The /newstuff Chronicles #172

I played CyberArmy on UV and didn't have a problem.

'Twas a good WAD, and I hope to see more of it in the future.

Grazza said:

In brief: I think this type of "IMO" is very useful

I just like saying IMO to clarify that I hold other people's opinions in the same regard as my own, and the omission of it makes statements sound far too matter-of-fact, as if the speaker was the only authority on the issue. I for one would read statements like "The map is too dark" and "I found the map to be too dark for my taste" very differently, and would probably find the former comment somewhat arrogant and hence annoying.

In short, I feel IMO makes it more clear that the statement is meant as a matter of personal taste which could be easily disputed.

IMO is required, no two ways about it.

IMO it's not required. Seeing it as a requirement only makes all the speakers overly mild due to the pressure coming from the demand. Like any verbal artifice it's best used with discrimination, or else it becomes excess luggage and a jaded constraint. Especially if it always shows up as "in my opinion," when there's a thousand ways to say such things.

Grazza has a point, and it shows up that way on The Ultimate DooMer's use, where it is obviously preceding an appended opinion which is even in parenthesis to emphasize.

"IMO" is a term people use when they want to express their point-of-view without sounding like an asshole. It tends to say: "I have this idea but don't take my suggestion seriously" or "I'm too spineless to stand by my beliefs." Someone who wants to express conviction and surety in their suggestion would not use the term "IMO", but rather something like "It's that simple" or "That's just the way it is".

In other words, it's a waste of text. Like emoticons.

You're both wrong. It's required!

IMO is like saying "this is what I think, its not there to be contested. If you agree, you agree, if you dont, I dont care. On with the subject that we were actually talking about"

Theres a difference between keeping your own opinions, and trying to force them at any given moment. Everyone has an opinion, thats a given. Some people just want to state their opinion without arguing about it. That is why the 'spineless defensive' use of IMO is there - because those who use it dont really care what other people think, they are perfectly entitled to hold their own opinion without coming under scrutiny.

Damn you bloodshedder.

See how we are arguing about superfluous things just because I made an assertive statement.

Bastet Furry said:

CyberArmy, nice maps with a little problem: Ammo.

cyber-menace, i would apriciate it if you could either decrease the monsters or hugely increase the ammo on the Reactormap. I was out of ammo getting to the health center with a baron in my back.
And i am not the thyson type with a baron ;)
"give ammo" did the trick for now, but i want to finish a map without cheating, so look after it.

And for the rooftop, THATS what i would call a cyberdemon ^.^
Nice, big target.
But for this level too, way to less ammo for the bossfight.
IMO you should script it so that the rest of the cybis dies when the big one is gone.

If you didn't have enough ammo on MAP20 that shows me something, considering you get 4 Full Loads of ammo to take down 35 measly enemies. I've played that map many times and have NEVER had to teleport back in all three times on the last group. Tip: Always save one teleport for when you want to take out "you know who".

Now as for MAP19... I swear I put a beserk pack or two in obvious places but maybe those were for deathmatch or something... even so I test all of my maps out on UV and don't have any trouble. There are "NO" secret ammo supplies in the whole first section except for a backpack in the vents, but that doesn't make much difference. The map requires stratagy in order to clear places for more ammo. Look around in rooms you have cleared it will help, and think about how much ammo it takes to kill something. I've long since memorized the weapon of choice on the monsters. Despite all of this I probably will add a little more ammo in that area. I meant for the ammo to be tight on UV and not excessive, but perhaps I should add just a little more for the more wasteful people. Tip: Use your fist on demons of any color, even without a berserk. Chances are you won't get bitten and you will safe lots of ammo.

Well I think that concludes this speech...

EDIT: IMO "IMO" is best to be used so everyone (even some of the dumber newbs) can know it IS your opinion. I've seen some pretty bad displays of intelligence when someone asked what I was talking about when I didn't use it... but it certainly isn't mandatory!

"IMO" use depends on context. In a situation where the rest of the post is factual or cited, a personal opinion might come across as fact and something should differentiate the writer's opinion from the rest.

In a review, I'd hope everyone would realize that any subjective statement is the opinion of the reviewer. Saying there are 128 monsters in a room is an objective statement--it's true (or they're wrong) but saying there are "too many monsters" in the room is a subjective opinion. Subjective opinions may be argued, but only by use of other subjective opinions, really.

