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darknation
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Linguica said:
Liam spends his time every week reviewing WADs for free. Personally I think he does a wonderful job. Plus, it's not like there are so many new levels each week that you can't download them all anyway -- Liam just gives you a general idea if they're hot or not.
Agreed. Liam is a great newstuff reviewer. And his screenshots don't require radiation goggles to view correctly, unlike the previous incumbant.

Old Post 07-29-02 15:12 #
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Epyo
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Black Void said:


I thought it was good, but what was up with level 3? I saw a bad glitch in there; I didn't know what to think... Upon killing the Spider Demon, I could fully walk through a wall behind it, that was just the ultimate clippy-ness, I felt I had enabled IDCLIP when lo and behold, I didn't... that's my only pet peeve, other than that, I liked'em. Better job than I can do-
Void



hey thanks, and about that crappy wall, i spent 23 minutes trying to find out why it was like that, and i ended up giving up =D(and i thought no one would notice!


pritch said

Epyo that was a nice little wad, esp. the start, I loved the broken wall!



cool, because it took 24 minutes to make=D



anyway, i like Liam`s reviews, For my first wad`s review, he told me exactly what was wrong. I used that info to make the umbrella, which got a much better review!

....(I cant believe no one has noticed the extremely insane names to my wads).......

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Old Post 07-29-02 19:11 #
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kristus
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Oh, beleive me. I've noticed. I was checking throung newstuff last week and found umbrella. and I was. WTF, there's no umbrella in this wad.

:p

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Old Post 07-29-02 20:04 #
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Black Void
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Well Epyo, I do like the improvement over Crackers'N'Tea- I only hope my new map im making is an improvement over, "The Real Crusher". (which most of the emails i got were only saying, "WTF? What is this blasphemous name? YOU FOOL! How could you put down level 6 like this?" Well, hopefully I'll come up with a better name...-
Void

Old Post 07-29-02 20:50 #
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Ichor
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After finishing the first episode and the first couple of maps of the second episode, so far the only problem is with the music with one of the maps (e2m2 or e2m3). It was much too repetitive for me to tolerate for too long, so I just type in IDMUS. There was plenty of ammo, but not quite as much health and armor. Still it was enough. It wasn't one of those if-you-hit-every-shot-you-will-be-left-with-three-bullets-when-you-finish type games.

As for Robotic Nightmare, what it lacks in good loks, it makes up for it in gameplay. My main problem with this game isn't so much with the textures (once I figured out where everything was, I could get used to it), but he really needs to use diffiulty settings instead of making a map for each setting. That way, the same thing can be accomplished, but using one map instead of four duplicate maps.

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Old Post 07-29-02 21:13 #
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Rich
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Linguica said:
Liam spends his time every week reviewing WADs for free. Personally I think he does a wonderful job. Plus, it's not like there are so many new levels each week that you can't download them all anyway -- Liam just gives you a general idea if they're hot or not.


Linguica! Thank you for responding. This reply is prompted by your willingness to license his remarks.

I'm sure there are some who question my making a big deal out of this. After all, it's just one word or one sentence. Unfortunately, it has happened before so read on.

I can appreciate you supporting your personnel (free or not). Most good managers, employers, etc. would do the same. I'm also quite capable of reviewing the text files at 'newstuff' and making my own choice to download or not. My participation in the Doomworld forums is founded on the exchange of information and enjoying the various conversations.

On the other hand (while one or two individuals have said, 'give him a break' or in other words 'look away'), your reviewer has once again (check his first two or three weeks of reviews) proven that he is too ignorant and ill-equipped to handle the work. Again, this isn't the first time. His smart ass, subjective, belligerent remarks have repeatedly shown that he lacks the compassion, attitude, professionalism and experience to critique anything.

Perhaps those remarks are 'cool' and acceptable in a few limited circles but not so in the real world. Allow a person to demean another and you sanction prejudice, hate and ridicule. Sure, people do it - that's freedom of speech but that doesn't make it okay. Looking the other way doesn't either. Maybe the next time it will happen to you.

I realize some wads are not very good and I support a reviewer who states an opinion to that effect. To do so with diplomacy far outweighs sarcasm and the resultant effect.


Thanks,

Rich Sham

Old Post 07-29-02 21:16 #
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Vile
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Umbrella was a fun wad to play through, better than Crackers, IMO. That fake wall behind the spiderdemon was fun to play with, I went to see what was behind those metal bars (and also tried to activate the exit switch from the void, but it didn't work :).

Old Post 07-29-02 21:44 #
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magikal
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Rich said:

I realize some wads are not very good and I support a reviewer who states an opinion to that effect. To do so with diplomacy far outweighs sarcasm and the resultant effect.



