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Julian


Posts: 2677
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Today, I feel like talking.
Back in the days, before source ports were around, crazy fanatics created a tool that goes by the name Dehacked. As you undoubtedly know, this quite cryptic editor allows the creation of patches that, once applied to our favorite game executable, change the behavior of the engine: insanely fast BFG, entirely new monster sequences, exploding objects everywhere... Dehacked raised extensibility to a new level.
Most source ports tried to stay as compatible as possible with .deh patches and even if they nearly all provide new kind of extensions, Dehacked files are still widely used in the community. Unfortunatly, this was back in the days and we all know a big company that is not really interested in compatibility, don't we? To put it shortly, Dehacked is a DOS program and new versions of Windows are not really DOS-friendly.
So rejoice, because Dennis "Exl" Meuwissen decided to make a Windows-friendly Dehacked clone, Whacked. Of course, this is a work in progress but I wouldn't be surprised if this little program revived the Dehacked craze. Now go and steal frames wherever you can: show the world what a pandora box DOOM can be.

Old Post 12-17-02 18:27 #
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DEMOn
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http://www.anycities.com/user/doomer34/index.html from Newdoom.com news no less is worth noting. I don't know it's scope beyond the ftp archive dehs.. or MBF/fusion bex files.

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Old Post 12-17-02 19:11 #
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Little Faith
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Yeees! Mercy exists!

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Old Post 12-17-02 19:12 #
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Fredrik


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Heh, fun!

Old Post 12-17-02 19:17 #
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VolteFace
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Heh, I made one of these a long time ago, but this one is way better.

Yay.

Old Post 12-17-02 19:58 #
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Scuba Steve


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Got this one a day ago, and liked it. It seems to be lacking thumbnails the original had to see what the entry was. DeHacked was always great for us artists with no programming skill.

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Old Post 12-17-02 20:58 #
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Enjay
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Yeah baby! Groovy! (Ahem)

At last a Dehacked for Windows! If this works well it will be very good news. No mention of support for additional stuff like BEX sections. I guess covering all the port options and keeping compatability and so on would be tough though. (Enjay casts an eye at the flashing LEDs... come on download...)

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Old Post 12-18-02 00:11 #
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Captain Red
Pants


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That is GOOD NEWS! I really hope somebody will work bex serpport into it...

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Old Post 12-18-02 01:31 #
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kain
Banned


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good

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Old Post 12-18-02 02:47 #
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Ichor
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Now, if someone could just do something like this with DCK 3.62...

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Old Post 12-18-02 03:01 #
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Virgil
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Now, if only it'd be done with DMapEdit 4.0... :) Anyway, this is good news. Damnit, I need to start making DehackEd patches again.

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Old Post 12-18-02 05:01 #
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Aardappel
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whats the point of being able to change the exe in windows, which you can then only run in dos (or win9x)?

also, dehacked files are easily applied by windows source ports anyway, without the need for poking around in the exe.

Last but not least, why are people so excited about dehacked in general? almost all (gameplay) modifications made with dehacked in the past sucked hard, the best wads ever made all work with standard doom(2) gameplay.

Old Post 12-18-02 10:44 #
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Fredrik


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Well, you need a program to edit the .deh files. Notepad would be fine if you knew all the 900+ frames in Doom, but I don't, so I can see the usefulness of this.

Old Post 12-18-02 10:49 #
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Captain Red
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Aardappel said:
[nothing worth repeating]

Well, most people nowadays just use the *.deh files that dehacked produces, and don't even bother with changing the exe at all. it is also useful for changing map titles and intermission text with, and I also happen to like using both dehacked and notepad together make mods to save abit of time whan it comes to frame editing.

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Last edited by Captain Red on 12-18-02 at 15:54

Old Post 12-18-02 11:04 #
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Fredrik


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Ct_red_pants said:
Wow. You're an idiot!
Well, that's actually wrong.

Old Post 12-18-02 11:08 #
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Captain Red
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Fine, he’s not to imaginative then.

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Old Post 12-18-02 11:13 #
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NiGHTMARE
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Aardappel said:
the best wads ever made all work with standard doom(2) gameplay.
Umm, no. Perhaps you've never played Batman Doom, the many Wolfendoom wads, Mordeth, Aliens TC, Osiris, Hacx, STRAIN, Massmouth, Obituary, etc, etc? Otherwise I don't see how you could possibly say that.

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Old Post 12-18-02 11:37 #
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Aardappel
Warming Up


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NiGHTMARE said:
Umm, no. Perhaps you've never played Batman Doom, the many Wolfendoom wads, Mordeth, Aliens TC, Osiris, Hacx, STRAIN, Massmouth, Obituary, etc, etc? Otherwise I don't see how you could possibly say that.


Yup, played all of them.

Of those, Mordeth and STRAIN have the best gameplay (to me), afaik Mordeth mainly uses it to replace sprites, not to butcher gameplay.

I have a lot of respect for those who created Batman doom as it looks quite amazing and original, but the gameplay is far below average. Surely you can't say that it has gameplay on the same level as the likes of requiem, HR*, k*doom*, AV, etc etc.?