When in doubt, it's easy enough to say, "I thought there were too many monsters as I played through that room" and be done with it.

That's just IMHO :)

Apologies for missing those maps out, I think the dates threw me off. I was more concerned about the newstuff getting there (I'm in the library again cos my modem stopped working. I wasn't too confident it had gotten here cos I had to mail it from floppy)

Bastet Furry said:

CyberArmy, nice maps with a little problem: Ammo.

cyber-menace, i would apriciate it if you could either decrease the monsters or hugely increase the ammo on the Reactormap. I was out of ammo getting to the health center with a baron in my back.
And i am not the thyson type with a baron ;)
"give ammo" did the trick for now, but i want to finish a map without cheating, so look after it.

cyber-menace said:

Now as for MAP19... I swear I put a beserk pack or two in obvious places but maybe those were for deathmatch or something...

The single release of this map had a couple of extra berserk packs in them (after I voiced my concern in a PM) but this version seems to have lost them again. Still, I think there's more ammo than there was in the single version, and it's enough to reach the berserk at which point the red mist sets in. (and those health pads means it's a really viable tactic, too) And of course you won't need them in the full megawad anyway. (and I don't think there'll be anyone recording demos on it because it's for ZDoom - I hope this megawad doesn't get underrated when it's released because of the lack of demo compatibility, as despite the obvious influences in the maps it deserves to be highly rated IMO)

Bloodshedder said:

Why bother saying IMO? We know this is your opinion.

Because I remember all those newstuff flamewars when deathz0r and Hyena were spouting personal opinions in their reviews, and getting flamed constantly for being subjective, opinionated etc. so I made clear that it was my opinion to avoid a similar fate. (although the chances of that are much less of course)

I just took a look at it, and somehow the two extra berserk packs I added were removed. I'll probably add one or two more to MAP19 afterwards. Right now I'm racking my brain for getting more ideas for MAP21. Sometimes building without plotting first can be difficult.

The mere concept of a review demands that at least part of it be opinion. Without any subjective statements, it is only a description. Plus, it's very easy to tell the difference between the subjective and objective statements. People flaming over Hyena's and deathz0r's reviews seemed to have a problem acknowledging that the reviewers' opinions may not have been the "norm."

These reviews are merely what one person thinks of a map. However, it is a good idea to have a person who is able to separate the objective from the subjective and write good reviews. (Quality-wise, not "good" as in giving everything a "good" review.)

Bloodshedder said:

However, it is a good idea to have a person who is able to separate the objective from the subjective and write good reviews.

Werd. Unfortunately, not all professional reviewers (at least not those I've conversated with) seem to get it.

What made Deathz0r's reviews unpopular in my opinions were:

1. They were not service-minded. Deathz0r seemed to be more eager to pass judgement than to describe. Many of his wads were mere summary dismissals that were almost useless to the viewer.

2. They were flame-filled. While it is totally ok to say a bad wad is a bad wad Deathz0r often took it a step further and used the DW frontpage to hurl insults at various people. This is of course unacceptable.

3. They were narcissistic. Deathz0r had the somewhat silly idea that people who read the /newstuff chronicles were more interested in him than the wads and he would often use the writing space to allude to his own genius and "elite-ness".


The fact that he were opinionated, such as his crusade against symmetrical deathmatch wads were less a problem.

cyber-menace said:

If you didn't have enough ammo on MAP20 that shows me something, considering you get 4 Full Loads of ammo to take down 35 measly enemies. I've played that map many times and have NEVER had to teleport back in all three times on the last group. Tip: Always save one teleport for when you want to take out "you know who".

There my only problem is the cyberdemon wave :-/ Second give ammo wasted.
Just put some spare ammo in there for the lower skill levels, i played on HMP.

cyber-menace said:

Now as for MAP19... I swear I put a beserk pack or two in obvious places but maybe those were for deathmatch or something... even so I test all of my maps out on UV and don't have any trouble. There are "NO" secret ammo supplies in the whole first section except for a backpack in the vents, but that doesn't make much difference. The map requires stratagy in order to clear places for more ammo. Look around in rooms you have cleared it will help, and think about how much ammo it takes to kill something. I've long since memorized the weapon of choice on the monsters. Despite all of this I probably will add a little more ammo in that area. I meant for the ammo to be tight on UV and not excessive, but perhaps I should add just a little more for the more wasteful people. Tip: Use your fist on demons of any color, even without a berserk. Chances are you won't get bitten and you will safe lots of ammo.

