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myk
volveré y seré millones


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Enjay said:
What I am pissed off about is the fact that almost every week the newstuff thread has been less and less about the wads, and more and more about the review style. Note: not even about the content of the reviews, or disagreeing with the opinions expressed, but about the style of review.


I agree with your post pretty much and have posted similar things a few times in the past, if not like every other post on these threads. Nonetheless, note how the news thread was started with this subject. That was pretty much a provocation when coupled to the comments themselves.

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Old Post 12-08-02 21:52 #
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Szymanski


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Grind2x would benefit from difficulty levels being implemented, ie easy should be not the same as hard skill. i'll admit to being unable to beat it as it is.

Detail isn't bad, but could be improved with a little thought and the author looks capable of better. The pipes are very cool :)

Old Post 12-08-02 21:55 #
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Grazza
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Grind2X was intended as the ultra-hard version of Grind2, so it kind of makes sense that there is just the one setting. In Grind2 you will find a range of difficulty settings on the same map, implemented pretty well too IMO. For instance, skill 3 makes Pacifist feasible (add -fast and/or -respawn for an extra challenge).

Grind2X is difficult - you may need to provoke a fair bit of monster infighting, especially if you want max kills. And you may also want to work out your strategy near the start very carefully, especially with respect to the room with the mancubuses in it. In my fast-monsters run, I cleared the imps away from in front of them without waking the other monsters, and then quickly ran in and out, provoking a really big infight and only having to deal with a few escapee demons before returning to clear up a few weakened monsters.

Old Post 12-08-02 22:18 #
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magikal
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Szymanski said:
Grind2x would benefit from difficulty levels being implemented, ie easy should be not the same as hard skill. i'll admit to being unable to beat it as it is.

Detail isn't bad, but could be improved with a little thought and the author looks capable of better. The pipes are very cool :)


Now that's a balanced and impartial view, concise, honest and encouraging from somebody who really knows how to make excellent maps.

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Old Post 12-08-02 22:33 #
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magikal
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Bad double click.:(

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Old Post 12-08-02 23:03 #
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Hyena
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Grazza said:
No, it isn't hypocritical. I gave some detailed thoughts on what a reviewer should do in this post. I saw little point repeating them here.


The point I'm making is that you said "useless" like we have no redeeming values whatsoever. I always look for the good in the bad and the bad in the good. You on the other hand are being insulting on a personal level.

Old Post 12-08-02 23:28 #
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Cyb


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mustafa saed said:
I hate it when muafuckas bash other peoples hard work
and don't bring shit themselves to the table....cough afterglow....cough.....



You have obviously never seen one of Afterglow's maps then.

Old Post 12-08-02 23:37 #
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Arioch
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Cyb said:


You have obviously never seen one of Afterglow's maps then.

No, it's true, he needs to release crud. :P

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Old Post 12-08-02 23:43 #
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magikal
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Hyena said:


The point I'm making is that you said "useless" like we have no redeeming values whatsoever. I always look for the good in the bad and the bad in the good. You on the other hand are being insulting on a personal level.


The point is the review is un-necessarily personal in the first place and should not be. Your reviews are reasonable in comparison.

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Old Post 12-08-02 23:51 #
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Jello
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Look, everyone whines about how you need to be nice to new mappers and such, give them nice critiquing and such to improve their skills. I agree with this. However, this week the wads that really got slammed hard were the two death match ones, and from what I can see they look like ass. It looks like the mapper took almost no time whatsoever on them.

And then there's Grind2x. From what I can see, Kara isn't really a n00b, so she doesn't need quite the same sugar coating as a n00b. Then there's the fact that the theme is pretty hap-hazard, and some more detailing would be nice. However for me this doesn't matter all that much, as it has pretty good gameplay. But not everyone can stand a map if it just has good gameplay, some people need good graphics to go along with it. Everyone has different opinions, and deathzor was just giving you his opinions as he's supposed to.

The other wads got pretty decent reviews, except for resizing the sprites, which is a genuine and valid comment. He seemed to love zort08, and gave it all the praise he thought it deserved.

On the subject of zort08, this is a damn great wad. The effect were really nifty, and I look forward to more releases from cyb.

So yeah, you have to take everything in context and all that. So c'mon, give him a little break on the reviews, he's doing what he thought he should. If you don't like it, then write your own reviews. Hell, ling even invited people to write their own.

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Old Post 12-09-02 00:35 #
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Grazza
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Hyena said:
The point I'm making is that you said "useless" like we have no redeeming values whatsoever.
No. I was saying that I have not found your reviews useful. You and deathz0r may very well be capable of writing reviews that I would find useful, and you may very well also be wonderful and multi-talented people.

