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myk
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Phobus said:
Unsurprisingly, this argument boils down to fanboys (of the style; of the .WAD itself; whatever) versus the general public.
No doubt, this argument boils down to weirdo freaks (of the style; of the .WAD itself; who cares) versus normal people.


I still think the sum total of the opposition is just butthurt.
Those pansies, they can't take it up the ass!


There's no need for so much hate and vitriol for that review when considerably worse ones are given fairly often and nobody bats an eyelid just because the subject isn't their preferred type of project.
But vitriol to respond to it is fine? It's the prerogative of each group to defend their preferences. Take them like unions in the work or business environment. And we're talking about requesting what they consider proper reviews, rather than demanding positive ones. There could be an issue if the same people were hypocritical in instances where others have similar complaints in respect to some other niche or genre, but that's another matter.


Fact is the only "qualification" anybody needs to write a review is that they have a DW forums account and can run the .WAD in the intended game mode.
To write it, sure, but that's not an immunity to criticism and debates. The idea to move aside started formally with purist's "you should have left this for someone else to review," which is advice, an opinion (of someone who claimed to not be a fan of slaughter maps) and something that may be of use to fullmetalvaran33 in future reviews, and that doesn't need to be taken to mean "you suck" or "die in a fire".


All told, fmv33 put more time and effort into that review than I've done for any of my reviews (except "Hell Awakened..."), from his account of the reviewing process, which to me just further weakens the "he didn't take the time to study" argument.
The main concrete critique related to "didn't study" was that he didn't take advantage of the demos to get a broader view of the levels, which would have approximated him to the game play aspect not hindered by apparent impossibilities. No one here is going to expect him to play every slaughter level he can find and hone his skills like a pro just to review this WAD. The critique or suggestion in the thread offers him (and anyone else, because the discussion can be of use to any of us) the opportunity to make use of that technique in future reviews.

By the way, I tend to prefer levels with more "normal" monster counts, although I do appreciate some slaughter action, and much of this WAD can make my butt hurt, and I'm not necessarily a fan of every level in the WAD.

The general audience is varied, and isn't really represented by anybody in particular. It shouldn't be used to stigmatize niche types as unimportant. Broad comments may be made to give any people an idea of the gist of a WAD, but that's not something an "average guy" can do any better than anyone else. In simple terms, comments aimed for "the average player" are something suitable for player type 5 in a hopefully concrete way, while something for the general audience suits player types 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 in a more superficial way because it doesn't have the time to address the interest of the 10 types of people at once, maybe highlighting some aspects for some player types if they may need a heads up of some sort or if they are player types more likely to download the WAD. Naturally, any review will have aspects related to the player type of the reviewer, but with experience reviewers can learn to add and sprinkle comments directed at other types, depending on the characteristics of the WAD.

Old Post 07-03-12 11:01 #
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Vordakk
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myk said:

The main concrete critique related to "didn't study" was that he didn't take advantage of the demos to get a broader view of the level, which would have approximated him to the game play aspect not hindered by apparent impossibilities.



So in summary, before anyone else reviews a wad for Newstuff Chronicles, you must watch the official demos, or else your review is null and void. Any opinion not tempered by a thorough knowledge of available demos is an inferior opinion.

I mean hey, would DOOM: Rampage Edition have been lambasted by reviewers if they'd only watched the demos??? We'll never know.


Processingcontrol said:

If hardcore slaughter fan gave a negative review I'm sure there wouldn't be this massive argument.



The most negative criticisms FMV directs at the wad had nothing to do with difficulty. Furthermore, even people on the slaughter side are agreeing, in this very thread, that the wad is a mixed bag. So essentially FMV accurately reviewed SF2011, except for saying "in my opinion, damn near impossible to complete on UV without cheats". I gotta go with Phobus, it seems like butthurt to me.

Old Post 07-03-12 12:10 #
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Belial
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j4rio said:
I'd be genuinely interested in your thoughts when you're done with it, especially if you'd be disappointed with it overall - it's not like sf is a pinnacle of slaughter stuff whatsoever.

