The /newstuff Chronicles #418

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Processingcontrol
Senior Member

Posts: 1481
Registered: 09-10

Doomguy 2000 said:

I tried to be nice with my opinions on Expired License as far as the hard work is concerned but, the way I look at things it seems like something that caters more to the Doomgods (Salughterfest people), than the casual players. If I were reviewing the wad, my opinion would not be much different than Major Rawne's. Sure I would check out the final exam portion and tell people how I feel about them.

The difficulty level of a wad is never a good thing or a bad thing per se; what really matters is how the difficulty is achieved. A wad's difficulty is basically just a feature, just like what source port it's for. The fact that a wad's for zdoom, vanilla, boom, etc. isn't a positive or negative by itself, and whether it's hard or easy isn't one either.

10-16-12 03:04 #

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MajorRawne
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We come around to what a review actually is, which is the reviewer's personal opinion of the wad. It is not some politically correct bullpat that creeps around the the question of whether the reviewer thinks it is worth playing. It should not be bland and passionless. Who wants to read something that is neutrally-written and frankly boring?

If it's the reviewer's opinion the map is too hard, that is the reviewer's opinion. It doesn't matter what a Doom God thinks, they're obviously not going to find it challenging. What percentage of us are Doom Gods again? (I.e. can complete Hell Revealed on Nightmare without dying!) If they want their opinion known, they should have written the review!

So while Myk suggests my CChest4 review is not as good as someone else's, and I agree there is too much digressing at the beginning of it, the actual review gets me pumped to download and play CChest4 (depite already having played it through), it will surely be of interest to the CChest team and those who were interested in the project, and therefore that is the kind of review that is needed. It's honest, it's informal and when it's on track it is far from boring.

If someone isn't going to respect a reviewer's opinion, for example about Expired Licence (a review I already admitted I messed up by forgetting to include a mention of the Final Exam which doesn't even make any difference to my final opinion), then don't read the reviews - just play the wad yourself. I'm not sure what about this is confusing people.

10-16-12 20:02 #

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j4rio
Senior Member

Posts: 1801
Registered: 07-10

The best reviews for me are the ones not cluttered with personal preferences, remaining at neutral level through majority or whole monologue. I could try and review something just for the hell of it. Any guide on how to?

10-16-12 20:13 #

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Grazza
Inventor of "Y Y" to quit

Posts: 11783
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j4rio said:
I could try and review something just for the hell of it. Any guide on how to?

This post I made ten years ago might be useful.

10-16-12 20:19 #

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BloodyAcid
Forum Regular

Posts: 926
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It's easier to bash a wad, I prefer to stick to shit :)

10-16-12 21:27 #

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Snakes
Forum Staple

Posts: 2044
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Grazza said:
This post I made ten years ago might be useful.

/newstuff:

The usernames change. The drama remains the same.

10-16-12 22:13 #

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kmxexii
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Posts: 804
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I doubt most people new to Doomworld are breathlessly anticipating the next installment of Newstuff. I think they probably knock around for what's considered the "canon" of Doom PWADs and start from there. I know that's what I did. Newstuff is to me more like something veteran users check out in case they missed something on the archives (it's been known to happen) or want to check out the drama generated from conflicting reviews. I could of course be completely wrong.

I don't think that reviewers should avoid making some kind of qualitative judgement on whatever they play, whether they enjoy it or not. Like any reviewer, readers will get a feel for what tastes the author has and then put the review in context. As an example, I know MajorRawne really dislikes "slaughter" (speaking very generally) WADs and primitive (~'94) levels, so if he trashes something on either of those bases (like OH GOD REVENANTS or OH GOD ARCHIVISTS) I'll take it with a grain of salt, especially if I know I like WADs along those lines.

If that's pretty much the only thing the author says, of course, that isn't quite as helpful.

10-16-12 23:02 #

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MajorRawne
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Kmxexii, that might be the best post in the thread.

You're not the first person to say the drama in the comments can be more entertaining than the reviews. That proves my point about the reviews, though. The reviews should, in a perfect world, be strong enough to overshadow anything that might happen in the comments.

That's personal preference though. Others would disagree and prefer a more clinical analysis of the wads, which would have the knock-on effect of reducing "comment drama" (to coin a phrase). This would seem to represent a failure in terms of readability or entertainment and would not, IMO, constitute a good or even passable review.

As for bashing wads, some reviewers avoid doing this altogether which is wrong. Some go all out to bash everything which is also wrong. "Bad" wads should only be ragged if it's ancient and the author is not around to be offended (or won't care 18 years after he made the map), or if it is terrible beyond redemption such as the Terry wads.

10-17-12 00:24 #

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Solarn
Member

Posts: 510
Registered: 09-08

kmxexii said:
I doubt most people new to Doomworld are breathlessly anticipating the next installment of Newstuff. I think they probably knock around for what's considered the "canon" of Doom PWADs and start from there. I know that's what I did. Newstuff is to me more like something veteran users check out in case they missed something on the archives (it's been known to happen) or want to check out the drama generated from conflicting reviews. I could of course be completely wrong.

I don't think that reviewers should avoid making some kind of qualitative judgement on whatever they play, whether they enjoy it or not. Like any reviewer, readers will get a feel for what tastes the author has and then put the review in context. As an example, I know MajorRawne really dislikes "slaughter" (speaking very generally) WADs and primitive (~'94) levels, so if he trashes something on either of those bases (like OH GOD REVENANTS or OH GOD ARCHIVISTS) I'll take it with a grain of salt, especially if I know I like WADs along those lines.

If that's pretty much the only thing the author says, of course, that isn't quite as helpful.