Old Post 12-18-02 14:30 #
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Aardappel
Warming Up


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Ct_red_pants said:

Wow. You're an idiot!


And proud of it. Wouldn't wanna be intelligent, like you.

Old Post 12-18-02 14:32 #
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Captain Red
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Edit: sorry thought you where someone else...

Ahywho, now that I've got my annual six month random flame out if the way, I don't really understand why a text editor wasn't included... since all it dose is make *.deh files, how difficult would it be to replicate dehacked method. It's kind of an issue, since editing text was what most people used dehacked for.

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Last edited by Captain Red on 12-18-02 at 15:52

Old Post 12-18-02 15:31 #
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NiGHTMARE
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Aardappel said:
Surely you can't say that it has gameplay on the same level as the likes of requiem, HR*, k*doom*, AV, etc etc.?

For anyone who isn't a Doom god, HR has terrible gameplay - personally I don't call a wad where you have to cheat to stand a chance on most levels fun. You can't really use the K*Doom* series as an example either, seeing as many of them actually use DEH patches! :)

Mordeth does indeed alter gameplay quite a lot - there are several new monsters in there after all, not to mention stuff like the flame candle thingies. And as you can probably tell from the Mordeth website, Episode 2 and 3 will alter it even more - for the better.

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Old Post 12-18-02 15:56 #
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Hyena
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I wouldn't use Wolfendoom as an example. It uses absolutely horrid dehacked.
I didn't find anything wrong with Batman Doom, though.

Dehacked is extremely important to me. I plan to use it for several upcoming (secret) projects. If you think it ruins the gameplay, you haven't seen how I use it.

I do have to agree with Aardappel on one thing, though. I don't see so much point in a windows port for dehacked, unless it does amazing new things (which it probably doesn't, considering that it wouldn't work with any of the source ports)
Bex support would be nice, though.

Old Post 12-18-02 16:34 #
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Captain Red
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Hyena said:
I do have to agree with Aardappel on one thing, though. I don't see so much point in a windows port for dehacked, unless it does amazing new things (which it probably doesn't, considering that it wouldn't work with any of the source ports)
Bex support would be nice, though.


aside from the fact that now XP users can use it, it also allows you to use short cuts like cutting and pasting, which is somethig I've always whanted to do in dehacked.

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Old Post 12-18-02 16:44 #
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Rellik
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Dehacked is pretty useful for anyone that wants to really change things. I think anyone that helps modders do whatever they can imagine, instead of what close minded folk want to limit them to, is a hell of a guy. You rock Exl.


I don't really understand why a text editor wasn't included...


Patience, the editor is VERY new and he's got another cool project in the works so he's pretty busy. :)

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Old Post 12-18-02 16:48 #
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DEMOn
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I agree with Aardappel... not all, but most of the best releases don't use any exe changes at all.
proof? http://members.cox.net/opulent/d2spmain.htm

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Old Post 12-18-02 16:50 #
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Rellik
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Who cares about what's released in the past? It has nothing to do with a new editor being created. This is about letting more people do more things with DOOM which is a good thing. Jesus Christ, how can anyone bitch about someone making a new editor? It defies logic.


whats the point of being able to change the exe in windows, which you can then only run in dos (or win9x)?


Because lots of people WANT TO.


also, dehacked files are easily applied by windows source ports anyway, without the need for poking around in the exe.


WTF are you talking about? Whacked makes the patches, it doesn't apply them.


Last but not least, why are people so excited about dehacked in general? almost all (gameplay) modifications made with dehacked in the past sucked hard, the best wads ever made all work with standard doom(2) gameplay.


You can do some amazing things with dehacked, but the dehacked tool sucked and is limited and no longer maintained. Just because in your opinion no good stuff has been made with it, doesn't mean someone won't in the future.

Argh, I understand how people love DOOM and the old school gameplay but some of us modders don't like having our hands tied by the close minded.

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Old Post 12-18-02 21:40 #
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rf`
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Now for someone to open up DCK's source code. :P

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Old Post 12-18-02 22:45 #
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Enjay
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I e-mailed the author with a few thoughts and comments yesterday, and got a very positive upbeat reply, and he's giving consideration to the few suggestions I made.

I have high hopes for WhackEd.

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Old Post 12-19-02 23:17 #
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kristus
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That'll be hard since it's not avalable and DCK still cost money.

Nick: you forgot to mention Ni'mrod and Phobia. . . :p

I wouldn't go as far as saying a dehacked patch have improved Gameplay. But it have changed it to something equally good.

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Old Post 12-19-02 23:19 #
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Jon
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DEH modification should really have been replaced with someone a lot more powerful and standardised after the source came out. If some baseline port like boom/prboom decided to export _all_ game-specific tables from the engine, then we could write much more powerful stuff and not have to rely on .deh anymore. You could also avoid a lot of the hairy legal issues that legacy and zdoom are in, with support for non GPLed games like heretic, hexen and strife.

I think a more modern editor is a good idea - its a shame its a closed source, VB-thus-windows-only affair.

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Old Post 12-22-02 13:45 #
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