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purist
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kmxexii said:


To be fair, what I said is that it has "a definite, purposeful story carried through the entire thirty-two levels". I was thinking of Hadephobia as the main 32 levels and forgot to mention the three "outtakes" also included. Sploops!



Yeah, the story doesn't carry over those bonus levels so I'd say its correct. I'd also also be hesitant to describe Hadephobia as a 35 level megawad since the 3 last levels are really only bonus content.

Oh, and I'll use this post to also thank you for the runner up spot and very nice Cacowards all round.

Old Post 12-18-13 07:28 #
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savagegrant
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I'll assume that Stomper has remained unfinished given that my question has not been answered. I was the one who posted most of the Doom 20th news article links and compiled the full list that the 'Wards mentioned so I'm feeling a bit invisible. Ah well. :P

Old Post 12-18-13 09:46 #
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Memfis
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^ Yes, StomperUnfinished.wad is the last version. 23 fully playable maps: 01-04,06-07,10-18,20,22,24-26,31-32,36.

Old Post 12-18-13 10:09 #
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GreyGhost
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kmxexii said:

Shut up Brandon and get banned

Looks like you've got your wish - though he'll most likely resurface sometime next year.

The awards were worth waiting for, congrats to all the winners.

Old Post 12-18-13 11:06 #
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kmxexii
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GreyGhost said:
Looks like you've got your wish - though he'll most likely resurface sometime next year.


I was mainly exasperated at his "formal apology". Brandon is with us for life, though, and the opposite of a master of disguise.

Old Post 12-18-13 11:10 #
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Ragnor
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Props to Eris and Obsidian for getting a mention, I saw that section and guessed both of you before I read it. I always thought Scifista was an oldbie though, huh

Sucks that Doom Expanded didnt get a mention though. Maybe I should have nominated it? Its my go-to gameplay mod.

Old Post 12-18-13 12:09 #
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franckFRAG
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kmxexii said:

[...]and I'm sorry Z86, I just don't like Hellbound, but good job anyways



Too bad it is about a personal opinion.

Old Post 12-18-13 19:42 #
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j4rio
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http://i.imgur.com/Td3qhFf.png

Old Post 12-18-13 21:02 #
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Zed
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j4rio said:
http://i.imgur.com/Td3qhFf.png


To be honest, Doomguy doesn't look that old (even though it does look older). Maybe it has to do with the pixelation.

Old Post 12-18-13 21:13 #
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kmxexii
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franckFRAG said:


Too bad it is about a personal opinion.



There is nothing objective about the Cacowards, and I'm not the only person on God's green earth that had reservations about Hellbound. One of them also selected it as a runner-up!

Old Post 12-18-13 22:57 #
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FTM
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Congratulations to all the winners and runners up , and a big thank you to all who worked on the Cacowards.

Old Post 12-19-13 01:17 #
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BloodyAcid
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Congratulations to all! Cheers to another great year of Cacowards, and to look forward for when Doom can legally get drunk.

Old Post 12-19-13 03:20 #
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Zed
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kmxexii said:
There is nothing objective about the Cacowards, and I'm not the only person on God's green earth that had reservations about Hellbound. One of them also selected it as a runner-up!


I completely agree with this. We may not share the opinions of the reviewers, but a great part of the community supports their decision. Practically every one of us agrees on the awards granted to every winner and runner-up, and even though they may be a few "omissions", it's not like they're going to pass unnoticed. We all can appreciate quality.

Old Post 12-19-13 06:01 #
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Demon of the Well
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kmxexii said:
Edit: Also you can direct any complaints about Hellbound toward me, but you won't get very far because I did play it, I played all of it, and almost quit Doom again out of sheer boredom-related Doom depression. Pirate Doom and Unholy Realms brought me back, so thanks guys, and I'm sorry Z86, I just don't like Hellbound, but good job anyways

Yeah, I read the review on your blog site before I noticed that the actual Cacowards had gone up. While I don't agree with your overall summation, I can certainly see where you're coming from. Most of the fights in Hellbound are fairly simple in design and develop their character more through quantity (in keeping with the often large-scale surroundings) than through complex choreography, e.g. "here we have the teleporter flood fight, now here's the giant closet fight, now here's the big cloud of flying monsters fight, etc.", but seldom is there more than one angle to the enemies' approach/deployment in any given battle--no combination closet-teleporter-AND-flyers fights. I can see this persistently straightforward approach eventually wearing a player down to the point of apathy, particularly if they're compelled to get through the whole (quite large/long) WAD within a relatively limited span of time. For my part, I felt it was more often than not pretty effective despite its relative simplicity by virtue of its sheer bloodiness.....as one DrCrypt used to say, "It doesn't have to be fancy, just give me a really bloody level and I'll be satisfied", something to that effect. All that being said, I don't think I'd argue against the notion that Hellbound's strongest points pertain to aesthetics rather than to combat, per se.

