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Shaviro
Team Future Chief


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I'm honestly still trying to find something worthwhile for me in kdizd besides the rifle and looking at the automap after typing iddt. To me the levels are borderline horrible to look at. There is great inconsistency throughout the maps, yet they all seem to have cluttered and cramped rooms with nonsense "detail" that do nothing to enrich the architecture, but actually makes it look like what it is; random geometry that has no real place in the world. They marketed it as "reliving episode 1", but I almost find that insulting to the original. The enemy & weapon action/reaction is downright horrible with 30 billion monsters of the same type. Enemies everywhere. Nothing looks polished and there is no defining style throughout the wad.

To each his own, but for my personal taste this project seems to have lacked direction, purpose, goal....well....pretty much anything that would have, in the end, made the playtime worthwhile. I also quit after few levels. It was just that horrible. Or perhaps I have been away from doom wads for too long to properly enjoy them.

Old Post 06-18-07 20:46 #
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leileilol
dork stalker


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Graf Zahl said:
@leileilol: You are just an idiot so your opinion counts as much as the garbage in my trash bin. :P


yeah man so suckups are not idiots that's great.

Old Post 06-18-07 20:55 #
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kristus
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Vader said:
I was really looking forward to this review (regardeless if the reviewer liked it or not!) and when I saw the news post on the top of the page I was really excited to read through... however, seeing the articel having almost no information in it, other than Deathzor didn't like M3 and the paragraph about the stolen midi, was a huge disappointment for me!

---snip---

If Deathzor thinks KDiZD is pointless, then why did he bother to write something about it at all? He maybe could have handed it to someone else, willing to do a guest review, or just refuse to review it and put Rex's reviews up!



So in other words, if you hate something you are to review, then you should ask someone else who likes it a whole lot more to write it cause the creator has really been looking forward to massaging his ego with your thoroughly in depth review?

Old Post 06-18-07 21:06 #
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Vader
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It seems you didn't get my point!
As I said, it doesn't matter to me if the reviewer puts KDiZD in a good or bad light, as long as it's a fair, complete review.

I was just pointing out, that if deathzor can't stand to complete the wad, he should propably have handed it over to someone who is capable of going through all the maps, without quitting after encountering the first part that this person doesn't like!
Again, it is irrelevant to me if this other person hates or loves the mod... IMO it just deserves an official and complete tnc review.

Old Post 06-18-07 22:02 #
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kristus
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I got your point perfectly.

Old Post 06-18-07 22:03 #
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Vader
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Fine then.

Old Post 06-18-07 22:07 #
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EANB
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EANB said:
EDIT=Oh, and when I come back tomorrow Im pretty sure this thread will have about 50 posts compaining about it...


Postcount=64

Anyway, to compain about something else=


Deathz0r said:
Fortnightly


Why dont we just give up on giving it a time limit and say 'its done when its done'?

Old Post 06-18-07 22:07 #
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Craigs
The only idiot here besides Csonicgo


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Graf Zahl said:
Yeah, let's accept the low quality of the reviews and not try to do something about it...


If you don't like it, DO IT YOUR FUCKING SELF.
Whining and bitching about how Deathz0r isn't reviewing right isn't going to make a difference. If you want something done right, do it yourself.

So what if Deathz0r doesn't like your wad? Deathz0r is just one person, and nobody really pays much attention to him anyway, so it's not like he's gonna turn everyone against your work.

Old Post 06-18-07 22:13 #
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The Lag
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for me, the most enjoyable part of kdizd was hunting for the secrets, and that's fine.
the first encounter with the shadow imp was nice, as was *most* of the atmosphere.
it DID drag in places and the detail/visuals DID look bad in places.
the gameplay was a mixed-bag as well.
however, overall, i would give it a 4.5/5

personally, i can care less about how it was reviewed anywhere since, clearly, my opinion is different than the opinions of many.
i am also one of the few who enjoys every style of .wad -- from blast-fests like deus vult to puzzle-hunts like phocas island 2 to heavily scripted games like action! doom or rtc...

