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Coolster
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printz said:
What the hell are you talking about?

1. Genuine original Doom IS the one for DOS. All the ports are by third parties with their subjective fixes. Be thankful they even put DOSBox there.

2. Doom95 can be used for multiplayer. And if it cannot now, it was definitely possible to play it over non-IPX network, while I couldn't do that with Doom.



Sure Geniune original Doom is the one for DOS but come on, that's just lazyness, Dosbox is not made by them to begin with and is it really that hard to make i don't know, working Windows XP/Vista/Seven executable? I do understand we got ports already and fans can do these things themselves, but i call it cheap tactic anyway.

As for the new episode for Doom 3 while it is nice to see new content, we need to wait before we judge if it's even worth the money. The only thing that i miss for Doom 3 anyway is Resurrection of Evil (being Polish doomer sucks, thanks to our distributor LEM we didn't got it here). Oh well i guess it is new package for those who (for some god forsaken reason) didn't played Doom series at all.

Old Post 09-06-12 17:43 #
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printz
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Blzut3 said:

Ultimate Doom was a lazy release to me so yes this is lazy. The difference for me is I'm not saying they "got" lazy. They always were.

Ingrate. Maps are maps, and Doom³ maps are maps³.

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Old Post 09-06-12 18:01 #
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Caffeine Freak
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printz said:
Ingrate. Maps are maps, and Doom³ maps are maps³.


This is the quote of the day for me.

Old Post 09-06-12 18:36 #
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prdarkfox
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printz said:
Ingrate.

Do you always talk like that to other people?

Old Post 09-06-12 19:15 #
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TheDarkArchon
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printz said:
1. Genuine original Doom IS the one for DOS. All the ports are by third parties with their subjective fixes. Be thankful they even put DOSBox there.



Yes, everyone, be THANKFUL that id would include DOSBOX in the release because, you know, working out of the box is such a underdone thing these days.

Old Post 09-06-12 20:15 #
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printz
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prdarkfox said:

Do you always talk like that to other people?

No, it's just that he called lazy the designing of 9 new free maps (the E4 maps; which weren't bad at all).

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Old Post 09-06-12 20:29 #
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julz_d
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Nice how they removed the Xbox 360 D3 coop. Now I'm debating doing a pre-order at all.

Old Post 09-06-12 22:19 #
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hardcore_gamer
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julz_d said:
Nice how they removed the Xbox 360 D3 coop. Now I'm debating doing a pre-order at all.


Xbox 360 never had a co-op. Only Doom 3 for the original Xbox had co-op, and it was because the levels them self's had been changed to take 2 players into account. The BFG version uses the PC version of Doom 3 so it can't. Also the co-op was online only anyways.

I also am really loving all of the "OMFG THIS SUCKS!!!!" complaints so far. This version includes both Doom 3 and RoE plus a whole new chapter for Doom 3, improved graphics and Doom 1 and 2, all on a single disc that carries the price of a budget game. And yet people are still whining and talking about how "horrible value" this game has.

I guess people will use every chance they have to complain.

Old Post 09-06-12 23:14 #
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Arch-Valentine
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I was actually more curious to know if the extra Doom 2 episode that came with the xbox version is coming to PC, but since it hasn't ever been mentioned I guess its not? I've been playing Doom 2 on xbox and is it me or does it feel more genuine than even Chocolate Doom? Like all the colors are darker and the sounds have alot of weight to them like the original/Doom95 had? What version is Doom Xbox using? I tried looking on the doom wikia but its not loading for me right now.

Old Post 09-06-12 23:19 #
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Blzut3
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printz said:
which weren't bad at all

Never said they were bad, just said it was done pretty lazily. The new artwork is just modified versions of the E3 end screen and a grey scale version of the Doom 2 intermission.

Granted it's not the worst case of laziness at id. It's just something that's easy to equate to Doom 3 BFG. (Still no word if existing Doom 3 customers have to buy again is there?) The title for laziest release probably has to go to the Master Levels. They couldn't be bothered to make a level progression for the PC release and for the console releases they just slapped them in alphabetical order (besides two random cases on the PS). Not to mention they couldn't be bothered to include them in the Doom Collector's edition either.

Final Doom has some cases of laziness on id's part. Even though we know patched iwads exist in some copies of the id Anthology. Of course id wouldn't bother releasing patches. I would complain about the fact that they essentially come down to new levels for Doom 2, but I don't know if Team TNT was offered any flexibility in things like the secret level positions or if they would have taken the offer it was.