Old Post 12-19-13 07:13 #
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Pure Hellspawn
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I can't argue for whether Concerned deserved a mention because I didn't play it


get playin then!! great mapset, you won't regret it!

also, quite surprised Hellbound only got a runner up award.

Last edited by Pure Hellspawn on 12-19-13 at 15:37

Old Post 12-19-13 14:53 #
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Foodles
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Pure Hellspawn said:

also, quite surprised Hellbound only got a runner up award.



it does seem a shame, considering the amount of work that must have gone into it even if the fights weren't always pitch perfect.

Old Post 12-19-13 16:20 #
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Darch
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Looks like Hellbound got the "Public Choice Award". Heh, maybe that could be done, when a project is acclaimed by the community, but don't really match the reviewers's opinion.

Old Post 12-19-13 18:35 #
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kmxexii
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Darch said:
Looks like Hellbound got the "Public Choice Award". Heh, maybe that could be done, when a project is acclaimed by the community, but don't really match the reviewers's opinion.


Public opinion and word of mouth trumps some articles written by a couple of guys who play too much Doom.

Old Post 12-19-13 19:57 #
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Darch
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Heh, well, there are some cases like Deus Vault 1 being a honorable mention on first Cacowards and is probably more well known then some of the winners.

By the way, thanks to all involved in this Cacowards, it was worth the wait. It was cleverly written and the Espi Award was very nice tribute.

Old Post 12-19-13 20:50 #
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Arclite
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Congrats to all the Cacoward winners! This was another great year for Doom mapping.

Old Post 12-20-13 22:51 #
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Tormentor667
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A pleasure to read, thanks a lot for your effort guys, it's always something I am looking forward to :)

Old Post 12-21-13 12:48 #
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Lightning Hunter
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I pretty much dismissed this years Cacowards when I didn't see Hellbound in it. Seriously, what a huge disappointment. I don't care if everyone liked the game play or not; you have to acknowledge how much work one person put in to the project. It's a work of art, and one of the rare Doom2 Megawads that I actually enjoyed.

Last edited by Lightning Hunter on 12-21-13 at 21:24

Old Post 12-21-13 19:25 #
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Sergeant_Mark_IV
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Hellbound not getting a Cacoward really pissed me off. I hadn't played a such immersible megawad since D2RELOAD.
But whatever man. With or without a Cacoward, Hellbound still is my new most favorite megawad ever.

Also, congrats to everyone else. Specially Darch and Terminus for Pirate Doom and Samsara. Well done.

Old Post 12-21-13 19:45 #
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Lightning Hunter
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Sergeant_Mark_IV said:
Hellbound not getting a Cacoward really pissed me off. I hadn't played a such immersible megawad since D2RELOAD.
But whatever man. With or without a Cacoward, Hellbound still is my new most favorite megawad ever.



Agreed. There are several WADs that Hellbound could have taken the place of in the Cacowards. Back to Saturn X: Episode 1 is incredible, but it is not complete! It is one episode so far. What happens when the full project comes out? Will it make the Cacowards again? I guess if a great project is released in 3 parts, it will make the Cacowards 3 times. That is kind of silly. Also, the ZDoom Community Map Project II may be great, but it's only for one port, and it's only one map. It was also made by many artists. The fact that this would be chosen over a 32-level megawad made by one person over a long period of time astounds me... Hellbound also works in just about any port. I'm not even a fan of Zdoom in the first place.

Last edited by Lightning Hunter on 12-21-13 at 22:01

Old Post 12-21-13 21:55 #
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dew
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Whew, thank you guys. I was afraid this year there wouldn't be a critical backlash about the shocking incompetence with which the 'wards were selected. All is good.