In short, the first 7 maps suffer from copy-pasted layouts and uniform crowds with little to no infighting possible. Hordes of HKs get boring really fast.

Every attempt at sequence-breaking is met with overwhelming opposition, which makes route development mostly irrelevant. This is why I liked the more open designs of map02 and map07.

Basically, these opening maps don't have what I'm looking for in a slaughtermap. I tried them, but if I pick up say, freak4 map08, I know I'll never bother with them again. That also makes me question if it was a good idea to sort the maps by author.

Old Post 07-03-12 12:12 #
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Phml
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That also makes me question if it was a good idea to sort the maps by author.


An often expressed opinion. The map ordering the way it ended up being is one thing I pushed for and in hindsight it's clear that wasn't the right call to make. Definitely one part we can and should improve on next time.

Old Post 07-03-12 12:45 #
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dew
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Belial said:
h232, ow11, sc26, dv03, stuff like that. I'm tempted to say 1squares because it just feels so relevant when you look at maps like Lull :P

yeah, a map here and there... punisher, p232, pv32, sc30, s228, sd26, c329, etc., but you can say fully dedicated slaughter megawads are a fairly recent trend. i was questioning the validity of comparing a whole megawad to mapXY in otherwise (mostly) non-slaughter wads. it still can be done, but it has to be explained more than the vague phrase in the review.

Old Post 07-03-12 16:15 #
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Processingcontrol
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Phobus said:
Unsurprisingly, this argument boils down to fanboys (of the style; of the .WAD itself; whatever) versus the general public.

No, I'm not a hardcore slaughter fanboy. Most of the maps in the wad are unplayable for me.

Old Post 07-03-12 16:21 #
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Snakes
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Belial said:

In short, the first 7 maps suffer from copy-pasted layouts and uniform crowds with little to no infighting possible. Hordes of HKs get boring really fast.


Yeah, having sampled most of the maps last night, I can say that there is a mixture of quality and it doesn't start off on the right foot. There are, though, some winners mixed in from thereon, particularly phml, Danne, and ToD's work (unsurprisingly). The demopack really does help push the player in the right direction sometimes, but even then, some involve a strategy that I imagine many Doomers would have trouble executing consistently/properly.

Old Post 07-03-12 16:32 #
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Belial
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Yeah, I liked all of Danne's maps, map11 the least due to how annoying clearing the HK ledges was. Reminded me of one similarly tedious area from Combat Shock map04.

Old Post 07-03-12 17:50 #
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Phobus
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myk said:
No doubt, this argument boils down to weirdo freaks (of the style; of the .WAD itself; who cares) versus normal people.

I'll ignore you taking "butthurt" literally and stick to this, which is the only thing I take exception to in that response - I'm using "fanboys" more as a classification than a derogatory term. I'd have used "n00bs" or "newbs" in place of "general public" like some early comments did, but that'd be woefully inaccurate.

The reliance on demos for a "proper" review just further polarises this discussion into two irreconcilable sides, as we're taking a niche game play style and then saying you need to be part of a not-necessarily-related niche of the Doom community to truly appreciate it if you can't beat the whole thing legitimately, whilst I'm still advocating that anybody should be able to pick it up and give their opinion, particularly as we've clearly had that in the past with different niches (indeed, shitty jokeWADs in this very /newstuff or Doom: Rampage Edition, for example) and the complaints, if there were any, were similarly dismissed by people coming from my POV (although I may have been amongst the fanboys in some instances). Yes, that opinion (and the conveyance thereof) is open for criticism, as is that criticism and so on (leading to examples like this thread), but like with most arguments on the interent, people are so entrenched in their views that no side will ever truly sway the other, even if the majority can't be bothered any more or it's just one or two very vocal people on one side.

I'm tempted to just agree to disagree now that the heat of the argument has died down, to be honest. I'm right in my mind and I've seen nothing to reasonably persuade me to change that view-point - I've also seen I won't be changing anybody elses mind this time around, particularly as people keep falling back on critical thinking ideals (always pretentious, IMO) and trying to make people's phrasing or arguments appear irrelevant or absurd (a sign that one can't find a legitimate disagreement if there's no real flaw).

