Problems at id?

gemini09 said:

John fired his own brother?

John and Adrian aren't related.

TheDarkArchon said:

John and Adrian aren't related.

Thats what i said some posts earlier.
Get yer ass to Fielmann or some other glasses selling thingaboo ;)

gatewatcher said:

Just to digress, if I were entitled to $40 million I would stab people to make sure I got it, I think he's got beef. I know $11 mil is a lot, but $40 sounds so much better.

Agreed. I'd do my best to get my hands on what I felt I was due to me as well. But I wouldn't expect anyone else to particularly care about it. Not saying Carmack (A) expects me to care either BTW.


Hmmm, Carmack. It's not that common a surname. What are the chances of 2 guys called Carmack ending up both working at the same small company eh? That always struck me as quite funny.

I was talking about this again with someone last night - the articles are assuming id rejected the offer because it was too low. Maybe they rejected it cause they simply did not want to sell? If that's the case, then Adrian acting up and crying for his dollars is severely disloyal on his part and proves he has sadly become a liability. I don't blame the other guys for turning on him if that was how it played out.

We really don't know enough about the specifics of how this went down. Nor should we trust the media to report them accurately. There is more to this story we are not getting.

EDIT: Wobbo, I am not going to bother replying to you. You have repeatedly demonstrated in the past your utter and complete inability to comprehend someone else's viewpoint, rendering any attempts at discussion about as productive as me trying to get Jessica Biel's phone number.

doom2day said:

The news left me so depressed yesterday it was creepy.

this whole THREAD is depressing. i wound up making myself feel very down yesterday, especially when i came to certain realizations about the company i spent so much of my adolescence with.

This is both good and bad news as fas I can see.

The good news is that id still clearly thinks it's not time to hang up the keyboards and mice just yet and they want to take their original titles into further development in their own way rather than let Activision completely take the reins (and rights, profits).

This means those four must have some pretty good faith in themselves still after 14 years. After all, the industry could not have changed much more in that time. I like that.

Adrian though obviously has had enough, and that's a shame because it may be short-sighted, he may want to pursue other objectives though. That's OK, but he's making himself look selfish and losing friends over this. If I could speak to him I'd say Adrian, is it worth it?

and he'd say '$40 MILLION?!?! Pritch, I would eat my first born child for $40 million. Raw. No garnish.'

pritch said:
Adrian though obviously has had enough, and that's a shame because it may be short-sighted, he may want to pursue other objectives though.

It seems like from the start he was an artist that simply got sucked into game design; at least he got to do gory stuff which is what he prefers. Being a millionaire already he was probably annoyed at the id pressures and the artistic limitations imposed by game game development.

That's OK, but he's making himself look selfish and losing friends over this. If I could speak to him I'd say Adrian, is it worth it?

The id guys have always been pretty straightforward in business, even among themselves; he seems to have been boxed out and probably considers he's been cheated of part of what he earned through the years, having been up to now one of the two main owners of id.

Plus I don't think he ever cared about his reputation too much; he just does his thing. The only reason we know of this is because it somehow got out (eventually to the Wall Street Journal.)

myk said:

It seems like from the start he was an artist that simply got sucked into game design; at least he got to do gory stuff which is what he prefers. Being a millionaire already he was probably annoyed at the id pressures and the artistic limitations imposed by game game development.

The id guys have always been pretty straightforward in business, even among themselves; he seems to have been boxed out and probably considers he's been cheated of part of what he earned through the years, having been up to now one of the two main owners of id.

Plus I don't think he ever cared about his reputation too much; he just does his thing. The only reason we know of this is because it somehow got out (eventually to the Wall Street Journal.)

John Carmack ahs always been about business. I'm not so sure about the other guys. the other guys get boners over the technology that John makes and make games with it, and feel bad when it comes time for the need to fire someone. John Carmack forced Romero out, and forced Tom Hall out, and I'm sure that he's the one that forced Adrian out. people were all a little anrgy when Carmack forced Romero out, but after we saw just how unprofessional Romero was, we were all praising Carmack. I'm sure thats how it will be this time as well.

Sooner or later, we're going to realize that this was for the best. It always is.

Zeroth said:

but after we saw just how unprofessional Romero was, we were all praising Carmack.

