ReX
Senior Member
Posts: 1447
Registered: 05-00 |
John Smith said:
Stealth monsters and 95% of Hudmessages are always used because they're available instead of from real need.... Stealth monsters just serve to make the game frustrating or annoying depending on the difficulty of the monster. Hudmessages are far too often (all around, not just in EtIV) they're used to create a tiny underdeveloped in-game narrative that could easily be done without. Or they make obvious statements about occurrences in the game. I think I saw a few particle fountains too.... Particle fountains are a used-because-it's-available feature every time they're used. And they look like shit every time they're used. Not a coincidence I assure you.
Stealth monsters: On a personal level I agree with you, and that's why there are no stealth monsters in Maps08-10. However, that is ultimately the mapper's prerogative. Someone else mentioned stealth monsters, but as far as I can remember the only one used is the stealth arch-vile at the beginning of Map27. (Of course, the last time I play-tested each of the maps was in November 2007, so I could have forgotten this.) There may be a few others, but I do not recall them being widely used or to the point of being annoying. Please point out additional examples if you recall them. The team will definitely have discussions on the use/misuse of stealth monsters.
HUD messages: Maps11-13 have virtually none, and Map27 uses them sparingly. I assume, then, that you are referring to Maps08-10. If you accept that Maps08-10 are "mission-driven", then perhaps you'll see that many of the messages are intended to further the so-called "immersion" quotient of the maps. I just reviewed all my scripts for the 3-map hub, and with the exception of the mission briefing in Map08 (which is completely optional) there are hardly any redundant HUD messages. Perhaps the message in Map10 about bars opening nearby (while the camera shows the bars opening) could be omitted. But almost all other messages serve to properly orient the player (e.g., "you are now entering Map so-and-so", or "you need to find one more weapon before you can exit", or "you have not found the rune key, do you still wish to exit?"), and most players would find them useful.
Particle fountains: I don't remember them being used indiscriminately. If the mapper in question used them, it's likely that he liked the look of it. You and the relevant mapper are going to have to disagree on this one.
Right and in large part it [ZDooM features] was done well. The use of the hub system was great, slopes looked better than they do in most wads, the scripting overall wasn't glaringly bad or overdone, etc. As for the feature rich vs. feature bloat thing, I admit to being a so-called "purist" in that I'd more inclined to wads of the vanilla or limit removing persuasion as opposed to those of the ZDoom or Skulltag persuasion, and that what I consider to be bloat many consider to be features. I'm not even bothering talking about those differences in this post, only the things that I see as clear cut problems.
I'm glad you stated your preference for vanilla or limit-removing wads. As I said before, EDIV is not meant to be all things to all people, and we recognize that many people will not come away impressed with the game. I am not trying to convince you (or anyone else) that this is a great game that you have no choice but to enjoy. However, creating a game that people would enjoy was one of our foremost objectives; it's a shame that you are among those that didn't.
Read the above, and also consider the following: the gameplay is lacking. In some places its good, in some places its tacked on, and I'm not going to go on a room by room tour with you in this thread to tell you where it needs work. At the risk of being flamed or stereotyped I'm going to suggest taking a look at Alien Vendetta, Vrack2b, Wonderful Doom, and ZDoom Community Map Project to see how proper gameplay should be. Doesn't have to be as hard as some of the above, but it needs to be as well planned as all of the above to shine in the area of gameplay.
We have received comments from others on the gameplay, and where it was lacking. The team is considering all these comments, and we shall take your suggestions under advisement also.
Many thanks for taking the time to explain what you think we can do to improve the game. That's all we expect. (However, if someone were to tell us they liked the game, and provided reasons for it, we would not be averse to that either.) And contrary to what you may be thinking, I don't object to criticism. I just have a problem when it is delivered in an apparently rude manner, particularly under the cover of the anonymity that the Internet affords.
[EDIT: The following comments are based on the EDIT of your post.]
EDIT: A few more things as I play again. Freezing the player during for hudmessages makes the hudmesssages even more annoying, and killer force fields are yet another shitty zdoom feature that is used because it's there more than need. Use a blocking line or something.
Yes, I agree that the player freezing is annoying. However, the reason I set it up that way is other scripts don't get activated until the HUD message script is completed. Therefore, if the player runs to the teleporter at the start of the map, the teleport will not work until the HUD message script has been completed. My plan for a work-around is to allow the player to skip the intro area completely, teleport directly to the "crossroads", and be ready to enter any one of the 3 maps.
I'm not sure if you're referring to the laser barrier in the crossroads, or the two force-fields blocking the secret areas in Map08. The force-fields are not "killer", and they only impart minor damage. This leaves the laser barrier. Which laser barrier have you known that is only blocking? Players of ZDooM maps know by now that laser barriers are deadly. You and I are going to have to disagree on this one, particularly as there is just one laser barrier in the entire hub.
Last edited by ReX on 01-21-08 at 17:30
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01-15-08 09:24 