Old Post 07-03-12 18:51 #
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Doomguy 2000
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Processingcontrol said:

No, I'm not a hardcore slaughter fanboy. Most of the maps in the wad are unplayable for me.



Then why make a big deal over this?

Old Post 07-03-12 22:32 #
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Use3D
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Vordakk said:

My side has already won, all your side can do now is argue in circles or pretend that I'm a troll so you can claim the high ground.




Vordakk said:


So in summary, before anyone else reviews a wad for Newstuff Chronicles, you must watch the official demos, or else your review is null and void.



Whoa hey, you're back? I thought you won this argument. Does this mean you un-win? Can you decide when to stop and keep going regardless of what is actually being posted? What an amazing feat you've discovered. I have an idea, wouldn't it be easier to just decide that you've won every internet argument ever and simply stop posting?

Old Post 07-03-12 22:37 #
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TimeOfDeath
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Thanks for playing, Belial. I was also in favor of sorting maps by author - I don't mind it myself, but I think SF2012 should use a different method this time. It would be great to have some Belial maps in there too, eh? :)

Old Post 07-03-12 23:06 #
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dew
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Phobus said:
The reliance on demos for a "proper" review just further polarises this discussion into two irreconcilable sides, as we're taking a niche game play style and then saying you need to be part of a not-necessarily-related niche of the Doom community to truly appreciate it if you can't beat the whole thing legitimately, whilst I'm still advocating that anybody should be able to pick it up and give their opinion, particularly as we've clearly had that in the past with different niches (indeed, shitty jokeWADs in this very /newstuff or Doom: Rampage Edition, for example) and the complaints, if there were any, were similarly dismissed by people coming from my POV (although I may have been amongst the fanboys in some instances).

it took me some time to track down the end of this sentence, but hell yea, i made it! rocknroll!

i have a simile for you. imagine this is a movie conversation, slaughterwads would literally translate to slasher horror or splatter action or something. absolutely a niche genre with its own cult following and genre rules and strong incompatibility with the mainstream taste. now the line assembly reviewer, say roger ebert, is screaming "oh my god, it's so disgusting and unrefined!" see, i can respect roger ebert as a massive personality in the movie industry, but when he reviewed kick-ass, he just stepped into something his old fart brain couldn't comprehend anymore. he should've spared us the embarrassment of not understanding any of the genre basics or the appeal of gratuitous violence and swearing by a 10yo girl. he just made a terrible review for people like him who wouldn't care about the movie anyways - and he pissed off the rest.

and you are roger ebert getting it wrong.

Old Post 07-03-12 23:46 #
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Vordakk
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dew said:

i have a simile for you. imagine this is a movie conversation...



The basic premise of DOOM wads having the same ranges of genre as movies is horribly flawed, thus the simile fails at its nascence. As much as we love this game, it's pretty rare that a pwad manages to go way out into left field(but for the record, it's awesome when they do). Slaughter wads aren't some cryptic, mystery-shrouded form of level design, appreciable only by experts. Get real. It's basically a normal wad with lots more monsters and slightly different rules for item placement and architecture. Furthermore, this notion that FMV looked at SF2011 and simply couldn't comprehend it doesn't hold up, especially since many of the critiques given by FMV are echoed by slaughter enthusiasts in this very thread.


dew said:

slaughterwads would literally translate to slasher horror or splatter action or something.



So a pwad like Suspended in Dusk would be...a romantic comedy?


Use3D said:

Whoa hey, you're back? I thought you won this argument.



As long as they keep getting back up, it's fair game to knock them down. You don't want me to respond? Stay the fuck down.

Old Post 07-04-12 00:32 #
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Gez
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A big difference here is that critics like Mr Ebert are well known personalities whose job is to review movies, whether they like these movies or not. And there are plenty of other reviewers out there.

So you can judge a movie from Ebert's review even if know your tastes diverge from his on certain points. And you can look at more specialized reviewers too.