Actually, that's wrong. For one, a lot of people who don't regularly post on Doomworld and just browse it from time to time probably get their idea on what WADs to download from T/nC. I know I did and often still do. For another, most people don't have the ability to read reviews critically and even if they did, there's no guarantee that they'll be aware of a particular reviewer's history and preferences. They won't go "Oh, MajorRawne hates slaughtermaps and bashed this map for having too many revenants, it might be worth checking out if I'm into that style." They'll think "This guy feels he's got enough authority to review WADs and he hated this one, it must be really bad."

10-17-12 00:54 #

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kmxexii
Forum Regular

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Solarn said:

Actually, that's wrong. For one, a lot of people who don't regularly post on Doomworld and just browse it from time to time probably get their idea on what WADs to download from T/nC. I know I did and often still do. For another, most people don't have the ability to read reviews critically and even if they did, there's no guarantee that they'll be aware of a particular reviewer's history and preferences. They won't go "Oh, MajorRawne hates slaughtermaps and bashed this map for having too many revenants, it might be worth checking out if I'm into that style." They'll think "This guy feels he's got enough authority to review WADs and he hated this one, it must be really bad."

I can see that, but very few people were working through the Newstuff backlog, a point which comes up pretty much every time Bloodshedder posts something contentious, and I'll put myself firmly behind the tagline.

Let me guess; one of those reviewers doesn't know how to properly appreciate a WAD that you liked this week. Want to do something about it? Instead of complaining in the comment thread like you always do, perhaps you can make a difference and write some better reviews than those idiots up there.

10-17-12 01:13 #

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MajorRawne
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In reference to what Soda and kmxexii have said, it's no wonder people don't do the reviews. People don't want to take on a 10-30+ map wad which they must play through in just a couple of days, only to generate hysteria. Some people can't handle that - or don't want to.

The comment drama, when it occurs, overshadows the other reviews. This time around, I'm the only reviewer who has received any useful feedback and even then it's mainly been about one review out of the dozen or so published.

It's "great" to spend eight hours working on a review (including play time, researching info etc - yeah, the reviews are "full" of "misinformation" taken directly from the text files and project threads), only to have that review overlooked in favour of two paragraphs about something that wasn't worth ten minutes -- and I spent a lot longer than that playing ToD's wad.

10-17-12 14:07 #

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j4rio
Senior Member

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Your other reviews were also painful to read, I just didn't feel the need to point it out. It wasn't as much in need of pointing out as a failure of ignoring content within wad.

There you have it. :)

10-17-12 14:19 #

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MajorRawne
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The world according to j4rio, who doesn't even know how to write a review. This is always going to go round in circles.

EDIT: My apologies for the sarcasm, I don't want to start another fight.

10-17-12 14:28 #

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j4rio
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Posts: 1801
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I asked for a guide on how to submit, not write one. Just a bit misunderstanding.

10-17-12 14:30 #

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myk

Posts: 14804
Registered: 04-02

I suspect most people don't do reviews often, or at all, because many other activities in the community are more fun, and it takes time. That's my case.

The chronicles may help some people decide what to download, but it's also a place to encourage thought and debate (whether it's taken as relatively serious discussion, entertaining drama or both) on WADs and WAD design, either on specific WADs released or general topics stemming from their release, plus the activity of reviewing or judging WADs itself.

10-17-12 14:38 #

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MajorRawne
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Well, whatever you do, you will need to develop a thick skin for reviewing! As long as you are taking in the more useful feedback in this thread, you should be fine. If you do write a review I'll give an unbiased opinion, actually trying something new is worth brownie points.

10-17-12 14:39 #

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GreyGhost
a ghost... only grey

Posts: 6857
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j4rio said:
I asked for a guide on how to submit, not write one. Just a bit misunderstanding.

Start here. IIRC, you can only have 2 claims at any time and they expire after 72 hours. There's also a screenshots guide in the Review Center, if you haven't already found it.

10-17-12 15:18 #

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TimeOfDeath
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Posts: 2004
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MajorRawne said:
only to have that review overlooked in favour of two paragraphs about something that wasn't worth ten minutes

Hey MajorRawne: fuck you.

10-17-12 15:55 #

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BloodyAcid
Forum Regular

Posts: 926
Registered: 09-11

GreyGhost said:
Start here. IIRC, you can only have 2 claims at any time and they expire after 72 hours. There's also a screenshots guide in the Review Center, if you haven't already found it.

3 total pending claims.

10-17-12 20:19 #

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Krispy
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MajorRawne said:
It's "great" to spend eight hours working on a review

There's no way in hell.

10-17-12 20:23 #

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MajorRawne
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Krispy said:
There's no way in hell.

Is there a planet where people can complete a megawad plus read all about it plus write a lengthy review in less time? I'm... not from there.

10-17-12 20:57 #

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Memfis
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playing != working, playing is fun :)

10-17-12 21:13 #

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Krispy
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MajorRawne said:

Is there a planet where people can complete a megawad plus read all about it plus write a lengthy review in less time? I'm... not from there.

I thought you were referring to another wad. In that case 8 hours is reasonable. But yeah what Memphis said.

10-17-12 21:27 #

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Phobus
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Krispy said:

There's no way in hell.

They can take SO much longer...

10-17-12 23:25 #

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dew
Feral Kid

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MajorRawne said:
Is there a planet where people can complete a megawad plus read all about it plus write a lengthy review in less time? I'm... not from there.

please. PLEASE don't tell me you "processed" cchest4 in mere 8 hours, including playtime. that's disgusting.

10-18-12 02:18 #

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MajorRawne
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Of course I didn't process it all. I look forward to a second playthrough, taking my time over it. All I said was the review process took around 8 hours.

10-18-12 16:58 #

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