I have picked up every ammopack that i found, even thysoned a red demon, but got slaughtered by a baron who came around the corner after i killed one of the demons.

Naja, i hope there will be more ammo for range combat freaks like me when you come to the final release ;)

So Long, The Werelion!

I had been campaigning for deathz0r's firing for a long time

Linguica said in /newstuff 106 after deathz0rs reviews:
Remember, if you want to do /newstuff reviews you can just email me a sample review and I'll add you to the list.

lolzolzozlzl I thought that was hilarious

Epyo said:

lolzolzozlzl I thought that was hilarious

<deathz0r> ling unloser me, else i'll give a bad review of your cc2 map
<Linguica> you give a bad review of everything
<Linguica> i am member #1 of the fire deathzor association

Bloodshedder said:

These reviews are merely what one person thinks of a map. However, it is a good idea to have a person who is able to separate the objective from the subjective and write good reviews.

These two sentences seem contradictory to me. I agree with the second, but disagree with the first: a review should not be "merely what one person thinks of a map". I believe (and hope) that the current team of reviewers provide a good enough blend of description and opinion to help readers decide which wads will suit them best. (The reader is the person who matters most in a review.)

I agree that using "IMO" is just one way to show that a comment is indicating a personal preference. I tend to say things like "I found the ammo supply to be very tight" or "the design is a little plain here and there, but this didn't spoil my enjoyment of the map". Having said that, UD only used "IMO" twice in this article, which is hardly excessive repetition.

Linguica said:

&lt;deathz0r&gt; ling unloser me, else i'll give a bad review of your cc2 map
&lt;Linguica&gt; you give a bad review of everything
&lt;Linguica&gt; i am member #1 of the fire deathzor association

Heh. So he's found a way of reviewing your map despite his ip ban then...

Deathz0r didn't give a bad review to my demo. That was enough to knock me off my feet...

Yeah what's everyone's problem with deathzor anyways, he gave good reviews to zort08 and massm_do so I have no issues with him :P

I gather whoever was supposed to do newstuff #173 either forgot, didn't have time, or was simply too lazy? :)

Ty Halderman said:
* "don't have time"=="can't be arsed" in UKspeak :)

You are british..? Then I can, like, reach out and almost touch you! o_O

NiGHTMARE said:

I gather whoever was supposed to do newstuff #173 either forgot, didn't have time, or was simply too lazy? :)

...or the archive was unavailable. At least it was all weekend, for me anyway.

No, that just means less to review this week (only the upload server has been unavailable). And, presumably, more for the poor sod doing it next week. :(

And if you all don't happen to be chronic procrastinators, you'll have plenty of time to review them all next week.

Sigh....another week's waiting....Hopefully by then I'll have my Heretic map finished and uploaded, but I dunno.

Ichor said:

And if you all don't happen to be chronic procrastinators, you'll have plenty of time to review them all next week.

Well, actually it seems I'll have at least a day less than usual, since I normally start playing the wads on the Monday, and then as they appear.

My comment related to the fact that #174 can be expected to contain more than a normal week's worth of wads, since no one has been able to upload since last Thursday or so.

The last I heard, #173 should be coming soon.

Mordeth said:

You are british..? Then I can, like, reach out and almost touch you! o_O

I think he was just translating to Brit speak. He's definitely not British, as I can tell from the times that he updates the archives. (ie. when I'm asleep)

The Ultimate DooMer said:

I think he was just translating to Brit speak. He's definitely not British, as I can tell from the times that he updates the archives. (ie. when I'm asleep)

I could be British even if I don't live in England. I like being enigmatic. And besides, I update at all sorts of times, other than while I'm at work. I sleep erratically.

And the archives are back up for uploading, and as of about an hour ago the automated processes are running. So when I get home tonight (about 23:00 GMT) I'll get new uploads moved to newstuff. Or maybe I should wait until sunrise... somewhere.