Old Post 06-18-07 22:37 #
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John Smith
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Does that every style of wad love include things like doom2xtreme and The Sky May Be?

As for me, kdizd was a serious letdown. It was hyped so much, and had such a long development time you would expect the best wad ever conceived to have been the result. Instead it is majorly disappointing on many counts. Overall I'd give it a 3/5 or a 3.5/5. Five star wad material, unfortunately, it is not.

Old Post 06-18-07 22:55 #
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The Lag
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not so much those 2 in particular, but i do like some strange/joke wads and weapon mods.

i'd also like to point out that, to me, kdizd felt more like doom3 in doom2 tributing some areas from e1.
that's a better way of classifying it, even though doom3 was...meh.

Last edited by The Lag on 06-18-07 at 23:16

Old Post 06-18-07 23:07 #
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Jeremiah Zero
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Played through the entirety of KDiZD on UV in just over 11 hours with 100% kills, items and secrets. Here's a "no bullshit" review from someone who actually played the whole thing.

Z1M1 - This map is the worst of the lot. . . by far! From the cheesey little tank thing at the very beginning (which, by the way, defies logic in how it even arrived at its present location; the only way to get it there would be to drive it over a ledge, implying you are now playing as the stupidest Doom Trooper in history) all the way to the pointlessly contaminated hall that branches off from a ROOM FULL OF TOXIC NUKAGE! Moreso than any other level in the set, Z1M1 feels piecemeal and haphazard, with its wind-about path and mostly uninspired secrets (particularly the box of bullets secret in the new outdoor area). Much like id's very first beta design for E1M1, this map needs to be scrapped completely and rebuilt from the ground up. This is a poor showing for an introductory map, which most casual gamers are going to base their opinion about the entire wad set on. Zero stars.

Z1M2 - Much better, much more coherent, much tighter design. The maze is perhaps a little more obnoxious than it really needs to be (and I speak primarily of the lighting there), but it's not game breaking by any standard. In addition, the green armor secret on the metal girders just before you take the elevator down to the end rooms is particularly annoying because the secret room credit is tied to the item, and I already had in excess of 100% armor when I found it. Overall this map was decent, but I didn't take anything memorable from it, so. . . 3 stars.

Z1M3 - This map might have gone on a little longer than it really needed to, and for some reason, I had every other aspect of the level completed before I figured out that the computers to disable the security locks were right next to the computer telling you you had to disable the security locks (after which, I could find no other way to get into the emergency hatch except rocket jumping, although I have since read elsewhere that there is another way to do it), which was a case of me assuming that I was going to find the security locks elsewhere in the level and have to remember to come back to this spot. Also, in the attic secret, there is a spot to the left where you can crouch and walk across a bunch of pipes and tech gear into a corner in the far back, which you can then not get out of. And of course, there was the hunt for the Military Base exit, which has been bitched about to no end, but still, I'm going to bitch about it myself because it's not just difficult to find (as it should be), but it's ridiculously, illogically difficult to find. The hunt for the activator to lower the panel that reveals the switch that opens the room that harbors the switch that opens the doors that lead to the tram that takes you to the Military Base took roughly two hours to find, and this was AFTER I HAD CHEATED to figure out where the key components were (which I hate to do the first time I play a wad, and mind you this is one of two secrets I had to cheat to try to figure out; I'll discuss the other later). It actually came down to me just mindlessly mashing the "Use" button on every surface in sight, a la Wolfenstein 3-D, and when I finally found it, I wanted to strangle you guys, because that room is really too damn dark to notice a texture variation that minimal. One spot I will say the level really shined: the blue key ambush. I had halfway convinced myself the ambush wasn't gonna take place, and that the panels on the wals were just red herrings. Sneaky, sneaky. I must also state that this was the only spot in the ENTIRE wad set where I took any damage from a Satyr. All in all, this map is long and slow and frustrating, and it would really be nice if you guys would go back and streamline it a little more, take out a lot of the unnecessary backtracking, and tone down the secret exit. 2 stars.