Or how about Wolfenstein 3D? For the later releases they removed the Read This since it contained out dated information (never mind the fact that it's just the same as the shareware's RT) as well as the AARDWOLF sign, but in the process they ended up screwing the intermission breathing animation. Guess they couldn't be bothered to test it?

Oh yeah, what about the recent Quake 4 re-release for the Xbox 360? Couldn't be bothered to patch any of the flaws that people complained about the first time around?

Basically my point is every time id try to do a quick (re-)release there are easy to pick out details that just look lazy. Don't get me wrong, I'll take what I can get, but I do have to wonder about some of the exclusions.

Old Post 09-07-12 00:10 #
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Vermil
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Well, neither the Master Levels, Final Doom or NRFTL were made by ID themselves.

Doom95 also wasn't made by ID, but Microsoft.

These Lost Missions for Doom3 are being made by ID themselves.

Last edited by Vermil on 09-07-12 at 00:36

Old Post 09-07-12 00:28 #
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Caffeine Freak
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Blzut3 said:
Oh yeah, what about the recent Quake 4 re-release for the Xbox 360? Couldn't be bothered to patch any of the flaws that people complained about the first time around?


id didn't make Quake 4, Raven did.

EDIT: Also---


Blzut3 said:
Final Doom has some cases of laziness on id's part. Even though we know patched iwads exist in some copies of the id Anthology. Of course id wouldn't bother releasing patches.[/B]


Every id game since Quake has received patches at one point or another. Are you really focusing on this one particular instance, where the product in question wasn't even developed by id, and overlooking every game they've made in the years since?

Last edited by Caffeine Freak on 09-07-12 at 01:06

Old Post 09-07-12 00:54 #
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hardcore_gamer
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Blzut3 said:

(Still no word if existing Doom 3 customers have to buy again is there?)



Why should people who bought Doom 3 get the BFG edition for free?

It would be like if I were to claim that because I bought Doom, then that would mean I were somehow entitled to a free copy of Doom: The Collector's edition.

Old Post 09-07-12 03:25 #
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Blzut3
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hardcore_gamer said:
Why should people who bought Doom 3 get the BFG edition for free?

Doom -> Ultimate Doom

I'm of course not trying to imply that I think those with Doom 3 should get RoE, Doom, and Doom 2 for free. Just the new levels and the engine enhancements. Or even just the new engine at the very least.

Old Post 09-07-12 03:45 #
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chungy
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I agree it'd be nice to simply apply a patch on top of old Doom 3 to get the new one... I wouldn't even mind it being a cheap expansion/"DLC" to buy.

$30 for games I already own though, it's hard to justify. Even if it's Doom.

Old Post 09-07-12 09:28 #
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Glaice
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I think they re-released this way too late, considering Doom 3 was released in mid 2004, and it is now 2012, 7 1/2 to 8 years later. They could have done something like this in 2008 at the very latest, not almost a decade after product release.

Old Post 09-07-12 20:45 #
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Sodaholic
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God, you guys are bitchy. id doesn't even have to make this, and given their situation, it's far more than they'd normally be allowed to do. They're creating a whole new levelset (and mind you, on an engine that takes much more work to create a single map than the original Doom), and they've updated an old engine of theirs, and you guys are getting all bent over "BAH, TOO LATE, NO PC MULTIPLAYER".

You have to consider that we're not the target audience. We're a small but dedicated community of enthusiasts for the old games. id is targeting this at the general public (we're far from being that), to get Doom into the public eye again for their upcoming release of Doom 4. It's a product for marketing purposes, and given that that's its purpose, they've put a lot of work in and bonus content for something they could easily skim on and do a half-assed release if they wanted to.

The reason they're not doing PC multiplayer is because the original executables use outdated protocols. The reason they don't have Doom 3 co-op is because this is the PC version of Doom 3, the Xbox version was 3rd party.

If it doesn't appeal to you, fine, I'm not terribly interested in it either, but just accept it for what it is, and acknowledge that they put much more effort than needed into it.

Old Post 09-07-12 21:59 #
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Dragonsbrethren
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Sodaholic is the voice of reason in this thread. Let that sink in for a minute.

