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Bastet Furry
THE WERELION


Posts: 908
Registered: 09-02



Dragonsbrethren said:
Something like that never should have made it into the getwad program in the first place.

In his defence i assume that it was just an oversight, could have happen to everyone.
The next version should had come with an internal blacklist that blocks doom.wad, doom2.wad and the others, tough.

Maybe i write a Perl version of getwad some day, just for the heck of it and having a FOSS version of it.
With a blacklist, of course.
Main problem, even Joe Average could locate the "my @blacklist = qw("doom.wad", "doom2.wad" ...etc...)" and edit it. ;)

Old Post 09-09-12 02:07 #
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AlexMax
Senior Member


Posts: 1114
Registered: 01-03



Bastet Furry said:
In his defence i assume that it was just an oversight, could have happen to everyone.


It's not an oversight.

Old Post 09-09-12 02:26 #
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Kilgore
Newbie


Posts: 9
Registered: 09-05



Dragonsbrethren
Just an FYI, you're not doing yourself any favors in the eyes of a neutral observer. Especially that first link; very valid criticism. Something like that never should have made it into the getwad program in the first place.
Considering that getwad/zdaemon NEVER distributed the wad, and it basically asked google (or other, unrelated to ZDaemon sources), then... if you say that getwad should block the download of some wad, then why don't you ask Microsoft to block the download of that file from IE? why don't you ask Google to remove links to it? why don't you ask Mozilla to block it from Firefox? why does ZDaemon have to be held to a higher standard than everyone else?

I'm tired of this hypocrisy: people tearing their clothes about some 18-year old WAD when the entire net is so full of warez and other stuff. I am to believe that these people complained to ID because of their moral objections? yeah. Right. Everyone can see their moral fiber for himself. The simple truth is that they tried to smear and cause trouble to me and ZDaemon about getwad. And the fact that ID didn't react, tells you that there was no legal basis to it. If you feel otherwise, be my guest and go ask ID again. But then... if the rightful owner does not object, then what is Ralphis' interest in it? in fact, does he have any legit interest in it? I'm afraid there is a term for all that and it's called "intellectual dishonesty".

Old Post 09-09-12 02:34 #
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AF-Domains.net
Warming Up


Posts: 12
Registered: 09-10



CKeen said:
You know, I got banned from #zdplayers for pointing out that AF-Domains had control over the bot but that was years ago and I really don't care at this point.


If it's something you don't care about, why mention it?

Since you haven't replied to the PM asking about the nickname you used, I can only guess at this stage that it was CKeen. If it wasn't, feel free to reply back to it and indicate what it was, and/or even a date.

I've taken a look through the available logs here.

As far as I can tell, what you indicate did not happen.

Old Post 09-09-12 02:36 #
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Dynamo
Newbie


Posts: 5
Registered: 04-10



AF-Domains.net said:

If it's something you don't care about, why mention it?


Because I was, umm, trying to pull off something like "hey I got banned too, but even if I did I'm not being hostile towards you, see?". It was some sort of half-baked attempt to actually defend you guys, that's why I brought it up.

In any case the nick should have been the one I'm using now (which I stopped using a while ago), if I was using some other nick at the time then I really don't remember what it was. I'd further like to note that I didn't mean it to be an accusation towards anyone.

Although you know what yeah you're right, I shouldn't have mentioned that was it was fairly pointless anyway. Still does not invalidate the rest of my post though.

Last edited by Dynamo on 09-09-12 at 02:51

Old Post 09-09-12 02:45 #
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AF-Domains.net
Warming Up


Posts: 12
Registered: 09-10


In any case, as indicated: None of the logs indicate anything of the kind occurring.

No mode changes, kicks, removes or kills turned up in the results pertaining to the name CKeen (or [FL]CKeen, [TNT]CKeen).