Z1M9 - Another disappointment tied to the secret exit switch. This level felt "blah" from beginning to end. And all the cutesy stuff that breaks the fourth wall (that dude's laptop? I mean really, who gives a fuck?!), ditch it. As gimmicky as the music switch was, I have to admit that it did make me smile, but it really just doesn't have any place in an abandoned moon base overrun by demons. My advice, you want to add a little comic relief, hire a comedian. Oddly enough, my favorite part of this level was the new end area (there may be something Freudian about that), but even there there were a couple of problems: 1). I could find no hints indicating the soulsphere secret out there. I stumbled on it trying to find a safe spot to blast demons from. 2). There's a cliff that a bunch of lost souls fly out from behind, but they can't make it over an impassible line; they're just stuck back there, trying to look menacing but not really accomplishing much. The impassible line was put there presumably to keep players from crate hopping up there, but only the lost souls suffer for it. Go figure. 2 Stars.

Z1M4 - Despite the changes to your travel route through this map (or maybe because of, it's hard to say), this is the first level that I really, genuinely enjoyed playing. In fact, the only gripe I have with this level at all is this: after you hit the switch that opens the cavern area door, you come back out of the dark hall and a closet has opened that releases a bunch of dark imps. After you kill all of the dark imps, walk into the little closet and turn around so you are looking out the doorway. Now jump. If you look to your left, on the ledge beside you, you'll see one tile of mismatched floor texturing. That's it. Don't ask me how I found it. Just know that it was infinitely easier to find than the secret exit in Z1M3, and I spent waaaaaay more time than I needed to trying to figure out if it might be somehow tied to a secret. Aside from that, a very well done level and fun to play. Not my favorite, but nice all the same. Also, at the risk of sounding hypocritical here (in light of what I said about the gimmick stuff im Z1M9), the return of the Dopefish was a nice touch. 4 stars.

Z1M5 - Not a bad map overall. Very true to the original. Torm's head was amusing, but like the other gimmicky stuff, maybe better to save it for a jokewad. . . or a Doom 2 remake (or reinterpretation, whatever you want to call it). Also, the new room behind the orange key door didn't really add much to the level and could probably be ditched without anyone complaining (except perhaps the room's designer; sorry, dude). The stuff behind the silver key door was fine with one exception: all the stuff beyond the nukage tunnel you have to pass through is basically guaranteed to only be visited once per playing because the door that can only be opened from the other side CLOSES after you go through it, and you only have the one rad suit to traverse the tunnel with. Maybe it was designed that way on purpose, but it seems to me that door should stay open after you've unlocked it. And speaking of nukage tunnels, the very first one you're supposed to travel though to find the switch that raises the catwalk out of the nuke pit can be bypassed in one of two ways: 1). rocket jump off the catwalk into the hallway, and 2). use the extra jump height from leaping out of the nuke pit to clear the lowered catwalk completely and land in the hallway above. Both problems can be solved by making the door in that hallway triggered by a line or switch somewhere on the other side of the nuke tunnel you're supposed to go through. Decent map though. 3 and a half stars.

Z1M6 - A few of things about this map: First, the blue key area can be reached from the big nuke-filled room below it by using the first barrels you see in that room and some clever ledge hopping. . . or you could just rocket jump up there. Second, right outside the busted-out wall (same nuke-filled room) is an outdoor area with a cliff that some cacodemons fly oout from behind. You can get up to that area by using the raised aclove next to it that hides a couple of dark imps. . . or, once again, you could just rocket jump up there. Third, you can jump from the crane to the high aclove that houses the sniping shadows. It might take you a couple of tries to line it up right, but it can be done, and without aid of a rocket jump either. This level was decent, but no great shakes. The outdoor areas looked fantastic, but overall I felt I spent too much time wandering and not enought time killing. 3 stars.

