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chungy
Doomworld is so about bullshit excuses


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leileilol said:
Time to start a Free Data project(s)! I've been doing replacement stuff for Heretic the other day but they're guns :(

Bleh. What's so wrong with just buying the original games?

Edit: Since I pretty much know your response already, let's take a look at what Richard M. Stallman thinks about it:
code:
From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> Subject: Re: Views on changing software policies... Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 03:24:57 -0500 I was wondering if you had specific thoughts about software that was once non-free, but the company or developers have liberated it to be under a free license (GNU, BSD, or whatever). Do you feel as the companies or developers have done a right thing by turning over? Yes. They formerly denied the user's freedom, which was unethical, but they have changed to respecting the user's freedom, which is ethical. How do you feel if they continue to develop/publish non-free programs, and only a specific set of software is freed? The free programs are ethical and the non-free ones are not. I'm thinking somewhat on the lines of liberated games. Games like moria have been entirely liberated; whereas others like Doom and Quake only have had their engines freed, and their game data files remain nonfree (still make a profit on the game data)... it seems that Doom and Quake might constitute as only 'semi-free' as they still depend on non-free data (although projects like FreeDoom (BSD-licensed) and OpenArena (GPL-licensed) exist to make free game data, to allow an entirely free game to be distributed). Game data is more like art than like software, so I don't think it has to be free. On the other hand, free game data is a good thing.

Free game data is good, but it's not necessary. Free Software is about protecting the user's rights on the *software* he uses, art is art; no one disagrees that free art is a good thing, but it's not a necessity.

Last edited by chungy on 09-05-08 at 23:37

Old Post 09-05-08 22:58 #
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Searcher
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Epic.

History has been made. Yeah!

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Old Post 09-06-08 00:38 #
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sgtcrispy
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About damn time!
W00t!!!

Old Post 09-06-08 01:23 #
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CodeImp
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AlexMax said:
Your assumption is faulty in that you assume that the authors of closed source ports actually have any desire in the first place to go GPL.

No, thats not the point. I don't care about ones desire as long as it stays ethical. It is not a matter of desire, it is a matter of legality. The combining of Doom and Hexen/Heretic under the old licenses was impossible because the licenses were not compatible, it was illegal in every way. It is also illegal to have a closed source project with code under GPL license, simply because the license forbids that.The assumption was that one would want to try being a honest man by going legal... but yea not all people are like that unfortunately.

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Last edited by CodeImp on 09-06-08 at 01:42

Old Post 09-06-08 01:29 #
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jute
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MikeRS said:

Free game data is good, but it's not necessary. Free Software is about protecting the user's rights on the *software* he uses, art is art; no one disagrees that free art is a good thing, but it's not a necessity.



Of course it's not necessary. Neither is playing the games in the first place. But some people enjoy creating free art and some people enjoy playing it.

Old Post 09-06-08 01:34 #
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KennyJC
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Shows you how much I know...

I thought that because you could use Hexen features in Zdoom was because it was taken from Hexen code released years ago :/

So is this actually going to make a difference to Doom?

Old Post 09-06-08 02:38 #
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esselfortium
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KennyJC said:
Shows you how much I know...

I thought that because you could use Hexen features in Zdoom was because it was taken from Hexen code released years ago :/

So is this actually going to make a difference to Doom?


It was released years ago, but it was accidentally released under a weird license that made it illegal to use in most sourceports. Now any of those sourceports are free to use code from Heretic and Hexen.

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Old Post 09-06-08 02:53 #
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Gez
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KennyJC said:
So is this actually going to make a difference to Doom?

Many source ports, including Chocolate Doom, Odamex, Eternity, and more, are probably going to gain improvements from this since Heretic and Hexen features are now available to them.

Old Post 09-06-08 03:08 #
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Arch-Valentine
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Great news! Always loved both! I wish they would release stuff like this for Blood. I still want to play Cryptic Passage on Vista!

Old Post 09-06-08 04:40 #
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Trasher][
The game is not well!


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Arch-Valentine said:
Great news! Always loved both! I wish they would release stuff like this for Blood. I still want to play Cryptic Passage on Vista!
DOSbox runs Blood at full speed nowadays.

Old Post 09-06-08 04:46 #
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glaber
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So does this mean we will finaly have proper polyobjects? I wonder if this will affect SRB2. (Grabs the first post and runs)

Old Post 09-06-08 05:49 #
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Graf Zahl
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What's an 'improper' polyobject? ;)

Old Post 09-06-08 08:49 #
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esselfortium
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Graf Zahl said:
What's an 'improper' polyobject? ;)

It can't stand up straight, and has a habit of wearing its underwear over its pants. The poor dear just isn't right in the head, you know? :(

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Old Post 09-06-08 09:28 #
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Necros20
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So what can we do with the Heretic and Hexen sources now that we couldn't do previously?

Old Post 09-06-08 15:20 #
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leileilol
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we can port them without any recurring guilt

Old Post 09-06-08 16:02 #
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glaber
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Graf Zahl said:
What's an 'improper' polyobject? ;)


Well in my experience, an improper one is one that allows you to go through it when you shouldn't, doesn't hurt you when it should, and is unable to push you.

