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Hobbs
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AlexMax said:
Plus Tormentor and NiGHTMARE are good at being whiny little bitches.

Orly? Y I nevar would haev guessed.

I can't wait until KDiZD comes across my hard drive.

HEH. Neither can I.
Old Post 10-10-06 20:50 #
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deathz0r
Bitch fuckin' stole me chaingun!


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Schneelocke said:
This, on the other hand, seems a bit unfair - that's kinda like taking a windows program that someone gives you, trying to install it on windows 3.1, and then complaining it doesn't work.
A valid point. The answer to that is because ZDaemon still uses ZDoom 1.23 b33 (although with a rather bastardised ACS support). Note that I did mention "ZDoom-based" and not just "ZDoom" as I'll probably just assume 2.1.5 with that.
Old Post 10-10-06 22:03 #
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myk
The Disciple of Lüt


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Bloodshedder said:
Originally, deathz0r said ZDoom 1.22, and after I called him a retard, he said change it to 1.23b33. I think the latest version, or even 63a, would be a better choice.
I'd say the latest version not branded as "beta" (2.1.6 seems to apply) for new wads, but if it's clear the wad was made a while back and then uploaded an older version might apply. Still, it's up to the ZDoom wad author to specify with what versions it was tested under, otherwise it may turn out buggy with any other versions. The reviewer won't be trying the wad in a dozen versions, in any case.

Quasar said:
Maybe the wads should be fixed and reuploaded, then they could be reviewed for real. As a source port author, I am also very tired of the false compatibility statements.
Agreed, but in the author's defense, they say "Tested with: ZDoom/GZDoom", so I don't think these wads should have been nonreviewed because of this. Their gross bug (incompatibility with the aimed engine model) should be clearly noted, maybe in bold type or capital letters, but unless it doesn't say what they were tested with, they should not be dumped without a review. Had the TXTs not said "reviewed with" I would have agreed with a nonreview, but these uploads are NOT that case.
Old Post 10-10-06 22:05 #
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Quasar
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Yes but I think we've established that using ZDoom to test for BOOM compatibility is not appropriate. ZDoom changes some things to (in most cases) work better, but this can break some maps. If you're going to say BOOM-compatible, test it in something that's really close to BOOM. Otherwise just don't say that at all.
Old Post 10-10-06 22:09 #
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myk
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Quasar said:
Yes but I think we've established that using ZDoom to test for BOOM compatibility is not appropriate.
Hence the text file is specifying what it is guaranteed to work with, and that there may be problems using actual Boom engines. Someone could test a (supposedly Boom) wad under Prboom with compatibility level 9 or Eternity and yet it could fail to load on Boom itself, because Boom lacks some fixes or expansions these apply. On the other hand, when it does not even state what it was tested with, the player is left in the dark as to how to make it work, and might have to test with more than one additional engine before an appropriate one is found.
Old Post 10-10-06 22:22 #
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Schneelocke
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deathz0r said:
A valid point. The answer to that is because ZDaemon still uses ZDoom 1.23 b33 (although with a rather bastardised ACS support). Note that I did mention "ZDoom-based" and not just "ZDoom" as I'll probably just assume 2.1.5 with that.


Ah, OK... that makes sense, then. :)
Old Post 10-10-06 22:24 #
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Scuba Steve


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ZDoom should, for all intents and purposes, be backwards compatible with every ZDoom map made. If it doesn't work, then it's most likely a bug and you should be reporting it on the ZDoom forums. This is also why I think just saying "ZDoom" should necessitate use of the most recent release... if your map doesn't work with the most recent ZDoom, you're using an older version that you should indicate, or you need to report a bug to Randy.
Old Post 10-10-06 22:35 #
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Belial
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Scuba Steve said:
ZDoom should, for all intents and purposes, be backwards compatible with every ZDoom map made.

You are living in a dream world.
Old Post 10-10-06 22:38 #
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Schneelocke
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Belial said:

You are living in a dream world.


He only said "should", though, not that it's actually realistic.
Old Post 10-11-06 00:51 #
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Belial
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I should've quoted the whole post, as I was referring to his bug reporting suggestion as well. Such reports have been made, with a 'fix the wad and upload to the archive' type of response.
Old Post 10-11-06 01:03 #
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Craigs
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Ironically I expected at least one idiot to show up and start whining about "DEATHZ0R BEENG UNFAYR" but I was extremely disappointed.


Anyway, I would have figured by now that Alterworldruler would have learned after two complaints by newstuff reviewers that there is a difference between Boom and Zdoom. My guess is that he is assuming Zdoom , Doom in Doom format is considered Boom compatible.
Old Post 10-11-06 01:28 #
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Scuba Steve


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Belial said:
You are living in a dream world.

Well snap me out and name some examples. The only one I know of was the change in slope algorithms which broke support for very early zdoom maps. Other than that I doubt you've got much.
Old Post 10-11-06 02:33 #
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GGG
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A number of these maps do look interesting to say the least.
Old Post 10-11-06 02:55 #
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Belial
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Claustrophobia map03 and the slowdown from the spawning gibs.

Some things in ZDCMP1 that I'm not aware of (some issues with the weapons and skybox) but that map's update edit: was done.

These 2 are some of the few ZDoom wads that I care about, so that's enough for me.

It's not like there are many wads that use ZDoom's features to the point where a slight change of behavior will break them.
Old Post 10-11-06 03:02 #
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Bastet Furry
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Hooray for archives.wad ^_^
Especial the "German" part...
@deathz0r:
Did you had some German at hand?
Because, the german didnt read that babelfishy at all ;)
Old Post 10-11-06 04:13 #
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Searcher
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Paradox 2 and SJS2: Outpost were both excellent. Slayer and Dutch Devil are both great mappers. Nice maps with good gameplay.