I wasn't. Unprofessional or not, Romero gave id a lot of its balls. Romero had vision and was a big part of what turned Carmack's 1s and 0s into entertainment. Is it just coincidence that their games increasingly became stale technology demos once Romero was gone?

Enjay said:

I wasn't. Unprofessional or not, Romero gave id a lot of its balls. Romero had vision and was a big part of what turned Carmack's 1s and 0s into entertainment. Is it just coincidence that their games increasingly became stale technology demos once Romero was gone?

I'm afraid I might have to agree with you. Romer was responsible for Deathmatch in Doom, and Pushwalls in Wolfenstein, but Carmack jsut got fed up with Romero trying to push the games more than anyone else was. If Romero had his way, the games would have been titled "John Romero's Wolfenstein" and "John Romero's Doom", no pun intended.

Romero isn't a bad guy, he's just greedy, chilish, imaginitive, and untrustworthy. quite a mix. Romero would have done well giving input for games, but not guiding the production of them, let me not speak of Daikatana.

I think you've hit the nail on the head as regards id's early success. There was a mixture of personalities. That always has the potential for greatness (because you get the complete package of talent) or disaster (no on can get along). Of course, as could probably be expected we eventually had both.

id was, is, definitely worse off without Romero and Hall. Romero, yes, is clearly a bit of playboy, but he has unquestionable talent and creativity. Hall always seemed a hardworker and innovative problem solver.

Those talents married with J Carmacks as you've already laid out and Adrian's obvious talents were great, plus never forget Kevin Cloud and Donna 'the id mum'.

God suddenly I'm getting nostalgiac heh.

But as regards to where dn and myk were saying about Adrian now, yeah valid points, I just think he signed up for his current role in id and sometimes you should take on the territory that comes with that. Tough one though. Definitely a personal thing, I just hope they remain friends somehow.

i was wondering that even though activision probably wont buy out id, if they were to, wouldn't that rip off the id labels on all previously published id games and stamp activision on them? And, i would not accept any "Activision doom 4 lollerz we 04n id best game eva bitches" crap. To me, if they were to make a doom 4 not made by id, it would be 1, 2, 3, and some other game that sucked ass and didnt deserve the doom logo. i hope id stays id, but i think an id-made doom 4 would be interesting, even though that will never happen if id stays id.

DooMer87 said:

i was wondering that even though activision probably wont buy out id, if they were to, wouldn't that rip off the id labels on all previously published id games and stamp activision on them? And, i would not accept any "Activision doom 4 lollerz we 04n id best game eva bitches" crap. To me, if they were to make a doom 4 not made by id, it would be 1, 2, 3, and some other game that sucked ass and didnt deserve the doom logo. i hope id stays id, but i think an id-made doom 4 would be interesting, even though that will never happen if id stays id.

Doom 4 would be pointless anyway. Doom is doom, it originaly didn't have a stor to begin with, just a bunch of ideas thrown at a cool new engine-in-the-works. check out the doom bible -- doom is NOTHING like it was originally planned, as by Tom Hall. In saying that, doom has proved itsef as it should be proven, we need no further doomage. the story should not continue, as that would, to me, ruin the doom story altogeter: Mars, Hell, Survivow maal. ny times can you go to mars and be surprised that demons invaded and you need to survive? "Opps, I did it again!"

If there ever will be a Doom 4, it will be on a photo realistic engine, and will be a remake of Doom 3 and Doom 1, with new levels and probably some added story elements. that would be hott. very hott.

So what? Are you saying people won't buy it because it's got a lame storyline? Doom3 had a terrible story, but people will buy it because it's Doom.

And as far as what Doom 4 would be, you have no idea, none, you're only guessing.

Zeroth said:

ny times can you go to mars and be surprised that demons invaded and you need to survive? "Opps, I did it again!"

Actually, I'm working on an introductory story for a level that does just that. It's set on Earth, not Mars, but explains how the demons might invade without the UAC screwing with portals.

Its sad to see things like this happen, but I'm certainly glad id isn't being sold. Though I was initially annoyed at Adrian Carmack for apparently trying to sell the company out for his own benefit at the cost of his co-workers (and the fans probably), I'll probably never know the whole story until "The Masters of Doom 2" gets written (if ever).