Now the newstuff chronicles? First, it's not a professional thing, secondly there's no established reviewers, and finally, there's no other review out there. I mean there are some websites that feature reviews of Doom wads, but they tend to be about what the site owner likes rather than everything new from the last few months.

Slaughterfest 2011 isn't the first, nor the last, wad that'll be reviewed by someone who doesn't really like the genre. And no, studying the mod and its development history and watching its demo collection on the DSDA is really, really overkill for a t/nC review. That's something you'd do for a full-fledged review, like kmxexii's, or for an article on the Doom Wiki. Not for something that's supposed to be between one and three paragraphs, in the middle of a dozen other reviews, which have to be written within a day or two of claiming the slot. These reviews are meant to be quickly read and summarize what's new.

Old Post 07-04-12 00:38 #
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Tango
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*reads the first few reviews, sees comment count afterwards*

"why the hell are there so many comments? i was just on this site the other day. must be a controversial review or something. oh yeah. the slaughterwad got reviewed. so that means Phml and ToD must be involved, which means dew is probably arguing against them or the reviewer. and since there's an argument, Vordakk probably jumped in and told everyone to fuck off, and then by the third page or so, myk is probably making large-worded posts that i'll probably stop reading after the first sentence, even though i try really hard to get through it all every time."

do i get a gold star?

Old Post 07-04-12 06:00 #
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Processingcontrol
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I think you just won the thread. :P

Old Post 07-04-12 06:02 #
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jongo
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He forgot to mention that now everyone argues about different things now, focusing on reinterpreting the opposing's side analogies and providing their own with little relevance to the actual review, getting carried further and further away.

Old Post 07-04-12 06:51 #
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Phobus
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dew said:

i have a simile for you. imagine this is a movie conversation, slaughterwads would literally translate to slasher horror or splatter action or something. absolutely a niche genre with its own cult following and genre rules and strong incompatibility with the mainstream taste. now the line assembly reviewer, say roger ebert, is screaming "oh my god, it's so disgusting and unrefined!" see, i can respect roger ebert as a massive personality in the movie industry, but when he reviewed kick-ass, he just stepped into something his old fart brain couldn't comprehend anymore. he should've spared us the embarrassment of not understanding any of the genre basics or the appeal of gratuitous violence and swearing by a 10yo girl. he just made a terrible review for people like him who wouldn't care about the movie anyways - and he pissed off the rest.

and you are roger ebert getting it wrong.


What, am I suddenly in with a shout at redemption again? Also, congratulations on validating my whole "fanboy" statement by making out that people who aren't fanboys of the genre or niche must obviously be unqualified in some way and therefore have an invalid opinion.

I get it, alright? I understand fully that you'd love to have an in-depth analysis that truly compares Slaughterfest 2011 against other maps in it's niche, preferably written by somebody who knows all there is to know about that niche. It'd be nice if all projects could get such love. End of that day, that isn't ever going to happen on any kind of reliable basis in /newstuff, for reasons I and Gez have already said, so what you'll get is some complete random making subjective, perfectly legitimate reviews from his more "mainstream" or "average" POV which the majority of players outside of the niche will be able to relate to, understand and appreciate, as we have here in this /newstuff, while people (you in this instance, Doomguy 2000 when it's his .WADs and some ZDoomers when something like Hell's Twisted Influence 2 gets done by dethz0r(sp?) or whatever) who are in the niche are just left to complain that the reviewer doesn't "get it".

@Tango: No gold star for robot boy you, as ToD isn't arguing in this thread :P

Old Post 07-04-12 08:24 #
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printz
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Is there any chance that we are here for a revolution? How about changing the newstuff reviewing system so only qualified players (but still more than just one designated guy) can review certain maps?

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Old Post 07-04-12 09:13 #
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Gez
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Seems like a good idea if you like having a backlog of two years and counting.

Old Post 07-04-12 09:36 #
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Snakes
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printz said:
Is there any chance that we are here for a revolution? How about changing the newstuff reviewing system so only qualified players (but still more than just one designated guy) can review certain maps?

