Archvile
Register | User Profile | Member List | F.A.Q | Privacy Policy | New Blog | Search Forums | Forums Home
Doomworld Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.5 Doomworld Forums > Misc. > Doomworld News > Eternity Engine: Rebirth Released (Refreshed)
Pages (2): « 1 [2]  
Author
All times are GMT. The time now is 11:47. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
printz
CRAZY DUMB ZEALOT


Posts: 6845
Registered: 06-06
SoM said:


So basically, you would rather have a scripting language in place, with an API that had to be hacked to bits to work around the limitations in the map format, only to have to learn a completely new API when the better map format was implemented? Sounds like a piss-poor idea to me...
Sorry if it sounded insulting. Didn't mean it to. I think I pretty much get what you're trying to say now anyway.
Old Post 01-12-11 21:02 #
printz is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Graf Zahl
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


Posts: 7130
Registered: 01-03
Fisk said:

Except render them at playable framerates.



What makes you think they don't? Got a shitty graphics card, perhaps?

On my Geforce 8600 the only portals causing performance issues are those where both inside and outside the portal a ZDoom skybox is visible - because such a setup creates more portals than mappers may think.

On the other hand, since there is close to no material for testing available, I can't say anything about how Eternity's portals perform. Well, since Eternity is currently still restricted to 35 fps it doesn't really matter anyway. I doubt I could find many maps that would run slower than 35fps on GZDoom. Even the worst portal setups I've seen so far still clock in at >40fps on my system at 1280x1024 pixels.
Old Post 01-12-11 21:08 #
Graf Zahl is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Fisk
Forum Regular


Posts: 831
Registered: 02-07
Graf Zahl said:
What makes you think they don't? Got a shitty graphics card, perhaps?
It's a largely-known known fact that (G)ZDoom portals are limited, buggy and bad for performance. Speaking as an owner of an 8600GTS, by the way.

Since when have linked portals and line portals existed in GZDoom, anyway?
Old Post 01-12-11 21:18 #
Fisk is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Graf Zahl
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


Posts: 7130
Registered: 01-03
Fisk said:
It's a largely-known known fact that (G)ZDoom portals are limited, buggy and bad for performance. Speaking as an owner of an 8600GTS, by the way.


If you say that GZDoom's portals are as limited as ZDoom's you clearly haven't followed recent developments. None of the clipping issues that plague ZDoom exist anymore in GZDoom and performance also is a lot better.

Try playing Zen Dynamics MAP04, for example, in ZDoom and GZDoom and watch the difference. In ZDoom it degenerates into a slideshow but in GZDoom I still got full VSync-limited FPS there on my system.


Fisk said:

Since when have linked portals and line portals existed in GZDoom, anyway?


Both features do not exist (yet, I'm still working on line portals right now) and I never claimed otherwise. I was merely talking about anchored portals which are Eternity's equivalent to ZDoom's stacked sectors.
Old Post 01-12-11 21:25 #
Graf Zahl is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Quasar
Moderator


Posts: 4615
Registered: 08-00
SoM said:


So basically, you would rather have a scripting language in place, with an API that had to be hacked to bits to work around the limitations in the map format, only to have to learn a completely new API when the better map format was implemented? Sounds like a piss-poor idea to me...

Err actually I'm not expecting Aeon to require any major paradigm shift due to UDMF. Either way, UDMF is being implemented first by majority request.
Old Post 01-12-11 21:28 #
Quasar is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


Posts: 7042
Registered: 07-07
Yay! :)
Old Post 01-12-11 21:31 #
Gez is online now Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
John Smith
not hobbs


Posts: 587
Registered: 05-07
Graf Zahl said:
What makes you think they don't? Got a shitty graphics card, perhaps


I have an ATI 5770 and Modern Warfare 2 has better framerates at the same resolution than GZDoom when both are rendering complex scenes. So I'm pretty sure the quality of graphics card has naught to do with it.
Old Post 01-13-11 00:01 #
John Smith is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Graf Zahl
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


Posts: 7130
Registered: 01-03
No, with ATI it's the OpenGL drivers which cost a lot of performance.

NVidia cards run considerably faster because their drivers are much better optimized to handle OpenGL immediate mode.

The driver calls on ATI take 4-5 times as long as on NVidia (no, that's not a joke!) and that time simply cannot be compensated elsewhere.
Old Post 01-13-11 00:34 #
Graf Zahl is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
John Smith
not hobbs


Posts: 587
Registered: 05-07
4-5 times eh? You have documentation to support this fact?
Old Post 01-13-11 00:42 #
John Smith is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Graf Zahl
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


Posts: 7130
Registered: 01-03
The benchmarks I had made. This concerns only the driver calls themselves though so the overall performance loss is not this high, of course.

The thing is, GZDoom is so much CPU limited ( with the kind of graphics Doom needs to draw it hardly pushes the graphics card in any way ) that any inefficiencies in the graphics driver will inevitably show as loss of performance.