Z1M7 - My favorite level from the original, and almost my favorite from this mapset as well. Nothing really wrong with the level itself, it's just that you guys had to go and make Z1M10, and that map just blew all the others away. As far as this map goes, however, I liked almost all of the new additions. Spent a lot of time backtracking, which seemed to work fine for a lot of the original areas, but not so much for the new ones. More often than not they were pretty barren when I had to cross back through these areas, whereas the original map used a lot of ambushes when backtracking was necessary to keep things interesting. I was kind of saddened by the loss of the large outdoor secret from the original, and if I had one request for this map, it would be for you to put it back in, but all said and done, the map's big enough as it is, and the outdoor replacements (especially in the end area) are really nicely done. The M-4000 secret kinda sucks though. There's no real indicator (that I noticed anyway) that there's even a secret there. I stumbled over it by sheer chance; I just happened to be jumping out of the nukage there and clicked my "Use" button on accident. It's also one of those things that I could do without, especially the line about maybe someday the developers will finish it (which could be meant to mean "weapon developers" or "game developers", but I of course took it to mean "game developers"). At best I'd ditch the secret area discovery credit and just leave it in as an easter egg. 4 stars.

Z1M10 - As previously stated, my favorite map of the set. Once I saw this level, my immediate reaction was "This is what KDiZD should have been: a collection of maps that highlight key areas from all of Ultimate Doom." It was pieced together brilliantly, and it was fun as hell to play (that pun was unintentional and drawing attention to it like I did was just plain stupid; remind me not to do that again). It wasn't without its issues though, first and foremost being its placement in the mapset. Coming off of Z1M7, which was a huge map, I was ready to get down to the endgame, but suddenly founnd myself thrust into another huge map instead. It had become just another obstacle in my way to the game's end instead of the enjoyable reward it should have been. By about the halfway point, the initial joy had started to wear off and I was really just wanting to get this map over with so I could get to Z1M8. I'd highly advise moving this map to the very end of the set and including M8's kills/items/secrets count into the requirements (and by the by, I had no problem at all with said requirements; this map really should be a reward for the hardcore, a self-congratulatory pat on the back for a job well done). That way you could just sit back and enjoy the map. No pressure. The game's done. This is the icing on the cake, so to speak. My second issue with this map was the balcony secret you have to (or are supposed to) find the teleporter for. This was the second secret where I had to cheat in order to try and figure out how to get to it, but I never did find the teleporter (I eventually learned its location in another thread, but that was after the fact). In order to get to it, I managed to rocket jump up there, but it took repeated tries to get the angle right. Part of the problem with this secret was that for wahtever reason I did not recognize the room that the teleporter is in. Had I, I might have remembered the original secret and figured it out. 4 and a half stars. (I'll give you 5 stars if you take out the dildo.)

Z1M8 - Redone very well, but please ditch the message in the old soulsphere secret. There never would have been a soulsphere there "this time" because that implies that there was a "last time", and this is supposed to be the Doom Trooper's first time through the Phobos Base. The level itself was quite fun to play, but the couple of areas that prevent backtracking actually screwed me up in this level because I hadn't finshed searching for secrets both times, and therefore had to restart twice (I also had to give up hoarding items and just pick up everything along the way to get 100% items, which was kind of annoying). The new hell areas were pretty fun, but I found that in the island area where you have to kill 4 or 5 (or maybe it was 6, I can't remember right now) barons to progress, once the shadows' sniper spots opened up, I could just waste a shadow, steal his sniping position and ride out most of the horror suffering very little damage. The las boss wasn't much, especially considering you can trigger him without actually falling over the ledge, which made beating him a breeze. As someone has stated already, if he were more mobile (and maybe had some ground attacks), he'd be a lot harder. Overall, while the level looked nice, it's little irregularities where more a hassle than cute paculiarities, so 3 stars.

