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Julian


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Jamie Robertson sent us words about two DOOM-related features found in the PC Gamer magazine of this month:

DOOM is #1 under the 'Weapon of Choice' from any game category with the Shotgun,
DOOM is also under the 'Reviewer of the Month' section, with a review of Doom Legacy by Will Watson.

Doom is still hot, hot, hot.

Old Post 04-01-02 12:58 #
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dsm
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WHAT!? Half Life is no. 1 in the top 100 list of games???
And how can both Q3A and CS be ABOVE Doom on that list?? They should be shot!

I can't find the "weapon-of-choice" feature though.

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Last edited by dsm on 04-01-02 at 16:56

Old Post 04-01-02 14:27 #
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læmænt
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ROFL

The first five games in their top 100 ALL SUCK

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Old Post 04-01-02 15:15 #
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Erik
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hahahaha, this list must be an april fool's joke or something (and I am not only talking about Doom being #20). Baldurs Gate 2, the worst buy I ever made in spot #3, yay... way to go PC gamer.

Old Post 04-01-02 15:55 #
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dsm
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The stuff about the "weapon of choice" and the Legacy review must be an Aprils fool joke, since I can't find any of 'em.

God I hate April 1.

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Old Post 04-01-02 16:58 #
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NiGHTMARE
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dsm: that's obviously because you're reading PC Gamer US, not PC Gamer

erik: how the feck can you say that? In my opinion (and clearly the people who wrote the article), Halife-life is the best FPS ever made (yes it is better than Doom, get over it already), Deus EX is the best first person RPG ever made, and Baldur's Gate 2 is the best third person RPG ever made. Clearly the writers of the article shared somewhat similar views.

I do disagree with Shogun though; I can think of lots of strategy games that are much better (Civilization 2 being one), and Counterstrike is clearly only there to keep the thousands of CS obsessives happy.

Also, how can you complain that Doom is "only" at 20? For a game that's around eight years old, that's pretty f**king good if you ask me.

Looking at the bottom 25 games (i.e. 75-100), I can see many games that are newer than Doom that were huge hits for a long time after their release; I mean, Starcraft at 75? Worse still, Dungeon Keeper at 98?!? So Doom has definitely done pretty well for itself.

Bear in mind too that all these games are in the list for the games themselves, not the unofficial user add-ons for them. If it wasn't possible to create new levels for Doom, I doubt many of us here in the Doom community would even still be playing it.

Admittedly there is a lot of fluff in this top 100, but as this is compiled by several people, and everyones' tastes change, that's only to be expected. You can't simply dismiss it because it doesn't completely reflect your own opinions.

Last edited by NiGHTMARE on 04-01-02 at 17:48

Old Post 04-01-02 17:23 #
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dsm
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Originally posted by NiGHTMARE
dsm: that's obviously because you're reading PC Gamer US, not PC Gamer

Well, I followed the link.

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Old Post 04-01-02 17:44 #
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NiGHTMARE
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Well, something can't really be "in" a website, which would appear to suggest that the articles are in the magazine itself ;)

Old Post 04-01-02 17:46 #
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Crendowing
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Originally posted by NiGHTMARE
In my opinion (and clearly the people who wrote the article), Halife-life is the best FPS ever made (yes it is better than Doom, get over it already
Both you and them should be drug out into the street and shot without mercy.

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Old Post 04-01-02 19:13 #
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dsm
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Originally posted by NiGHTMARE
Well, something can't really be "in" a website, which would appear to suggest that the articles are in the magazine itself ;)

I can't really see the point of posting a link to the web page when it's only in the mag.
But I guess it's just me...

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Old Post 04-01-02 19:24 #
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Lord FlatHead
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Half-Life is the best FPS ever. Doom is the greatest FPS ever.

And that fucking settles it.

Old Post 04-01-02 19:36 #
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NiGHTMARE
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Ratings out of 10

Doom

Gameplay: 9
Level design: 4
Weapons: 8
Enemies: 8
Textures: 7
Sound: 6
Music: 6
AI: 3
Story: 5
Potential for modification: 9
Overall: 67/100

Half-life

Gameplay: 8
Level design: 7
Weapons: 7
Enemies: 6
Textures: 6
Sound: 7
Music: 4
AI: 9
Story: 8
Potential for modification: 7
Overall: 69/100

Old Post 04-01-02 19:43 #
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Linguica


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Originally posted by NiGHTMARE
Ratings out of 10
Wow, you're the hardest grader I've ever seen, here I was thinking that Doom and Half-Life were two of the best FPSes ever made, but turns out they're both quite mediocre.