Here you can find the latest round. You won't see a discrepancy of factor 4 and 5 there but that's because I measure the entire rendering function, not just the driver calls in it and it still needs to do quite a bit of stuff itself. But even so the less efficient ATI driver adds up enough on high detail map to cause slowdowns.
Old Post 01-13-11 08:19 #
Graf Zahl is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Tormentor667
Senior Member


Posts: 1897
Registered: 10-00
Graf Zahl said:
So? Ever tried to use portals for real with more recent versions? You'll notice that most clipping issues that plagued earlier releases are completely gone now.

Not yet actually, but I obviously have to :) Since which svn version is this implemented? And beyond, what about "travel-through" portals and wall portals?

@All - By the way, how is this script syntax looking like? Any examples?
Old Post 01-13-11 11:33 #
Tormentor667 is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
printz
CRAZY DUMB ZEALOT


Posts: 6845
Registered: 06-06
Tormentor667 said:

Not yet actually, but I obviously have to :) Since which svn version is this implemented?

Just try the latest GZDoom SVN.

And beyond, what about "travel-through" portals and wall portals?
Graf Zahl already said that none are in GZDoom but the latter are planned to appear (I'm assuming he's talking about solid ones).

@All - By the way, how is this script syntax looking like? Any examples?
It has been said it's like ECMAScript. I'd wikipedia "ECMAScript syntax" to know what it's about.
Old Post 01-13-11 11:45 #
printz is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


Posts: 7042
Registered: 07-07
ECMAScript is more commonly known as JavaScript. (More precisely, JavaScript is a variant of ECMAScript.)

Aeon is at the moment based on SpiderMonkey.
Old Post 01-13-11 11:56 #
Gez is online now Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Graf Zahl
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


Posts: 7130
Registered: 01-03
Tormentor667 said:

Not yet actually, but I obviously have to :) Since which svn version is this implemented?


Since the 1.5.6 release although I did a bugfix later which in rare situations caused some glitches. R1142 was the most recent portal related change.


Tormentor667 said:

And beyond, what about "travel-through" portals and wall portals?


I'm working on wall portal support (when I find time to actually to some work, that is) but Randy's crappy portal code in ZDoom sure doesn't make it easy to do the necessary portal recursion checks when a portal has both line and plane parts. It allows for some truly gross portal hacks that are hard to check for.

"travel-through" portals are another matter. As you can see with Eternity's linked portals it's a fairly non-trivial matter to properly support them. The Doom engine just was not made for having 2 sectors in the same x/y position.
Old Post 01-13-11 12:42 #
Graf Zahl is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Csonicgo
This post is probably useless


Posts: 3960
Registered: 03-04
I love how this turned from a "Yay, EE has a new release!" into "EE has nice features, now i want those in my port of choice so I don't have to use EE."


Actually, I don't love it. I expected it.
Old Post 01-14-11 12:16 #
Csonicgo is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Tormentor667
Senior Member


Posts: 1897
Registered: 10-00
Csonicgo said:
Actually, I don't love it. I expected it.

It's just a matter of taste in terms of color depth and newer features.
Old Post 01-16-11 14:09 #
Tormentor667 is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
printz
CRAZY DUMB ZEALOT


Posts: 6845
Registered: 06-06
Csonicgo said:
I love how this turned from a "Yay, EE has a new release!" into "EE has nice features, now i want those in my port of choice so I don't have to use EE."

I don't really like seeing you guys get defensive over a port. It happens too often and only makes Graf Zahl chuckle. Why don't you (whoever hasn't got other mapping projects running) just make maps for it and let that speak for itself?
Old Post 01-16-11 15:28 #
printz is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
esselfortium
Cumulonimbus Antagonistic Posting


Posts: 5268
Registered: 01-02
Tormentor667 said:

It's just a matter of taste in terms of color depth and newer features.

But this isn't really the thread for it, and it's rather rude. I'm going to start a derail about Vavoom in every GZDoom thread.
Old Post 01-16-11 19:15 #
esselfortium is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
kristus
Megablast!


Posts: 9683
Registered: 07-00
Tormentor667 said:

It's just a matter of taste in terms of color depth and newer features.
Take it to the (G)Zdoom forums then or at the very least discuss it in the source port section on DW...
Old Post 01-16-11 20:15 #
kristus is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Tormentor667
Senior Member


Posts: 1897
Registered: 10-00
esselfortium said:
But this isn't really the thread for it, and it's rather rude. I'm going to start a derail about Vavoom in every GZDoom thread.

Agreed, it just came up during the discussion itself, but you are right anyway.
Old Post 01-17-11 11:05 #
Tormentor667 is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Quasar
Moderator


Posts: 4615
Registered: 08-00
I don't get in a twist if (G)ZDoom comes up during discussions about EE. I'd say it's pretty natural considering that EE is about the only other active port regularly described as "advanced" in terms of its editing features. Comparisons and contrasts are inevitable.
Old Post 01-17-11 19:17 #
Quasar is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
All times are GMT. The time now is 11:47. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (2): « 1 [2]  
Doomworld Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.5 Doomworld Forums > Misc. > Doomworld News > Eternity Engine: Rebirth Released (Refreshed)

Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to this Thread

 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts 		HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are OFF
[IMG] code is OFF
 

< Contact Us - Doomworld >

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.5
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

Forums Directory