Old Post 09-07-12 22:02 #
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chungy
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Sodaholic's post basically summerizes to "You all should be grateful id is doing this for you and no one should ever show disappointment or anything else less than eternal gratitude"

Old Post 09-07-12 22:03 #
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Sodaholic
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chungy said:
Sodaholic's post basically summerizes to "You shouldn't whine that id is doing this for the general public and you should not show disappointment for something that isn't even for you"

FTFY

Seriously, though, this is a side project of theirs. Is the id anthology a bad release? Is any other rerelease package a bad thing? No. If you already own the games in question, and don't care for the new additions, then shut up, you're not the target audience. Different target audiences have different needs, and we're not the target audience.

Considering who it's for and why it's being made, it does an excellent job and it goes above and beyond the requirements. If we were the target audience, you'd have a right to complain about some of the points, but the people this is really aimed at don't want the missing features, nor do they likely care that much.

Old Post 09-07-12 22:09 #
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Graf Zahl
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It's a cheap shot and people realize that. Why waste money on such a product?

Old Post 09-07-12 23:04 #
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printz
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Graf Zahl said:
It's a cheap shot and people realize that. Why waste money on such a product?
I guess it works better for those who do not have Doom. The thing that bothers me is that they change Doom 3's mechanics (or don't they?)

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Old Post 09-07-12 23:16 #
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Sodaholic
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I'm not saying that this overall release isn't a cheapshot. By all means it is. I'm just saying that as a cheapshot, it goes above and beyond what would normally be expected of a typical cheapshot. My point was that since this cheapshot will actually be of use to newbies/casuals that don't already have the games and want to familiarize themselves with the first-party Doom franchise content (and collectors), it's a very well made product for that purpose, and that people outside that very specific target audience shouldn't really complain, since it wasn't even supposed to be made with their interests in mind.


printz said:
I guess it works better for those who do not have Doom. The thing that bothers me is that they change Doom 3's mechanics (or don't they?)

They do change the mechanics, IIRC. I think that the original game is probably still going to be available to people, I don't see why it wouldn't be.

Old Post 09-07-12 23:25 #
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Caffeine Freak
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printz said:
The thing that bothers me is that they change Doom 3's mechanics (or don't they?)


Yes, the flashlight will be useable in conjunction with weapons.

Old Post 09-08-12 00:30 #
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printz
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And the game will be brighter too, no? Will there be checkpoints? That is what sucks, that save-scumming becomes automatic.

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Old Post 09-08-12 00:32 #
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Caffeine Freak
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Regarding checkpoints, I don't believe so. Brightness, yes. They're also being more generous with ammo, though I never thought they were stingy with it in Doom 3. Maybe with a few types of weapons.

Old Post 09-08-12 01:12 #
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DoomUK
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To all the people asserting that Doom 3 and coop aren't compatible: clearly none of you have played OpenCoop. It's a blast. Of course due to the narrow corridors and such there's instances where things gets a little cramped, but that's all part of the fun. id must have their reasons for not making it an official multiplayer mode, but I don't understand them.

But what truly mystifies me about this is their belief that Doom 3 was too easy, so they're making BFG edition (even) easier. Why?


Sodaholic said:
If it doesn't appeal to you, fine, I'm not terribly interested in it either, but just accept it for what it is, and acknowledge that they put much more effort than needed into it.

Indeed, why criticise or review anything? Why not just shut down all human interaction by having everyone accept everything and never invoke discussion and debate?

Last edited by DoomUK on 09-08-12 at 09:05

Old Post 09-08-12 08:49 #
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printz
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Caffeine Freak said:
though I never thought they were stingy with it in Doom 3. Maybe with a few types of weapons.
They were stingy with ammo in Doom 3 Resurrection of Evil, but that was a problem if you avoided the Grabber and the Artifact, which is a legitimate challenge to undertake.

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Old Post 09-08-12 09:04 #
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kristus
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printz said:
And the game will be brighter too, no? Will there be checkpoints? That is what sucks, that save-scumming becomes automatic.

Doom3 Always had checkpoints. Only they were called autosaves, and they only saved when you switched map.

printz said:
They were stingy with ammo in Doom 3 Resurrection of Evil, but that was a problem if you avoided the Grabber and the Artifact, which is a legitimate challenge to undertake.

They were more stingy in RoE compared to Doom3. But still there were plenty to go around for the most part.

Old Post 09-08-12 09:48 #
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printz
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kristus said:

Doom3 Always had checkpoints. Only they were called autosaves, and they only saved when you switched map.

That's rare enough to make the game challenging.

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Old Post 09-08-12 10:26 #
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