Old Post 09-06-08 17:06 #
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esselfortium
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glaber said:


Well in my experience, an improper one is one that allows you to go through it when you shouldn't, doesn't hurt you when it should, and is unable to push you.


In my experience, that means whoever built that polyobject needs to have their mapping license revoked.

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Old Post 09-06-08 17:17 #
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Naan
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Great news !

I hope now those 2 games will have their own legendary megawads they deserved since so long.

Old Post 09-06-08 23:17 #
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Graf Zahl
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Naan said:
Great news !

I hope now those 2 games will have their own legendary megawads they deserved since so long.




What does that have to do with the GPL? There's already ports out there that support these games - they have been existing for years - but the map output has always been considerably smaller than Doom's and that goes back to the good old times when the original EXEs were all we had.

Old Post 09-06-08 23:38 #
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glaber
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esselfortium said:

In my experience, that means whoever built that polyobject needs to have their mapping license revoked.


Well in case you're wondering what my experience was, it was running Hexen on a source port. (I think it might of been an old version of Zdoom)

Old Post 09-07-08 06:07 #
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Squonk
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Great news, really. I was expecting that for quite a long time now. Maybe I'll record again some skill5 demos... :)

Old Post 09-07-08 12:10 #
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Creaphis
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Now, according to my title, I need to argue why this is a bad thing.










But I can't! IT'S AWESOME!

Old Post 09-07-08 21:55 #
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Necros20
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Can we expect any interesting developments to come out of these two games now that this has been done?

Old Post 09-07-08 22:15 #
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glaber
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Well we saw the various source ports and SRB2 come out of Doom's. maby we might see a Banjo-Kazooie mod come out of this?

Old Post 09-08-08 03:15 #
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GreyGhost
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Necros20 said:
Can we expect any interesting developments to come out of these two games now that this has been done?
It's just a matter of time before Doom source ports start supporting Heretic/Hexen features like the inventory, ambient sounds, flying, variable friction, weather effects, weapons power-ups, looking up/down . . . um . . . without any recurring guilt. :-)

Congratulations to Quasar for his persistance and Raven for taking the leap of faith.

Old Post 09-08-08 06:20 #
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smite-meister
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Ajapted said:
Too bad the ACC compiler wasn't included as well.

Luckily that's the component easiest to reverse engineer legally.

Good news, thanks to everybody involved!

Old Post 09-08-08 23:12 #
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Quasar
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smite-meister said:

Luckily that's the component easiest to reverse engineer legally.

Good news, thanks to everybody involved!


The virtual machine may be easy to reverse engineer, but compiler writing is one of the more difficult subjects in Computer Science. Despite easily implementing an ACS interpreter from aught but ZDoom's documentation, I wouldn't even bother wasting my time trying to write a compiler for it. I wouldn't get very far.

I somewhat regret not adding the ACS compiler to this request originally, but for one I was afraid to ask for more since it was already an unlikely thing to happen. For two, anyone else has been free to make such a request for the last 10 years and to my knowledge, nobody has bothered. I'm only one person and I think I had enough to manage with this ;)

Old Post 09-08-08 23:31 #
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Graf Zahl
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GreyGhost said:
It's just a matter of time before Doom source ports start supporting Heretic/Hexen features like the inventory, ambient sounds, flying, variable friction, weather effects, weapons power-ups, looking up/down . . . um . . . without any recurring guilt. :-)




None of these features require much of a brain to figure them out. And Raven's implementations aren't even particularly good so if GPLing the Raven code makes this happen I wouldn't consider it a good sign... ;)

Old Post 09-09-08 00:05 #
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Quasar
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Graf Zahl said:
None of these features require much of a brain to figure them out. And Raven's implementations aren't even particularly good so if GPLing the Raven code makes this happen I wouldn't consider it a good sign... ;)

What it will mostly do for Eternity is allow me to copy en-masse all of those annoying codepointer functions for monster support (while fixing bugs and adding features, of course). I had NO idea how I was going to manage to get all of the Hexen monsters going with any semblance of compatibility. Stuff like the Bishop's corkscrew projectiles, the Heresiarch, and Korax. Not your average shoots-or-scratches enemies, unlike Heretic.

Old Post 09-09-08 03:22 #
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andrewj
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Quasar said:
I somewhat regret not adding the ACS compiler to this request originally, but for one I was afraid to ask for more since it was already an unlikely thing to happen. For two, anyone else has been free to make such a request for the last 10 years and to my knowledge, nobody has bothered. I'm only one person and I think I had enough to manage with this ;)

Don't worry James nobody blames you, and getting the engine source GPL'd is still awesome (and the most important thing).

When I learned that Quake III's VM compiler, a modified LCC, was not under a GPL compatible license I was pretty disappointed (as a GPL and Debian nut). The engine is GPL free but an important tool is not. And even though I don't care much about Hexen, it's a bit sad that the same is now true for Hexen as well.

Old Post 09-09-08 03:30 #
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