Old Post 12-09-02 01:14 #
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Rellik
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NewStuff Chronicals is a review of levels sponsored by, and on the very top of the news at, DOOMWORLD. This means that it'll get a lot of attention, and will in a small way represent DOOMWORLD. Do you think any other game site would have stuff like this on their site? No way. DOOMWORLD is a very respectable site, it's the top of the heap, and when your reviews sound like simple minded rantings it lessens the respectability of the whole site. Don't you think the


...definitive source for Doom news, information and development


should put just a little more effort into the reviews at the forefront of the site? Look, if DOOMWORLD is gonna do reviews, why do 'em so half assed? If you aren't up to doing reviews worthy of being representative of the site, then don't do them. This shouldn't be treated as just some "dumb ass fuckin reviews that don't mean nuthin to nobody so I'll just spew whatever shit cumms outta mah mouth". Couldn't you just take a little pride in doing it and try to do a slightly professional job?

I mean shit, people are gonna come in here and think the place is run by a bunch of kids.

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Old Post 12-09-02 01:55 #
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mewse
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Cyb said:


That flash only happens on occasion, not enough for it to bug me, and only in 1.23 (as I said the majority of the testing was done in 2.0).



err, i saw it a few times in 2.0


I just played through it in 1.23, and he didn't teleport after he died. So either some weird occurence happened (perhaps if you kill him and he is being moved at the same time then the script doesn't terminate properly, but that is such a rare thing that it's not worth racking my brain over.


i saw this in 2.0 also, but i was using god mode at that point.. and then i idclip'd to the exit

Old Post 12-09-02 02:04 #
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myk
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Jello, the problem with the reviews is that people talk more about the reviews than about the maps. Why? Because of what the reviews are like. Starting with a provocative "you can't take the bashing" (ask yourself now who started the "whining", with paranoid preamble and all) and then being unable to judge correctly (at least the map I am familiar with.) A review or even just a presentation is not just an opinion, and if shallow opinions are all you get, you get the focus moved from the maps to the review. And then the reviewer goes forth to say that he has to take the pains to go through all these crap maps when reviewing them. Who cares, if you don't like doing what you do you don't do it anymore. After all, he might very well be bashing hours of other people's work. And that is not justified because "he so generous to do the reviews for us" or anything. If you give and can't take, you're just hammering the nails of your own coffin.

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Old Post 12-09-02 02:05 #
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magikal
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Jello said:
...Everyone has different opinions, and deathzor was just giving you his opinions as he's supposed to...


Very well said Rellik.
Everyone has different opinions, yes, and other peoples' opinions should be respected. When reviewing you need to take this into account especially when your opinion maybe in the minority.
We went through this crap before with Liam who I know for a fact pissed two people off to the extent that they may never map again.

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Old Post 12-09-02 02:06 #
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Use3D
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Every week the newstuff thread turns into this overblown bitchfest. I really liked Grind2x, so what if it ain't deathz0r's cup of doom tea. Like Enjay said, the downloads are small enough, everyone should just play the maps and make your own decisions. Now can we go on to talking about the maps or how much everyone hates deathz0r? At least y'all can agree that Zort8 is slick.

Cyb, I love your level!

Edit: Oh is it just me or did the page selectors for the forums move to the right of the screen? ;P

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Old Post 12-09-02 02:18 #
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myk
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No it doesn't always turn into a "bitchfest." That depends on the how the reviews are, as I just said. Why should the reviews set a negative focus from the start. In any case an argument can start afterward, sometimes, but if the reviewer flames, expect this. Who's next? I'll say it again with different words if necessary.

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Old Post 12-09-02 02:28 #
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Afterglow
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mustafa saed said:
I hate it when muafuckas bash other peoples hard work
and don't bring shit themselves to the table....cough afterglow....cough.....



Good, because I hate you.

Old Post 12-09-02 03:19 #
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Linguica


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There's a reason that the reviewer's name is attached to his reviews -- because they're his opinions, not the opinions of Doomworld. I've decided to post those opinions on Doomworld every week because people find it interesting. This nonsense about "deathz0r is making Doomworld look bad" is just that: nonsense.

Look, if DOOMWORLD is gonna do reviews, why do 'em so half assed? If you aren't up to doing reviews worthy of being representative of the site, then don't do them.
Representative of what site, Rellik? Of a site that posts Doom news and has some forums where people flame each other? The newstuff news items get more user comments than every other news item that week combined, which means to me that they're the biggest draw. Why would I want to stop that?

Old Post 12-09-02 03:27 #
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Afterglow
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Linguica said:
... Why would I want to stop that?


... because I'll release those suggestive pictures of you and Covaro...