There's no way a system of that nature would work for the simple fact that defining a "qualified" player is near-impossible to do. Hell, FMV has played plenty of WADs (from what I can surmise), so why would he lack any qualifications? The truth is that there is no real basis on what makes a player qualified to review. Is it having a demo recorded to one's name? Well, there go a bunch of people right off that bat. Post count? Has nothing to do with how many wads one has made or played. General attitude of the community? One word: heh.

There's nothing wrong with the current /newstuff system from my point of view. Some may throw their hands up in protest, but I can't help but notice that a good number of these people on both sides of the argument have done little-to-no chronicling.

As for this idea that only niche-players should review their niche-wads... That just doesn't make sense to me. All a review need to be good is to mix the objective and subjective efficiently, which the sf2011 review didn't really do all of that well. Had I never heard of or played Slaughterfest, I would have believed from that review that some maps are genuinely incompletable due to bugs or difficulty, which isn't true.

It's a very minor but important technique that I feel many should remember in the future: acknowledge the intended audience. Seriously, the difference between a flat-out flame war and a civil discussion can be the use of a phrase such as:

"[Niche-wad] players may find a lot to enjoy from this, but as someone on the outside looking in, I didn't find much/anything to enjoy."

Of course, this won't kill of flame wars or anything, but at least it shows that the reviewer was approaching the wad with a somewhat open mind. Keeping /newstuff open is the only way to ensure that no part of the community gets a guaranteed snub when a certain project gets released.

Old Post 07-04-12 09:41 #
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Phobus
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Gez said:
Seems like a good idea if you like having a backlog of two years and counting.

Entirely clogged with multi-player mapsets, weapons mods and niche megaWADs, if the things that people (including me) ignore are anything to go by.

Old Post 07-04-12 10:04 #
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myk
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Note that part of what does clog the list is precisely niche WADs. But it's easier to see you can't play a CTF WAD than a "normal WAD that has slightly different monster placement and architecture... and 'doomgod' difficulty."


Vordakk said:
So in summary, before anyone else reviews a wad for Newstuff Chronicles, you must watch the official demos, or else your review is null and void.
That 's not a summary, but it could be the interpretation of someone with an extremely flaccid reading comprehension. If the difficulty is impossible for the reviewer, it's simply not going to be a good review for the people that can actually play the level, unless you find some other way to judge playability. Another option could be to ask a more skilled friend who played it for some info on game play, and improve the review with that.


The most negative criticisms FMV directs at the wad had nothing to do with difficulty.
The difficulty aspect was covered in its own way, but "slaughter fan" refers more to liking and knowing about slaughter maps and what slaughter fans are into.


Furthermore, even people on the slaughter side are agreeing, in this very thread, that the wad is a mixed bag. So essentially FMV accurately reviewed SF2011,
Two people can say "the WAD is a mixed bag" and completely disagree on the reasons why. Perhaps their "rating" would be equal, but that's not what we're arguing about.


Phobus said:
I'll ignore you taking "butthurt" literally
It's called hyperbole. You use a stronger image to highlight or mock what was already implied. Butthurt is a derisive term that means feeling dramatically offended by something, especially when it's expressed with whining and the like.


which is the only thing I take exception to in that response - I'm using "fanboys" more as a classification than a derogatory term.
While occasionally friendly, the term fanboy is widely used to disqualify people by making them look biased and niche-dependent precisely against a supposed norm. The discrimination is heightened by the additional "butthurt" and the fact you're presenting an either/or proposition. In practice, the complaint by "slaughter fans" was simply that their appetites weren't addressed by the review, irrespective of anything said that may appease others. You can have both unless, perhaps, you think the niche guys are worthless.


The reliance on demos for a "proper" review just further polarises this discussion into two irreconcilable sides,
Again, it's proper for the slaughter fan which was complaining, although covering all the key bases you avoid valid complaints. I explained how to cover multiple views and to add depth where required at the end of my last post, versus a "point-of-view" comment where "type 5" reviews as such for whoever sees things the same way or something that's only generic.


then saying you need to be part of a not-necessarily-related niche of the Doom community to truly appreciate it if you can't beat the whole thing legitimately,
What was said is that you may need to be familiar with the niche to transmit a review of any use to those in that part of the community.


whilst I'm still advocating that anybody should be able to pick it up and give their opinion,
They can, but complaints may arrive, unless they just make a comment on the database or the comments thread. "Being able to pick it up and give an opinion" means just that, not that others have to shut up when someone does it.