The dates:
june 4th 2007
june 7th 2007
june 11th 2007
june 20th 2007
june 27th 2007
july 11th 2007

Old Post 09-09-12 03:05 #
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Dragonsbrethren
Senior Member


Posts: 2398
Registered: 03-09



Kilgore said:
Considering that getwad/zdaemon NEVER distributed the wad, and it basically asked google (or other, unrelated to ZDaemon sources), then... if you say that getwad should block the download of some wad, then why don't you ask Microsoft to block the download of that file from IE? why don't you ask Google to remove links to it? why don't you ask Mozilla to block it from Firefox? why does ZDaemon have to be held to a higher standard than everyone else?

I'm tired of this hypocrisy: people tearing their clothes about some 18-year old WAD when the entire net is so full of warez and other stuff. I am to believe that these people complained to ID because of their moral objections? yeah. Right. Everyone can see their moral fiber for himself. The simple truth is that they tried to smear and cause trouble to me and ZDaemon about getwad. And the fact that ID didn't react, tells you that there was no legal basis to it. If you feel otherwise, be my guest and go ask ID again.


The difference here is that those browsers aren't distributed inside the package with the engines designed to play the game you're pirating. And you know that; you're not a five year old child. Let's say I don't own Final Doom, and I connect to a server running Plutonia 2 - now I have a pirated copy of Plutonia, probably without even knowing it if I'm the average user. Would it have really been that hard to check the MD5 hash of the file (or hell, even the filename like Bastet suggested, it's better than nothing) and chuck it if it matches any of the iwads? Of course it wouldn't. The fact that there is other pirated software on the internet changes nothing; it's solely the GetWad devs' responsibility to prevent this from happening.


Kilgore said:
But then... if the rightful owner does not object, then what is Ralphis' interest in it? in fact, does he have any legit interest in it? I'm afraid there is a term for all that and it's called "intellectual dishonesty"

I have no idea what the beef between you, Ralphis and the others is, and frankly I don't really care. I just find it hilarious that you link to a thread, which raised a legitimate concern (regardless of who wrote it), and tried using it to bolster your own argument. It's a real shame id didn't end up doing anything; I think you could've used the wake up call a C&D against ZDaemon would've brought. There's really no moral ambiguity here like there is in most cases of games this old; Doom's about as far from dead as a game as old as it can be.

Old Post 09-09-12 04:31 #
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BloodyAcid
Senior Member


Posts: 1301
Registered: 09-11


Oh yay. ZDaemon 1.09. Right after I installed the older verion a wee bit ago to get some CTF practice. Now I'll have to install another one.

Old Post 09-09-12 06:34 #
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Ladna
Member


Posts: 286
Registered: 04-10


I'm trying a new riff called "you idiots". Let me know what you think.

=== vectors.cpp is simple, trivial math

vectors.cpp is copy/pasted from Q2. This proves one of two things:

- the whole time you guys have been saying "there was never GPL code in ZDaemon" you were full of shit
- the whole time you guys have been saying "we've been over every line of code in ZDaemon and there was never any GPL code in our codebase" you were full of shit

Who knows which one it really is, but it doesn't matter. The result is the same (you're full of shit).

It's also worth saying that even if it were really simple & trivial (and there's nothing that hard about vector math), you guys didn't even bother to change the API or anything. U.S. courts actually agree that APIs can be copyrighted (see Oracle v. Google), so I guess what I'm saying is fuck you guys, you're retarded. No judge or jury would find that vectors.cpp doesn't require licensing, you idiots.

=== butthurt this, butthurt that

It's particularly rich that you keep this up, considering you're the one holding onto links from 8 years ago and handing out masterbans for people you just don't like, i.e. anyone who lets on that KilgoreQuotes exists. "ROFLBAAHAHA KILGORE IS SO BUTTHURT".

Classic example of ZD hypocrisy, you idiots.

=== GetWAD

GetWAD didn't blacklist doom2.wad because ZD devs and admins wanted people to be able to play ZDaemon without having to buy Doom.

I had to berate ZD devs in every possible forum before they would finally admit the only reason their source is closed is that they want complete control over their community. Hopefully we can skip that on this issue and just admit that you guys wanted people to play ZDaemon without having to buy Doom.

