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Vile
The man made of sticks


Posts: 1196
Registered: 06-02


Heh, props for the secret on the credits level of Hellcore. It's been a while since I've seen one of those in a game... kinda missed it. ;)

Old Post 11-28-06 06:34 #
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dethtoll
Member


Posts: 491
Registered: 05-04


all the less-populous levels of hellcore really do is make me want to go play system shock or resident evil or something.

that said, i'm having a blast, though i really hate map 07, and i got tired of the mass swarms of enemies in fusion's maps.

Old Post 11-28-06 07:54 #
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RjY
anARCHy


Posts: 344
Registered: 05-02


All right, I felt I should post a clarification. I misjudged Hellcore and tried to play it in a way the authors weren't intending. Myk I believe you were saying the reviewing process can be just as flawed as the mapping process and I can't begrudge people for having different tastes in maps from my own. I think I expect Doom to play a certain way and when it doesn't play to expectations it can become frustrating. In fact maps 2 and 9 are pretty good for speedrunning, as exercises in strafe50, monster dodging etc.

The trick with map01 is to play it pacifist until you're through the blue door. The barons around the blue key will chase you but the corridor out of that area will not fill with demons as they will not have woken up. On the other hand I suppose you would have to know to play this way in advance. That's what I meant about having certain expectations about gameplay. Putting something on the FAQ page about playing stealthily and not trying to kill every last monster might help people.

Also Darkfyre I am sorry that you spent a week trying to work around port incompatibilities, that's certainly not lazyness as I said, but I still claim that half the problems are easily fixable. For example the problem with the start of map03 is that there is a walk trigger in front of the door. This is a fairly well-known ZDoomism. I think it would be quite easy to move it somewhere else nearby that didn't block the inside of the door. I think in hindsight I probably should have responded to the call for beta testers but I think Belial had already stepped up as a PrBoom user and also I have an aversion to volunteering ;)

Still, thanks for making Hellcore - I must have liked it enough to spend so much time writing about it :)

Old Post 11-28-06 22:47 #
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Darkfyre
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Posts: 399
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That would've been great, every tester found something that needed fixing... The tag infront of the door is a rather retarded mistake on my behalf though which really shouldn't have made it in <oops>. E-mails from a tester given in the "What the fuck were you thinking" tone were ignored, which, were they written productive and not so childish, would've greatly helped fix some of those stupid errors. Of course I've edited for years but this is infact my first finished release, so I know what to work on the next time I have a project. Thanks for the feedback.

Old Post 11-29-06 02:31 #
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myk
patron mod of ugly ducklings and black sheep


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RjY said:
Myk I believe you were saying the reviewing process can be just as flawed as the mapping process and I can't begrudge people for having different tastes in maps from my own.
I don't know if you can't (that's like telling a reviewer he can't judge what makes good gameplay, when in the end his review will be affected by what he considers good gameplay), but you should be able to more or less point out how the wad is constructed and what possibilities it offers (this often goes beyond intention). That's easier with more time (and easier or more easily expectable for older wads, as opposed to ones that just came out).


On the other hand I suppose you would have to know to play this way in advance. That's what I meant about having certain expectations about gameplay. Putting something on the FAQ page about playing stealthily and not trying to kill every last monster might help people.
Some wads have indeed had such things; Alien Vendetta has a preface style bit in the text file noting its relation to other wads (mainly HR and Plutonia), for example. Also, the text file goes with the wad all the time, so an author doesn't have to depend on observant reviews or FAQs or other clarifications to give a hint of what the wad is for. Even the authors of literary works sometimes do this sort of thing.


You said on your site:
Firstly, the gameplay isn't tacked on or whatever I said it was, but is deliberate. The authors prefer a style of gameplay where you run away from the monsters.
Deliberate, yes, but more than running away from monsters (which happens in the wad sometimes), it seems to be game play to fit the "realism". Note that both pacifists and max players often use techniques where they "run from the monsters"; the former just do it most of the time, the latter to pick up optimal ammo and round up their victims for infighting and slaughter.

Old Post 11-29-06 09:48 #
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Belial
Viva Negativa!


Posts: 805
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Darkfyre said:
E-mails from a tester given in the "What the fuck were you thinking" tone were ignored, which, were they written productive and not so childish, would've greatly helped fix some of those stupid errors.

Roofle.

The comments about gameplay were added after the list of bugs in each map.

Try to find some less childish excuses.

Old Post 11-29-06 15:31 #
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sargebaldy
not arioch


Posts: 3608
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Hey, Phocas Island II is really terrific. One of the best atmospheres I've seen in a Doom wad, and one of the 5 or 6 wads that have actually used source port capabilities properly. Excellent work Chopkinsca.