In regards to the new monsters, for the most part, I could've done without them. They added very little variance to gameplay for how many new critters there were. The new pinkies were especially useless, being that they both still died quietly and without much of a fight when you whipped out the chainsaw. The Satyr was another monster that sucked, primarily because it was slow moving, had slow attack frames, and had no ranged attack. I could run right up to 'em, give 'em a full double barrel blast, back off before their attack animation had even started and repeat process until demise. The lion guys were more like monster-controlled pause buttons. Pause, wait for shield to drop, fire, pause, wait for shield to drop, repeat, repeat, repeat, each time praying for it to do it's shield blast so you had something else do to (even if it is only sidestepping) instead of standing around with your thumb up you ass. My favorites of the group were the new cube demons, which could be a real pain in the ass to fight but were very underused, and the bruiserdemons, which I really liked design-wise, although I found herding them by way of strafe-circling was a really easy way to take them out. It was also nice to see the rocket zombie back again, and placed much more effeciently than back in the old Obtic.wad, where they were constantly blowing themselves up before you even realized they were there. All in all, new monsters get 2 stars.

New weapons: the grenade launcher was a lot more useful than I expected it to be after first using it (and I never even found out it had an alt-fire until after I beat the game), and the new uber-rifle (whatever the hell that thing's called) was fantastically fun, but sometimes I felt it made certain challenges too easy (like the last boss, for example, or any bruiserdemon encounter). If I run through KDiZD again, I'm thinking of doing so without using that gun at all. The new double barrel design was "hmmph, whatever, it's a double barrel, I don't care what it looks like". New weapons get 3 and a half stars.

So overall, did I think it was the great game it was hyped up to be? No, but then again, how often does anything live up to its hype? Truth is, once you got past the first few levels, the game got really fun, and the operative word there is game, as in a full, complete game, which is what this mod felt like. Not just an episode, but a complete game. For all the hard work that went into it, I have to give the designers a lot of respect. It's highly unlike;y that many of us could've done better working for free. The game's biggest flaw might also be it's biggest asset, and that's that it went through so many hands before it saw completion. To mirror Pritch's words, it really was a coming-together of the community, and warts and all, that's gotta be worth something.

But then again. . . maybe next time around (if there is a next time around), a smaller team probably couldn't hurt.

Old Post 06-18-07 23:11 #
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Tormentor667
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I am not going to say much about what's happening here again as it seems always to be the same drama if deathz0r is involved in the /newstuff chronicles reviews. The only thing I want to agree with is what Vader said: When I saw there was a review about KDiZD in the newstuff I was excited and just wanted to read it (as I have to admit as well, deathz0r sometimes does really nice reviews and I quite like reading them) but what I got here was ... well, I shouldn't have been surprised, it's deathz0r and he seems to not get just enough attention, maybe that's why his review mostly consists of this music issue instead of the 70% rest he didn't even play. It's a sad thing and - I don't know if this is even possible - maybe deathz0r is fair enough to agree that this review doesn't help anyone and could be made better, that'd be a real good start in my eyes.

Old Post 06-19-07 00:20 #
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zap610
JETSONZ KREW 4LYF


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Tormentor667 said:
it seems always to be the same drama if deathz0r is involved in the /newstuff chronicles reviews.


That is because people like YOU blow a simple review out of proportion. He give his honest opinion of the wad, what more do you want? If he reviewed the whole thing the kdizd entourage would still be upset with a different reason. Do you want a gift package for trying? A medal? It seems the only way a review can be good is if it involves kissing serious ass. Please, for once stop acting like everybody else is the problem.

Old Post 06-19-07 00:35 #
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myk
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Tormentor667 said:
maybe deathz0r is fair enough to agree that this review doesn't help anyone
Anyone? Speak for yourself, please.

Good job there, Jeremiah Zero, it's thorough but not too long, dealing mainly with essentials and playability.

