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MartinHowe
Junior Member


Posts: 116
Registered: 04-02


OK, my 2p worth on Sapphire, having just played it to see what all the fuss is about! Good - use of cool new textures, lava and other liquids behind walls. Good - feel of a space station. Bad - lack of decent weapon set (not a problem for me of course :) ). Bad - not enough variety of monsters and an overpowered boss (though a cool boss in itself; would be good at end of an entire episode). Good - better-than average architecture. Bad - too repetitive use of it, though that is realism, so not strictly a problem. Gameplay not too good. For me, overall 6.5/10.

EDIT: Also a BIG HOM in GZDoom software mode, not sure whose fault that is.

EDIT:

Speaking as one who is in the middle of making a large architecture-and-effects driven WAD, it is probably worth noting that if one is going for "realism" (assuming one can, when fighting John Romero's head in a huge pit full of demons from Hell) then gameplay will inevitably suffer, unless care is taken to ensure that the player feels truly immersed in the situation.

The approach that has worked best so far in WADs that do this is to have a lot of things to do, especially things that "do stuff", especially if some of them cause harm to monsters. For example, if there is a lava pit in a power plant, having a hatch open and a clutch of demons running towards you can't stop and fall in and burn. For another, if there is a rocket on a launch pad, a la DN3D, wait until the cyberdemon is standing underneath it, then hit the "launch" button. Also a reasonable quantity of non-stock monsters helps to add variety. Have the scenery include working machinery that actually does what it is supposed to do, for example a car-crushing plant that will actually output a lump of flesh on a conveyor belt if a Demon falls into it.

Just keep the player interested with stuff to do as well as stuff to kill -- and include several things that do both.

Last edited by MartinHowe on 05-24-06 at 12:48

Old Post 05-23-06 23:58 #
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Hobbs
Banned


Posts: 1096
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More like massive hom.

Old Post 05-24-06 01:22 #
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Checkmate
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Posts: 83
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pritch said:
What I'm less keen on is people rushing to the aid of whoever's side they perceive to be on. The thing is, there are no sides here. There are only mappers, and reviewers, and ultimately the exchange is between them.


Pritch - What set off such a reaction was the way his review was phrased. Would your advisor have told that author his book 'sucked'? Not that we expect reviewers to be academics, just use a little common sense and don't be needlessly provocative. Does anyone think there would have been this kind of response if he gave the map a '1 out of 10'?

Old Post 05-24-06 01:47 #
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mystic
Sorry folks!


Posts: 185
Registered: 03-02


Im thinking if deathzor hadnt insulted torms wad it probably wouldnt have been noticed by half as many people, it was the first one I downloaded and i think its fine, I like good looking maps with straightforward gameplay.

Given the choice I would prefer a nasty review which causes a big argument rather than a rave review that everyone ignores.

I agree with a lot of what enjay says, both he and myself have been victims of bad reviews in the past and it hasnt stopped us making more wads, we make them for ourselves then choose to inflict them on the community.

Old Post 05-24-06 08:11 #
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dethtoll
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Posts: 492
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if you put it that way, maybe torm should welcome the publicity.

Old Post 05-24-06 08:14 #
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Mordeth
Administrator


Posts: 1704
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Graf Zahl said:
Why is everybody ignoring that this whole idiotic discussion started not because deathz0r gave Sapphire a bad review (which is his good right), but because he used language which is inappropriate for a serious review?


Agreed. Which is also exactly what I don't like to see in reviews. But I didn't see "inappropriate language" in this particular review, since deathzor quite specifically named what he didn't like about this DM level. Mind, I would not do it the same way and limit myself naming the good and bad points to leave the final judgement up to the reader.

Oh, and can the namecalling please stop guys, before spankage ensues?

Old Post 05-24-06 09:09 #
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pritch
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Checkmate said:


Pritch - What set off such a reaction was the way his review was phrased. Would your advisor have told that author his book 'sucked'? Not that we expect reviewers to be academics, just use a little common sense and don't be needlessly provocative. Does anyone think there would have been this kind of response if he gave the map a '1 out of 10'?