The whole "why don't you get IE to block downloads of copyrighted material" is such a terrible analogy, either you guys are full on stupid or maliciously disingenuous. IE is a general purpose web browser, it has no business blocking downloads of anything. How would it even do this, SHA256 hash? Wow that file would get pretty big....

GetWAD is a specialized WAD downloading tool. It doesn't download pictures of naked goats (I know what they do in Greece, you goddamn sicko), it doesn't download bombmaking materials, it downloads WADs. Why don't you blacklist the 6 WADs that are copyrighted by ID, you idiots?

=== Hypocrisy (everyone pirates)

Nope. I bought Ultimate Doom, Doom II, Final Doom, Heretic, and some terrible bunch of WADs I can't remember the name of. Actually I bought Doom II and Doom 95. Some of us legitimately love Doom, you idiots.

=== ID didn't react, therefore we're cool

No, it means you're so pathetic they didn't waste their time, you idiots.

=== ZDaemon can't be GPL if it contains Heretic/Raven code

That's actually the point we're making. 1.06 is illegal. Think about it for like 5 seconds, you idiots.

=== Closed source prevents cheating and various attacks.

Good news everyone! Call up Valve and ID tell them you solved the cheating problem, I'm sure they'll be thrilled.

Call up Microsoft and tell them they can stop investing in security. All they have to do is close the source to their programs and they don't have to worry about DDoS attacks or security vulnerabilities.

This is obviously not true, you idiots.

=== Forking is bad

Forking is bad for you, then again you suck and suck bad, and we therefore don't give a shit about you, you idiots.

=== Blah blah "our place", "our code"

No one's dictating anything. We're calling you names, and refusing to let you rain down a torrent of obvious lies and bullshit without strong and furious objection, you idiots.

=== Etc.

You guys should really consider who you're pissed off at here. AlexMax has created some of the most classic Doom CTF maps ever. He's been a tireless advocate for the Doom community in every port, even single-player ports. He was instrumental in opening Skulltag's source code, he's been a great Odamex dev, and he's all around an outstanding community leader. You really fucked up when you threw him out of ZDaemon, you idiots.

Ralphis started the most popular event in multiplayer Doom, despite being entirely underground and banned from the then-most-popular port at the time. He also founded an entirely separate c/s source port that ultimately stole the majority of your playerbase from you. You really fucked up when you threw him out of ZDaemon, you idiots.

I ran the most popular ZDaemon servers for years. I spent thousands of dollars and thousands of hours supporting ZDaemon. I wrote stats generation software, server management software, and supported the competitive community - ZDDL and IDL. I'm also a reasonably accomplished developer in my own right, having at least the chops to look through your codebase and find GPL code (something that you guys obviously failed at). You really fucked up when you threw me out of ZDaemon, you idiots.

HumanBones ran ZD tournaments and ZD events for years. He moderated the ZD forums for years. He's well-respected in all circles and has proven his dedication and ability over and over again. You really fucked up when you threw him out of ZDaemon, you idiots.

===

Upon reflection, the "you idiots" riff makes me come off as more pissed than I am. I'm not pissed at all, I'm actually just amazed you guys think anyone buys this bullshit.

- It's obvious you guys still have vectors.cpp in current versions of ZDaemon, considering you didn't even know about it and even after you were made aware you argue that it's not covered by the GPL. By itself that means you're obligated to open the source.
- It's obvious you guys had GetWAD download IWADs to make it easier to pirate them.
- It's obvious you guys closed ZDaemon's source to prevent forks and therefore to exercise complete control over the ZDaemon community.

I wish we could start with the facts here, and move on like reasonable people. Instead we just get bluster ("trust me, we did our research"), incorrect information ("vectors.cpp is effectively public domain"), egregious nonsense ("AlexMax & Ladna == Joseph Goebbels"), and lies ("ZDaemon was never GPL").

People don't disrespect you because they're assholes, they disrespect you because you're assholes. Not that I think me saying it will make a difference, but I think someone should tell you all the same.

Old Post 09-09-12 07:43 #
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