I'm tempted to just agree to disagree now that the heat of the argument has died down, to be honest.
The best way to agree to disagree is to see how different viewpoints, or their best aspects, can coexist, like when you make a review that addresses both a general audience and any corresponding niche.


Vordakk said:
It's basically a normal wad with lots more monsters and slightly different rules for item placement and architecture.
You mention two things, but the review that does address slaughter fans would pay special attention to the "slightly different rules." Even if defined that way, slight rule changes can make a big difference. I mean, you start with generic comments, and then end up with some judgments that will mostly be relevant to speed runners and slaughter fans, for instance, which would likely want to pay attention to this WAD.


dew said:
but you can say fully dedicated slaughter megawads are a fairly recent trend.
This one may be the first to openly exploit the "genre" as an objective. Historically, the WAD can be seen as a community attempt to experiment and examine what makes a "slaughter level" in practice. See, this is the kind of questioning and thinking that would have somehow been present in a good review, aside from more practical playability considerations.


Gez said:
And no, studying the mod and its development history and watching its demo collection on the DSDA is really, really overkill for a t/nC review.
Wait, don't forget browsing the forums for every discussion about slaughter maps ever posted, and interviews by PM to all the possible slaughter fans and gods!


Not for something that's supposed to be between one and three paragraphs, in the middle of a dozen other reviews, which have to be written within a day or two of claiming the slot.
We were talking about an alternative to fullmetalvaran33's review, which has like a dozen paragraphs. Holding on to a review for a very long time is an annoyance, but claims can easily be extended by clicking on relinquish and then claim, if one needs more time.


These reviews are meant to be quickly read and summarize what's new.
They're reviews, not just recommendations for users. Aside from new players, those who already played the WAD, designers and testers also stop by to check what's going to be said about the WAD, which adds reasons to imply more than just "you should/shouldn't download this," advice those people don't need. We're all more or less "expert reviewers" here, anyway, potentially adding our take here or on the database.

Lastly, even if we can't and shouldn't expect reviews to become perfect, I'm posting these comments because I find the debate refreshing and I like it, not out of necessity.


Phobus said:
End of that day, that isn't ever going to happen on any kind of reliable basis in /newstuff, for reasons I and Gez have already said
It happens often. Gez just said it won't happen every time, which is obvious and irrelevant. It didn't happen this time, hence we complained to encourage it to happen more, and we even gave tips on how to make it happen. Your response is more or less "take back your critique!" Fuck that. Another way of putting it is, "you guys complained about something but next time we will do everything the same way."

There are other possible replies without feeling forced to anything or losing pride, like "okay, slaughter guys, thanks for the input, complaints and concerns, we'll see if we make any use of them next time a niche WAD shows up!"

Old Post 07-04-12 10:30 #
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Vermil
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Phobus said:

Entirely clogged with multi-player mapsets, weapons mods and niche megaWADs, if the things that people (including me) ignore are anything to go by.



I repeat my comment at the top of the thread when Fullmetalvaran33 made a similar comment about the large number of MP wads that are not being reviewed.

EDIT: My mistake, it turns out that I posted it at the top of the last newstuff:
http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthr...312#post1083312


Vermil said
Doomworld is primarily an SP orientated forum.

Where as SP players hang at both Doomworld and port forums, MP players tend to solely base themselves on the MP ports forums.

Two solutions are for either Doomworld or Newstuff to change; that Doomworld fosters an Doom MP community or that Newstuff 'unattaches itself'* from Doomworld and becomes some sort of cross forum effort and the resulting reviews posted in every Doom forum.

*The ID games database may be hosted by Doomworld, but it is 'unattached' to the rest of the site, if you get what I mean.[/B]

Last edited by Vermil on 07-04-12 at 10:41

Old Post 07-04-12 10:34 #
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fullmetalvaran33
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printz said:
Is there any chance that we are here for a revolution? How about changing the newstuff reviewing system so only qualified players (but still more than just one designated guy) can review certain maps?