If what you are saying were advocated in the media at large, the resulting clamour would, I believe, be "Censorship ahoy".

Frankly, I would be more satisfied with a short review written in bad or broken English than one where I felt the reviewer could not give the most honest reaction that he wanted to give.

Being "needlessly provocative" is a very difficult thing to judge. Personally, I don't agree with you this time, but if someone thus reviewed does feel that way the best thing to do is not to be provoked.

And I bet that is how said author in my example from real life feels now that he's had a caution for aggravated assault ;)

Old Post 05-24-06 12:20 #
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Naan
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Posts: 192
Registered: 10-05


W00t a Heretic WAD again for this week !

Old Post 05-24-06 15:04 #
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Darkfyre
Member


Posts: 404
Registered: 11-02



AlexMax said:
I guess your levels "aren't for critics". ;)


http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/24

Hehe. Thought i had to share given the comment :)

Old Post 05-29-06 10:01 #
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POTGIESSER
Senior Member


Posts: 1311
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Yikes, Dramastuff Chronicles #277.
I go back to my analogy of comparing Deathz0r to Simon Cowell of American Idol. Both are extremely critical, blunt, and condescending. Both are this way to get a rise out of people, and for entertainment value.

I myself, got around to playing these:

Sapphire was a very pretty map. Gameplay wasn't the greatest, but still enjoyable. If it had a better layout it would have played as great as it looked.

Neodoom, cracked out, over the top, lotsa fun!

Dominus Hyacinthus De Archangelis: Felt to me like a Deus Vult Parody. Fun in a strange way.

Spaceship 1024: Very cool map, played as great as it looked.

Thief: Nice to see Heretic maps. This one kicked. My invisible hat goes off to Enjay.

Old Post 05-30-06 18:39 #
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Wobbo
Of course, I could be wrong


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Nightmare is right on target, I honestly cant see how anyone can call his response idiotic, I agree 100%


Bloodshedder said:
So someone disagrees with deathz0r. Not like it's never happened before. The reviewers' job isn't to ensure people always agree with them.

But a reviewers job *IS* to attempt to give an objective analisys that serves as a guide for OTHERS and not himself.
A reviewer in ANY medium should go over the qualities of the work, focusing on things that might be of interest. The whole point of a review is to let you know wether a map is worth downloading or not.
Saying "this maps sucks" without backing it up is not a "review" at all

Thsi is not the first time Deathz0r has done an unsatisfactory job with reviewing .wads - someone else should replace him if he doesnt step his game up

Last edited by Wobbo on 06-02-06 at 08:06

Old Post 06-02-06 07:59 #
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Darkfyre
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Posts: 404
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Wobbo said:
...someone else should replace him if he doesnt step his game up


Although I agree with the what you said about not being too objective (and definitely more so as what I stated way back in this thread), reviewers 'are' just providing a service to the community out of their own time. Usually I find Deathz0r's blunt rudeness quite funny especially given some of the real steamers that pop up in there (sometimes he's not even harsh enough), this is really the first time I've felt he's gone the wrong way.

Of course the two people that havn't gone all out over this review are infact Deathz0r and Tormentor, so I guess hopefully everyone's gotten the statements for their standings out and we can move on with our Dooming lives. :)

Hopefully this thread isn't still up top come Newstuff #280 :p

Old Post 06-02-06 08:47 #
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kristus
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Posts: 6359
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Did any of you who claim he didn't back it up even read the review or did you just jump on the whine train?

Deathzor's review of Sapphire is stating exactly why he think the map suck.

Old Post 06-02-06 18:46 #
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Darkfyre
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But arn't you infact, also whining?
All aboard! Last whine train to oblivion.

Old Post 06-02-06 23:39 #
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dethtoll
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Posts: 492
Registered: 05-04


it's not so much what he said, it's how he said it. sure, he backs it up, but there's a line between being objective and sounding like an asshole.

Old Post 06-02-06 23:40 #
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Xenphire
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This retarded discussion is STILL going on? Christ.

Old Post 06-02-06 23:56 #
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Bloodshedder
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I actually agree with you. This has run out of steam.

Old Post 06-03-06 00:45 #
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