Old Post 06-19-07 00:43 #
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Tormentor667
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http://doomnexus.drdteam.org/Stuff/KDiZD_Review.html
This is a review for me (although this would be a bit too long for /newstuff), a review that makes sense, delivers information and is fair as Rex obviously played the whole thing. It has nothing to do with medals or kissed asses but thats something I really would like to see for the /newstuff reviews from deathz0r. C'mon both of you, especially myk...

Good job there, Jeremiah Zero, it's thorough but not too long, dealing mainly with essentials and playability.

You can't be serious if more than 40% of his kdizd review is about his music file?! :)
BTW not everybody else is the problem, it's just one single person. And as a little hint for you: It's not me! Now guess...

Old Post 06-19-07 01:16 #
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Tormentor667
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...or maybe I should just don't care about what deathz0r says as it is of no worth for me and many other persons

Someone wrote:
This is incredible - I'm still playing through and it's very impressive! I love the way you used the commercial for the cinematic audio.

Great work!

John

---
John Romero
http://rome.ro

Old Post 06-19-07 01:50 #
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Bloodshedder
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This is getting absurd. Goodbye now.

Old Post 06-19-07 02:11 #
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Linguica


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Thread reopened because I just noticed it was closed, not that anyone cares

Old Post 08-03-07 04:48 #
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ReX
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.... and the pendulum begins its back-swing.

Old Post 08-03-07 15:31 #
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Steeveeo
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And the KDIZD pandemonium has been unlocked, spreading chaos unto the land, destroying crops, and doing other...bad stuff....or something....

Y'know what never mind...

Old Post 08-03-07 17:14 #
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leileilol
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ok this thread is about joe's labs

let's talk joe's labs

Old Post 08-03-07 18:04 #
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Craigs
The only idiot here besides Csonicgo


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Just out of curiosity, is this really the last /Newstuff Chronicle?
If so, it's a real shame that it came to a screeching halt, all because of one flamewar over a wad.

Old Post 08-10-07 01:51 #
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esselfortium
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Craigs said:
Just out of curiosity, is this really the last /Newstuff Chronicle?
If so, it's a real shame that it came to a screeching halt, all because of one flamewar over a wad.



No, it's just taking a long time for the next one. It is being worked on.

__________________
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Old Post 08-10-07 03:03 #
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leileilol
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deathz0r's technical difficulties have ended so it should be here Real Soon Now

Old Post 08-10-07 07:10 #
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kristus
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Craigs said:
Just out of curiosity, is this really the last /Newstuff Chronicle?
If so, it's a real shame that it came to a screeching halt, all because of one flamewar over a wad.



Yeah, Deathzor started crying and refuse to make any more because of a stupid flamewar...

Old Post 08-10-07 07:51 #
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KennyJC
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esselfortium said:


No, it's just taking a long time for the next one. It is being worked on.



So funny. I always release my wads on a big newstuff meaning my wad will get less attention.

I was considering waiting till after this bottle-necked newstuff to upload my wad since there'll be less releases in the next newstuff if it's uploaded in a timely fashion.

Old Post 08-10-07 21:47 #
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exl
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KennyJC said:


So funny. I always release my wads on a big newstuff meaning my wad will get less attention.

I was considering waiting till after this bottle-necked newstuff to upload my wad since there'll be less releases in the next newstuff if it's uploaded in a timely fashion.



But oh no, what if everybody thinks the same! newstuff will implode thanks to you.

Old Post 08-10-07 22:19 #
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printz
CRAZY DUMB ZEALOT


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Maybe deathz0r got tired of /newstuffing all by himself?

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Old Post 08-10-07 23:38 #
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SYS
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Newstuff 308 will surface. Have patience. I suppose I should be trendy and take the opportunity to shit on KDiZD now that the thread is reopened. But alas, my work is already done.

Old Post 08-11-07 02:49 #
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