Phobus said:

Entirely clogged with multi-player mapsets, weapons mods and niche megaWADs, if the things that people (including me) ignore are anything to go by.



I think printz and Phobus have some good points. I have noticed that the MP/Coop/DM/CTF WADs, the weapons/item/monsters mods, and the like tend to get ignored often, and this slows down newstuff chronicles released since they just...sit there so long, unreviewed. Maybe these WADs should be reviewed by a specific group of users who are into them? I don't know if it will work but maybe it's something worth trying, seeing as how they only cater to a select few?

As for everything else, I think that they should be left open for any and all users to review. I think it's more fun and free that way, and allows for a variety of opinions and ideas to come through in newstuff. Not every review will be perfect, but users can only get better at it by practicing more and more. Plus, reviewing can be tough but if someone's willing to take the time and try it, I think it's a nice idea.

Old Post 07-04-12 10:46 #
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Phobus
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myk wrote:

Far too much

Fuck responding to all of that. Congratulations, you "win" because I've lost interest. FWIW, I already know what hyperbole and butthurt mean and don't need them explained to me as part of your condescending* and pretentious** attempts at using semantics*** and nigh-on-philosophical arguments**** to detract from a point that is rarely any actual part of the issue at hand.*****

*acting in a manner that implies a kind-hearted superiority
**acting as though you are notably superior in some manner when this isn't the case
***the meaning/interpretation of words/phrases
****arguments that break things down to such fundamental or abstract terms as to be all-but-meaningless in context
*****There, see? I can do it too. This hasn't improved my stance in any way and instead makes me look like a condescending and pretentious wanker

Old Post 07-04-12 12:03 #
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Vordakk
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Gez said:
Seems like a good idea if you like having a backlog of two years and counting.


He's right. Recently, some dedicated people(FMV among them) have been doing a great job in their spare time of trying to clear out the backlog of unplayed wads, so that now we're pretty much only 2 months behind. And suddenly whiners insist on instituting "reviewer rules", either limiting which types of wads a certain person is allowed to review, or causing people to research wads as though they were writing a college term paper. If this system were adopted, it would ultimately result in a massive loss of progress, all because some people are writing reviews which don't meet certain "gold standards of excellence". As I look on page 1 of the comments, I see three different people tell FMV she shouldn't have reviewed SF2011 because she wasn't a god. My question to them would be, "Then why the fuck didn't you or someone godly enough to play the damn thing write the review in February or March??? Why was it allowed to sit there until July?" Maybe...just maybe, FMV figured no one wanted to review it, and thus did the review herself to keep things moving along.

A quote from the bottom of the /newstuff page:

Does your wise ass think you can write better reviews than these jerkoffs? Then get over to the /newstuff Review Center and help out. I know you must have a Doomworld Forums account because you like griping about every edition in the comment thread...

Christ in a Cadillac, guys. I see ignorant or lackluster /newstuff reviews slip under the radar constantly, and no one bats an eyelid. But whenever it's done, even ever so slightly, to a slaughter-style wad, people suddenly act like you insulted their mothers. If you're gonna whine, at least be consistent about it.

Old Post 07-04-12 12:25 #
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Phobus
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Thank you, Vordakk, for really outlining why fmv33 is in no way wrong to have done that review and bringing the argument back down to reality. Its nice to see somebody focus on the real issue rather than arguing tangential points of minimal relevance.

Old Post 07-04-12 12:35 #
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fullmetalvaran33
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Vordakk said:

A quote from the bottom of the /newstuff page:

Does your wise ass think you can write better reviews than these jerkoffs? Then get over to the /newstuff Review Center and help out. I know you must have a Doomworld Forums account because you like griping about every edition in the comment thread...



Has it always said that? I thought it used to be something different, but I never paid close attention to what it said. I think it's...kind of funny myself. I mean, it makes an interesting point.

Old Post 07-04-12 13:05 #
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