__________________
Happiness is a warm SSG ;)
Old Post 10-11-06 04:37 #
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alterworldruler
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1024 maps must be reuploaded is possible to update my file on idgames archive?
Old Post 10-11-06 06:59 #
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myk
The Disciple of Lüt


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alterworldruler said:
1024 maps must be reuploaded is possible to update my file on idgames archive?
Upload it as usual, but point out what previous upload it replaces on top where the template says "Update to: (original filename if updating an existing file)"

For example:

code:
Update to               : levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/1024-2.zip
Old Post 10-11-06 07:17 #
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Quasar
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I can only think of one major compatibility-affecting fix that EE includes to BOOM features, and this is a fix to the generalized floor types which raise or lower by the shortest lower texture around the perimeter of the sector. BOOM accidentally included the "-" texture when calculating the target height. This was fixed in BOOM v2.02, but not in v2.01 or in MBF.
Old Post 10-11-06 07:29 #
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myk
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Eternity and PrBoom also extended the amount of sidedefs or vertices allowed, so someone could easily exceed Boom's specs, test with those engines, and upload the result as "Boom compatible".
Old Post 10-11-06 07:48 #
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Graf Zahl
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Scuba Steve said:
ZDoom should, for all intents and purposes, be backwards compatible with every ZDoom map made.



I don't know many maps which aren't - and in all cases it's either the result of using undocumented (and therefore unsupported) features (e.g DEHSUPP) or from exploiting (or working around them without reporting) bugs (e.g. Wolfen.)

The only real compatibility issue aside from the ones mentioned by Belial I know of is RTC-3057 which was careless enough to name one of its DECORATE things 'pistol' although there's already a 'Pistol' internally defined. Of course this broke when the names were made case insensitive. Of course this is easily fixed by renaming that thing with a WAD editor.

The vast majority of older maps plays fine though and normally every attempt is made to keep compatibility.


Belial said:
Claustrophobia map03 and the slowdown from the spawning gibs.


Yes, that's unfortunate but in the end unavoidable. The things weren't behaving correctly as originally defined. If you care enough you can fix this issue by adding the following DECORATE lump to the WAD:

code:

ACTOR ColonGibs_ : ColonGibs replaces ColonGibs
{
	+NOBLOCKMAP
}

ACTOR SmallBloodPool_ : SmallBloodPool replaces SmallBloodPool
{
	+NOBLOCKMAP
}

ACTOR BrainStem_ : BrainStem replaces BrainStem
{
	+NOBLOCKMAP
}



Some things in ZDCMP1 that I'm not aware of (some issues with the weapons and skybox) but that map's update edit: was done.


DEHSUPP. I warned everyone ad nauseum not to use it but nobody wanted to listen due to the 'cool' effects they could do. The inevitable result was that this WAD only worked with one single version of ZDoom (2.0.63a.)
Old Post 10-11-06 08:21 #
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Afterglow
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funduke said:
Where can i get the original PARADOX2 by Tom Mustaine?

I found info about it's existence here:

http://72.14.221.104/search?q=cache...t=opera&strip=1[/url]

http://doomworld.com/afterglow/paradox2.zip

It was originally only featured on doomworld.com with a POTD. Somebody upload it to /idgames as I'm too lazy to. WTF to a 3D bridge in a deathmatch level.
Old Post 10-11-06 10:59 #
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myk
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Heh, yeah, you can imagine the opponents breaking the bridge on each other.

On the Google cache of his site Tom Mustaine said it was an "unreleased" wad (presumably someone got it and it made its way here). But the site isn't up anymore, and he seems to be under attack by exploding laptops.
Old Post 10-11-06 11:34 #
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impClaw
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heh, nice /newstuff, kinda like that you won't review maps with wrong port specified. Kinda disslike that i've to remember typing what zdoom version my wads use.
Old Post 10-11-06 15:19 #
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funduke
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Afterglow said:

http://doomworld.com/afterglow/paradox2.zip

It was originally only featured on doomworld.com with a POTD. Somebody upload it to /idgames as I'm too lazy to. WTF to a 3D bridge in a deathmatch level.


Many thanks!

If everything works as usual, it will be in /newstuff in the beginning of next month.
[Edit:]
But i think, i should first request permission by the author, just to make sure, that it's okay.

... Yes, i'm online again! :)

Greetings
Funduke
Old Post 10-11-06 17:55 #
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myk
The Disciple of Lüt


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impClaw said:
Kinda disslike that i've to remember typing what zdoom version my wads use.
If you keep the engine up to date you might as well just say "ZDoom", unless you know there could be problems in the future, like if you include experimental beta or custom features (as in the example Graf Zahl gave about DEHSUPP).
Old Post 10-11-06 21:16 #
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kristus
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Just say Latest version of <port name goes here>, unless you got reason to say something else. I've experienced way too many times that people try with older versions.
Old Post 10-11-06 21:52 #
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deathz0r
Bitch fuckin' stole me chaingun!


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Bastet Furry said:
@deathz0r:
Did you had some German at hand?
Because, the german didnt read that babelfishy at all ;)
Nope, I just automatically presumed it was something funny.
Old Post 10-11-06 23:04 #
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Schneelocke
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Bastet Furry said:
Because, the german didnt read that babelfishy at all ;)


True... it sounded more like Kage. ;)
Old Post 10-11-06 23:25 #
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Bastet Furry
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Al least it wasnt something like:
"Tuen Sie Adolfs Kopf in das Klospühlung und pressen Sie der Hebel"

The next time someone needs something translated to Germany for some Doom TC involving Wolfenstein stuff, drop me a PM.
I would even voiceact. ;)
Old Post 10-12-06 00:37 #
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