Old Post 12-21-13 22:40 #
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Gez
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Lightning Hunter said:
Back to Saturn X: Episode 1 is incredible, but it is not complete! It is one episode so far.

It is complete.

The other episodes will be separate mods. It's like saying Memento Mori, Hell Revealed, or Community Chest are not complete because they would later get sequels. Or it's like claiming D2TWID is not complete because they haven't done Final Doom TWID yet.


Lightning Hunter said:
What happens when the full project comes out? Will it make the Cacowards again? I guess if a great project is released in 3 parts, it will make the Cacowards 3 times. That is kind of silly.

It's not silly.

Cacowards have gone to projects with one (1) map in them. Examples this year include Fuel Devourer, Forsaken Overlook, High / Low 5 and Eyedea. BTSX has 25 maps. You'd say something needs to have 70+ maps before it's worthy of a Cacowards?


Lightning Hunter said:
Also, the ZDoom Community Map Project II may be great, but it's only for one port, and it's only one map. It was also made by many artists. The fact that this would be chosen over a 32-level megawad made by one person over a long period of time astounds me... Hellbound also works in just about any port. I'm not even a fan of Zdoom in the first place.

Well too bad, but being made for a single port like ZDoom doesn't disqualify anything for Cacowards. Here, take a look at the 15th, and count the Cacowards for ZDoom this year: Urban Brawl, Eternal Doom IV, Thunderpeak, BGPA, Chex Quest 3, Cold as Hell, plus Mockawarded Community is Falling 3, and honorably mentioned Diaz. Six of the main awards, and two more.

There were also Cacowarded mods for Doom Legacy (High Tech Hell 2, 12th, and Phobia: The Age, 13th) and Eternity (Vaporware, 18th). Speaking of which, Vaporware is indeed another project that's unfinished, just a single-map demo. Do you bet if the project is ever completed and released, it'll get another Cacoward? I certainly do. Only way it might not happen is if it takes so long to be finished that Doomworld will not exist anymore by then.

Hellbound was a major release this year and it certainly could have gotten a Cacoward, but the team decided otherwise. Sorry. It still got a runner-up position, and seriously, given that the only thing that could possibly matter about getting a Cacoward or not is the fame and recognition of being placed in one of Doomworld's yearly articles, that's enough.

Old Post 12-21-13 22:50 #
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Demon of the Well
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Yeah, I thought Hellbound was cool myself, and would've picked it over at least a couple of the top 10, but the notion that some moral abomination has been committed in it only receiving a runner-up mention (or, gasp, not being mentioned at all) is simply asinine, particularly the notion that it MUST be universally lauded simply because its creation presumably involved a great deal of effort on the part of its author. Hard work and 'sticktoitiveness' are fine and dandy things and all--very good subject matter for the denouements of most Saturday morning cartoons, say--but that they have transpired in no way places the final product above significant reproach or excuses it from critical examination. This similarly applies to the implied notion that something MUST be recognized simply because it has a lot of backers or a lot of name recognition, and conversely, that obscure releases are probably not of any unusual merit.

Incidentally, I've heard tell that BTSX E1 may, in fact, NOT be finished, with yet more maps inbound. Good news, I say, and it'd be illogical to hold that this should somehow categorically remove it from the table....it's cool already, where's the sense in ignoring it because it stands to get even cooler? Granted, I guess there's the possibility that the new maps might theoretically be horrible crap, but.....I'm pretty comfortable in the assertion that that probably won't happen. And even if it did, all the more reason to recognize it now!

Old Post 12-21-13 23:35 #
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Lightning Hunter
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I hope nobody thought that I was against more episodes of BTSX, or that I don't agree it is awesome. I do feel it is awesome, and I want more episodes. I guess I was just blowing smoke because I feel Hellbound should be in the Cacowards.

Anyway, you are guys are entitled to your opinions, and I'm entitled to mine. Of course, mine is the right opinion.

Old Post 12-22-13 00:45 #
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FTuma
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Honestly of the wads that didn't get a cacoward I had a lot more fun with Concerned than Hellbound. As good as Z86 is with the aesthetics and design, cannonball was with the gameplay.

Old Post 12-22-13 01:05 #
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Eris Falling
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Lightning Hunter said:
Of course, mine is the right opinion.


And this is also your opinion.

Old Post 12-22-13 11:23 #
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