though other players exited faster than you? Would you really be happy or would you perhaps feel a little awkward about your win?

The only idea I really liked is the bonus points for not dying. I remember at the second international FDC some people were surprised that JCD won even though he died once.


well everything is around what fda is
it should be a first demo attempt contest. so what you consider "winning" or what you consider a more interesting video than another one?
speed? tactics? exploration?
just that. it wasnt meant to value less how fast you manage to reach exit, more like evaluate different kind of playing styles

Old Post 07-18-14 13:52 #
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Archi
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Not related to topic idea.
We've talk about FDC with c4tnt and he proposed idea of FDC-like contest, but with feature. Players get wad without any monsters before contest. After some time contest starts with same map but with monsters, additional secrets, weapons and etc.
So everyone will know routes on map and some weapons and health placement.

Old Post 07-21-14 20:18 #
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