Old Post 11-30-06 00:12 #
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Darkfyre
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Posts: 399
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Belial said:
The comments about gameplay were added after the list of bugs in each map.
Never got there, last thing I read was one of the first, that being "I already don't care about this wad". Oh yes, please tell me more, sign me up for your newsletter k plz thx :)

Old Post 11-30-06 00:51 #
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Hobbs
Banned


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You know you sound like you're quite peeved for a crap reason. Why don't you go on Oprah or Dr. Phil and talk about it.

Old Post 11-30-06 04:04 #
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Fusion
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Because Belial being a beta tester and stating that he doesn't care about the wad clearly states what kind of tester he would be.. Honestly Hobbs, we didn't need that reply.Please stop posting if you have nothing mature to say. Or we can all resort to your maturity level and say, "Why don't you go vent on The View with Rosey Odonell". If you want to up your post count, go talk crap in post hell.

Old Post 11-30-06 05:08 #
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Darkfyre
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Posts: 399
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Make useless post refering to previous poster to encourage rebuttle.
Post count +1
Harass respondee to encourage flame.
Post count +1
Repeat until original poster realizes how mature and correct you are... If senseless BS stops, let knew poster interject to continue.

Or option B, leave the sarcasm to the british and piddle off. I honestly don't understand the useless rudeness and childlike behavior ever so present on the internet, anonymous asshole syndrome?

Old Post 11-30-06 10:18 #
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Hobbs
Banned


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DARKFYRE AND FUSION VS DWF ROUND II

Last edited by Hobbs on 11-30-06 at 17:32

Old Post 11-30-06 17:24 #
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myk
patron mod of ugly ducklings and black sheep


Posts: 10173
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Fusion said:
Because Belial being a beta tester and stating that he doesn't care about the wad clearly states what kind of tester he would be..
HobbsTiger1's annoying barking aside, I've seen Belial's testing input and he makes a great tester. In this case, you guys had a plan that conflicted with his criticism so there was no point continuing with the partnership eventuallly.

As for Boom compatibility, the issue is simple, only true Boom engines provide a consistent enough base to serve in general. Practically any wad made for Boom should work in ZDoom (ZDoom's been tested for this), but ZDoom has many quirks and features of its own, so it'll be a bad base when compared to anything else that handles Boom stuff (PrBoom, Risen 3D, Legacy, etc.). So the way to go is to use a true Boom offshoot for testing (optimally PrBoom at complevel 9), and then double check on ZDoom and possibly any other engines deemed relevant. That eases the process and pretty much guarantees a wad that you know will still be playable in the future and on many engines.

Old Post 11-30-06 20:00 #
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Belial
Viva Negativa!


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Fusion said:
Because Belial being a beta tester and stating that he doesn't care about the wad clearly states what kind of tester he would be..

Mmhmm.

That was the point where I stopped trying to tell you what to fix in the wads gameplay because I noticed that you went so far in the wrong direction that it was beyond fixing.

The bug reports were still as complete as I could make them, maybe except for map07 which was broken so badly that I couldn't figure out what was causing the problems.

IOW, you chose to ignore valid input because the accompanying reviews and opinions hurt your ego.

We don't have much to talk about at this point. Take it to PM if you care.

Old Post 11-30-06 20:38 #
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Fusion
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Belial,
To be honest, i wasn't even involved in any of the bug-fixing. I was merely pointing out what you said.

I appreciate the fact that you took the time to offer suggestions. This thread turned into a shitstorm for the bad, and i agree let's end the bickering here. Thanks for the input, i'm sorry that it didn't turn out the way you expected. You were given credit nonetheless in the txt file for your efforts. Cheers

Old Post 11-30-06 21:01 #
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Hobbs
Banned


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myk said:
HobbsTiger1's annoying barking aside


Are you trying to make me put my tail between my legs. Because its working, meanie :(

Old Post 11-30-06 21:46 #
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Darkfyre
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Belial said:
That was the point where I stopped trying to tell you what to fix in the wads gameplay because I noticed that you went so far in the wrong direction that it was beyond fixing.
It was like, the first sentence, your defense is flawed. If I knew you were such a cherished respectable and mature member of the community maybe I would've bothered to finish reading, but until that point I'd never even seen your name before, so I just naturally assumed you were a noob with a bad mouth. But nonetheless your name is tacked on to it for ALL ETERNITY. MUHAhahahaha. :p

Old Post 12-01-06 01:43 #
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Enjay
ASK ME ABOUT FOOTBALL / STEAM / DEAD CELEBRITIES / THE BLAIR WITCH PROJECT


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This is as good a place as any to mention this. Ty Halderman will be off the scene for a couple of weeks because he is in Aberdeen (Scotland) with his work. He forgot to mention it to anyone before he left so he asked me to let folks know that he will "be out" until he gets home.

So, if you have a file waiting to be moved from /incoming or need something done to the archives or whatever, I guess it won't happening for a couple of weeks.

Old Post 12-03-06 21:43 #
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