As far as id's decline goes, it certainly seems noticable how many companies are now licensing Unreal Tech instead of id's tech. Although I enjoyed Doom 3 and it scared the hell out of me in places, Half-Life 2 was overall a better game (aside from Steam & related issues).

I'm glad they "farmed" Quake 4 out to Raven. I like Raven games and it frees id up to make that new franchise.

Anyone know what stakes the other co-owners have at id? I was surprised that Adrian had a rather large 41%. Since he, Kevin Cloud and John Carmark are founders, I figured they'd have large stakes, but how'd he get that much?

Zeroth said:

Doom 4 would be pointless anyway. Doom is doom, it originaly didn't have a stor to begin with, just a bunch of ideas thrown at a cool new engine-in-the-works. check out the doom bible -- doom is NOTHING like it was originally planned, as by Tom Hall. In saying that, doom has proved itsef as it should be proven, we need no further doomage. the story should not continue, as that would, to me, ruin the doom story altogeter: Mars, Hell, Survivow maal. ny times can you go to mars and be surprised that demons invaded and you need to survive? "Opps, I did it again!"

If there ever will be a Doom 4, it will be on a photo realistic engine, and will be a remake of Doom 3 and Doom 1, with new levels and probably some added story elements. that would be hott. very hott.

Tom Hall wanted 6 episodes, cutscenes, different names of weapons that we arent familiar with, a "PR" rating on the box which stood for parental restriction, and lots of blood and gore. And, regarding doom 4, I believe it would have quite an engine. And, they would make an added storyline to the main doom storyline. I would like to see zd_4wayctf made in the doom 3 engine. If you don't play zdaemon, you dont know what im talkin about.

Actually, sure some of Tom Hall's ideas didn't make it to DOOM (it would have been more like ROTT) but it did have 6 episodes: DOOM II is episodes 4-6.

DooMer87 said:

Tom Hall wanted 6 episodes, cutscenes, different names of weapons that we arent familiar with, a "PR" rating on the box which stood for parental restriction, and lots of blood and gore. And, regarding doom 4, I believe it would have quite an engine. And, they would make an added storyline to the main doom storyline. I would like to see zd_4wayctf made in the doom 3 engine. If you don't play zdaemon, you dont know what im talkin about.

Yeah, a lot of Hall's ideas were great, but then again a lot of them were bogus. imagine cutscenes in the original doom engine....heh. have you seen the bayonett on the end of the rifle in one of the doom alphas? I didn't like it.ay, anyway, yeah, I used to play zdaemon a lot, but I've never played the level you mention.

Zeroth said:

Yeah, a lot of Hall's ideas were great, but then again a lot of them were bogus. imagine cutscenes in the original doom engine....heh. have you seen the bayonett on the end of the rifle in one of the doom alphas? I didn't like it.ay, anyway, yeah, I used to play zdaemon a lot, but I've never played the level you mention.

The level is about 2 weeks old...very new and stunning architecture, but in some places its got too much. But tom wanted too much...i mean, the doom alphas weren't that great. But they made the game way better before the final version and im happy about that. But in screenshots of the alpha, there are marines around you. I really wish that on Nightmare that you could have 2 marines and stuff that could kill monsters, chat, and stuff. I get lonely in single player. But, that's why they invented the BOT for online. Anywho, for Zdaemon, my name there is [MAG]DooMer87. Yes, i am a part of that dead clan. Bah, but im not sure about Id's future. It's a good thing the engine creator for Doom, John Carmack, wasnt fired. Imagine they made a mistake and fired the wrong guy...intresting.

DooMer87 said:

But in screenshots of the alpha, there are marines around you.

If I recall correctly, the alphas that you can PLAY are on doomworld, and in one you start the level next to the table with playing cards on it.

Zeroth said:
the alphas that you can PLAY are on doomworld,

The DOOM alphas aren't hosted here. There was a joke link to them for back when people were looking for the DOOM 3 alphas, and the idgames database naturally includes them as they are hosted at idgames.

The marines appearing in the alpha were for MultiPlayer games, or if they would have appeared in single player games they would have been rather static (cutscenes, etc.)