Old Post 12-09-02 03:36 #
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deathz0r
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Linguica said:
There's a reason that the reviewer's name is attached to his reviews -- because they're his opinions, not the opinions of Doomworld. I've decided to post those opinions on Doomworld every week because people find it interesting. This nonsense about "deathz0r is making Doomworld look bad" is just that: nonsense.
I agree entirely with you on this. One person cannot make a site look bad, no matter how much of a shithead he is.

<rant>
People on the forums always judge me as a dick, but whenever they talk to me on IRC or on AIM, they suddenly love me or something. It's always has been like that: people trying do defend their own name in a public place when another person says something bad about a wad they made. The person (who recieved the bad review) go somewhat psycho over it. Get a grip already, it's not like this is front page global news.

To be honest (like I always am), if someone gave my map a bad review, I'd try harder on my next map, not have a sook about it and say that the reviewer is an asshole. If you never try harder, chances are you'll probably never get anywhere.

If you want my opinion on getting better in level making, I suggest that you should make a DM map. They can be simple, a lot easier to make, and featuring fast pasted gameplay in it is quite easy to achieve.
</rant>

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Old Post 12-09-02 04:33 #
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Cyb


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I dunno man. I don't think deathz0r's reviews are so bad :D

Old Post 12-09-02 04:51 #
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Rellik
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One person cannot make a site look bad, no matter how much of a shithead he is.


/me bites tongue......


The newstuff news items get more user comments than every other news item that week combined, which means to me that they're the biggest draw. Why would I want to stop that?


Uhmm, maybe because they aren't commenting on the levels? Unless the point of the Newstuff Chronicals is to see how many ways people can bash Deathzor, it's kinda turning into a weekly joke. If it was all chatter about the levels or other peoples opinions about the level itself, sure. But instead it's all about the reviews themselves. I mean, if it's just attention you want then Deathzor should be taking the vitriolic map-bashing up a notch. ;)

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Old Post 12-09-02 05:11 #
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Hyena
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"...put just a little more effort into the reviews at the forefront of the site"

Now what makes you think he didn't put any effort into them? He does his job. He might be harsh sometimes, but he does what he's supposed to and never half-assed.

"Uhmm, maybe because they aren't commenting on the levels?"

Are you blind? Do you actually see the words next to the screenshots? Did you read them? He does put specifics in there.

"I mean shit, people are gonna come in here and think the place is run by a bunch of kids."

You mean it isn't?
Come on, don't be uptight about how people are going to think when they come in here. I'm not embarrassed that I'm an adult who watches Powerpuff Girls. Why should you be embarrassed that you visit a site where a couple of guys who are trying to be funny say something bad about someone's wad?

Old Post 12-09-02 07:17 #
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nxn
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Little Faith said:
It seems to be missing a patch called SHROOM

I got extras to spare.


Enjay's signature said:
Meek

Look man, there's only room enough for one of us here, and even though I'm not here, I still like to know that there's room for me. So Meep off! =P

Old Post 12-09-02 07:33 #
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Any map featuring imps stoning to crap music is okay in my book.

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Old Post 12-09-02 08:05 #
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mustafa saed
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Afterglow said:


Good, because I hate you.





Well...I love you....as a great map maker that is.
Just don't get pissed off when people put time and
effort in wads.Sure you have your opinion,but you need to
give some constructive criticism.You a grown ass man ain't ya?

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Old Post 12-09-02 15:38 #
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Afterglow
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mustafa saed said:
Well...I love you....as a great map maker that is.
Just don't get pissed off when people put time and
effort in wads.Sure you have your opinion,but you need to
give some constructive criticism.You a grown ass man ain't ya?



English - use it. Signature - it's stupid. I can be pissed off at anything I wish to. I don't need to do anything. What the hell is a grown ass man? It's a game; move on, dork.

Old Post 12-09-02 17:02 #
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kristus
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I didn't know Afterglow was a reviewer now. :p

I've read lots of proffessional reviews in gaming papers through the years (like we all have I'm sure) and here's a few quotes I recall.

"This looks like something a 3 year old kid drew."

"I don't care what <insert name here> say, it's crap an noone should play it."

"This game is crap an noone should buy it."

here's one from a movie review:

"I've always said that Denzel Washington is the worst actor ever, but after seeing this movie I must say Buba Gooding JR are a worthy competitioner for the title."

Judging from that, Deathzor and Hyena make an awesome job, and they don't ever get payed..

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Old Post 12-09-02 17:31 #
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myk
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Oh quit with the reviewer talk, it's a waste of bandwidth and already made me waste my breath. Trolling reviews will get flamed, it's no wonder at all. Plus, who cares what "professional" reviewers do. They are crap payed by the industry for the most part.

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Old Post 12-09-02 17:40 #
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