Old Post 04-01-02 21:59 #
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Lord FlatHead
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Originally posted by NiGHTMARE
Doom - Potential for modification: 9
Half-Life - Potential for modification: 7



You're a loony. Half-Life is much more customizable than Doom will ever be. Hell, you can't even easily put floor textures in a wad.

Old Post 04-01-02 22:32 #
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læmænt
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Originally posted by FlatHead
Half-Life is the best FPS ever. Doom is the greatest FPS ever.



And that fucking settles it.

No, it doesn't.

HL is not bad, but.... uhh....

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Old Post 04-01-02 22:39 #
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NiGHTMARE
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You're a loony. Half-Life is much more customizable than Doom will ever be. Hell, you can't even easily put floor textures in a wad.

Ever heard of source code? You can modify Doom in literally any way you want to. You could turn it into an on-line turn based strategy game if you really wanted to.

In fact, the only reason I didn't give it 10/10 is because you actually have to have a pretty high IQ to modify the source ;)

As for floor textures (correct name: flats), it's been incredibly easy to put news ones in wads ever since the early versions of WinTex arrived.

Old Post 04-01-02 23:21 #
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Wow, you're the hardest grader I've ever seen, here I was thinking that Doom and Half-Life were two of the best FPSes ever made, but turns out they're both quite mediocre.

Heh, I don't think I know of any games that would score over 70 on this system, so 67 and 69 are actually pretty good scores. I mean, I've never played a single game that even begins to approach what I feel would be my "perfect" game (see below):

I guess it does leave plenty of room open for future games, and I won't really have to reduce the scores over time. Ever seen a magazine re-review an old game? Often they give games they originally gave 90+ something in the low 60's.

Anyway, if there's any individual score (as opposed to overall score) on either you disagree with, let me know, otherwise the overall scores stand :)

Here's what you could take from current games to make something approaching my idea of the perfect game:

- The graphical part of the Quake 3 engine, plus the stuff from the Serious engine that the Q3 engine is lacking (such as detail textures)
- The AI of the marines in Half-life
- The EAX support of Thief 2
- The atmosphere of System Shock 2
- A basic D&D style system allowing for player (and enemy) stats, experience and levelling up, etc
- Suitable music (either metal, industrial, ambient or drum 'n' bass, depending on the current environment, plot, etc) that is dynamic like in many recent FPS's.

Last edited by NiGHTMARE on 04-01-02 at 23:44

Old Post 04-01-02 23:25 #
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læmænt
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Originally posted by NiGHTMARE


- A basic D&D style system allowing for player (and enemy) stats, experience and levelling up, etc



NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooo!!!

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Old Post 04-02-02 00:21 #
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TheRequiem
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Quite honestly... I have never liked or even appreciated PC Gamers reviews. They all sucked, I dissagreed with them all (literally) and when I use to buy their magazines I would be pissed at the poor reviews they gave to my favorite games and good reviews to "shit" games. Therefore, Doom will always be #1 TO ME!!!

Old Post 04-02-02 04:19 #
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dsm
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Originally posted by NiGHTMARE

- The AI of the marines in Half-life


Allow me to laugh: Ha..Ha...Ha.
The marines in Half life have pretty shitty AI - I can pump them full of rounds from my hiding spot without alerting them to my presence, and as Zaldron once said: the Half-life marines' AI is basically a bunch of scripted events.
Have you ever tried Opposing force? That mission pack proved to me that the marine AI in Half life is total arse. I would position my NPC marines somewhere to shoot down any enemy I would lure into the area and what happened? As soon as they saw the enemy THEY BEGAN TO RUSH TOWARDS THEM INSTEAD OF OPENING FIRE! Real marines would just sit tight and gun down the enemy as soon as he showed his ugly mug, but they absolutely had to act like total morons, running into my/the other marines line of sight getting shot in the back by my own gunfire or the other marines' gunfire.

No, give me RtCW's nazi ai any day - they don't run into their buddies' line of sight, they open fire as soon as they identify you as hostile and they employ different tactics from time to time, making them unpredictible.

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Old Post 04-02-02 13:40 #
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I agree DSM, Half lifes marines were never smart, just scripted. hell if you read the tutorial for worldcraft (the copy that comes with boxed HL) they practically tell you how the "AI" in Half-life works.
Newer games have come out with better AI, and they're still rubbished next to Half Life's AI. I mean come ON! Half life was good a few years ago. But it's hardly the best anymore, and I've yet to see anything else from valve that can prove HL wasn't a fluke. Mind you, this is IMO. Also, on my opinion...PCGamer UK, is a rather dodgy magazine...PCGamer Us on the other hand..is much better...there was once an Australian version, but I'm not sure what happened to it..PCpowerplay/Atomic are the best local mags here...IMO of course.

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Old Post 04-02-02 14:42 #
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NiGHTMARE
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PC Gamer US is rubbish compared to the UK (original) edition. They take themselves way too seriously, and the little humour that they do use is pathetic to say the least.

There's also been many allegations that they're not adverse to taking backhanders from the games industry either...

Oh, and if you're talking AI, Medal of Honour's is much better than RTCW's.

Old Post 04-02-02 15:45 #
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Well, I'll have to take your word for it about. MOH:AA, I haven't played it, and really, I don't ever intend to. RTCW had decent AI in my opinion too.
also about the PCgamer, ah really...Haven't heard that before. Though I still prefer PCG US to UK, matter of taste really. As I said, earlier..I like the local magazines better.

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Old Post 04-02-02 15:59 #
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NiGHTMARE
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Heh, you really should consider getting MOH:AA you know. It's better than RTCW in every respect, except for the graphics. Not that RTCW is bad though, far from it, it's just that MOH:AA is even better ;)

It's worth getting just for two missions alone: one which is a recreation of the Normandy landings, and another one in which you get to drive a German King Tiger tank and blow up all the buildings in a village, and later on in a small town ;)

It also takes much longer than RTCW to complete. RTCW was, in my opinion, WAY too short.

Old Post 04-02-02 17:40 #
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I dunno, I've seen MOH in action, I do agree it might be cool...but nah, I'll probably pick it up in a year or so, but for the moment, I'm enjoying Jedi Knight2. :)

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Old Post 04-03-02 10:37 #
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MORBIDTWATT
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half life aint shit compared to doom..trust me i own every fps shooter known to man well actually almost all i still need like a couple more but other than that i know what im sayn...doom is god...i dont care if its a port or just the original i dont care doom owns and im gonna play it for life...no other game can make me feel what doom made me feel i never forgot that feeling of the first time ive played it...screw you llamas who doubt the power of doom...you camperstrike llama halflife new gen babys you all suck dont ever put half life and doom in the same room...doom owns...halflife sucks

Old Post 04-04-02 02:59 #
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Liam
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Why does everyone praise Half Life? It's easily one of the WORST FPS games ever.

Old Post 04-04-02 03:48 #
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NiGHTMARE
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It's funny how all the people who say Half-life sucks never actually say HOW or WHY it sucks, isn't it? During it's most popular period, Doom had it's fair share of people who said that it's crap for no other reason than because everyone else liked it, and it sounds to me as if you're doing exactly the same thing with Half-life.

A game that nearly everyone likes, if not loves, apart from a few people such as yourselves, can't really suck, now can it? Everyone praises it because they think it's a good game, whereas you don't. So what. Get over it.

I think you need to learn the difference between FACT and OPINION.

Last edited by NiGHTMARE on 04-04-02 at 10:15

Old Post 04-04-02 10:10 #
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LorD BaZTArD
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Nightmare, that's so true it's not funny..I never hear a good reason to hate Half-life, heh I wouldn't believe liam on this anyway..He say's he likes Daikatana...but If I remember correctly he bases his opinion of the game ON A DEMO, I mean he may have played the full game by now, but you can't base any opinion of a game over a demo.

The main reason I hate Half-life now, is valve are sitting on this and haven't done anything except commercialise a few mods. I havent seen any OTHER game from valve yet, just rehashes/Re-releases every six months. Even then, most of those are done by Gearbox, gearbox even did the PS2 port of half-life, I reckon Gearbox are a better developer than valve ever will be. Gearbox are to valve like Raven is to id. IMO.

oh and liam, correct me if I'm wrong over the daikatana thing.

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*July 1863: A nation torn in tragedy, a trick of fate and two great armies merge. The Gods of war at Gettysburg. Devastation lies ahead and fifty thousand bodies litter the land, Hell raises for three full days. The reaper sows, Now there is the DEVIL TO PAAAAY* Gettysburg 1863 Pt1: Devil to pay - Iced Earth

Old Post 04-04-02 11:13 #
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NiGHTMARE
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What about Deathmatch Classic? They clearly worked on that for quite a while, it's good, and it's free :)

Old Post 04-04-02 18:23 #
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