Yeah if peoples wads 'suck' they should be encouraged with constructive criticism, not put off altogether.Kim's map was great fun, if nothing else.Lmps at my page.:)

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Old Post 07-30-02 00:55 #
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Jello
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2002 A Doom Oddysey <------you see that?
that's why I still play doom :)
This wad is amazing, and well deserving of any praise. I downloaded it and played straight through episode one, without stopping. I can hardly wait to see what episode two has in store for me. Sure everyonce in a while you noticed a misaligned texture, or maybe a bad texture choice, but the gameplay is just amazing. Episode one really recaptured the fun and playabilty of the original. If you haven't played this yet, do it now, or you might as well gouge your eyes out with sporks.

Old Post 07-30-02 07:52 #
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Rich
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Enjoyed playing Umbrella!

The architecture was also attractive, especially the various scenes that were presented at unusual angles - good idea! I'm reminded of looking down on the library in level 3 as one example. Another was looking down on some enemies from the top of a multi-tiered waterfall.

All in all, it looked nice and was fun to play!


*******************************************************************


2002ADO is also attractive and faithful to the original theme. I've managed to get through the first four levels of episode one and find it quite enjoyable. The design is well thought out and consistent. I also like the music as it adds an interesting and enjoyable background. As to gameplay: that's fine and is slowly but surely increasing in difficulty. I'm looking forward to continuing into e1m5.

2002ADO will be another added to my collection!


******************************************************************


Sorry, I haven't tried Nimrod as yet but, from the various comments, that too looks like a good one.

Old Post 07-30-02 08:40 #
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Anders
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Liam is NOT (and I hope he never will be) supposed to act like a kindergarden teacher. If he consistently said every map was good, I would not have much confidence in his ability to judge a map. His sarcasm and snide remarks lift t/nc from only being informative to being both informative and a fun read.

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Old Post 07-30-02 19:11 #
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geekmarine
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Has anyone beaten 2002 ado yet? My god, it just keeps getting better. I'm on e3m5, and man, it has been one of the most awesome Doom experiences I have ever had. At one point in e3, a cybie suddenly appeared, and it scared the hell out of me. I won't tell where (don't want to ruin the surprise, hehe) but god, I literally screamed out loud when it happened, because I was low on ammo and it was a fairly cramped room for a cybie. The beauty is, he's there the whole time but you don't see him until you trigger him. It's great, I just can't describe the sheer terror of it all. If anyone has been wondering if now being a Doom veteran cybie's still scary, believe me, he can be. I'm embarrassed to admit this, but I turned tail and ran as soon as I got over the shock, and just left him behind. I don't care if I left some unfinished business, the rush was just incredible, and I just kept replaying that scene over and over again in my mind. Man, there is some really creative gameplay in there, like "Shotgun Blues" where monsters randomly teleport all over the place, and you never know where they are going to teleport to. Well, that's all from me, just wanted to know if anyone has beaten it yet.

Old Post 07-30-02 19:20 #
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Virgil
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Um.. Ling? If Liam is gone for 2 weeks, who's gonna do the /newstuff?


2002ado -> My suspicions are confirmed; it DOES severely bludgeon ass. The gameplay is not just fun, it's damn good. Even if the architecture looked bad, I'd still keep this on my hard drive. Of course, the architecture is quite good, if not by a longshot like N'imrod's or Darkening 2's.

Geekmarine: Oh yeah.. I made e3m5 for this thing, so.. that Cyberdemon room, that was MY devious mind hard at work. =)

Rich: Amen to that: Liam should have found a much better way to say Kim's wad was bad. Not only did he say it "sucks", but he said that Robotic Dreams was "that fucking ugly couple of poorly textured silver platforms". I can see why the hell it may be judged as that, but maybe he should've just said it looked bad and HOW/WHY. I mean, c'mon. "fucking ugly" isn't being very helpful. What if the author is trying to improve or understand why his work isn't well liked?


Since Liam didn't do much about the wad, I downloaded the wad and played it through anyway. This is what I say about Kim's wad:

The gameplay is frantic at first, but gets very, VERY repetitive with all the plasma gun circle strafing, etc. The architecture, isn't appealing at all, but consists of black walls and some un-tilable black-and-white images that look way out of place. The choice of flats, especially on the teleporter pads, isn't helpful either. I don't recommend you download this unless you like to collect sounds/textures. Even then, the gfx/sounds in this wad don't look so worthwhile.

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Old Post 07-30-02 19:52 #
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kristus
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Mmmm Darkening E2....

Mmmm 2002 ado...

Mmmm Nimrod is finally released...

Mmmm good reviews, big in your face to everyone who said it sucked before it even was released...

Anyway... I've just played a few matches of mad Doom Dm. wich always exhaust me totally. Ok I realise that I really didn't have anything to say.

Got this though : When did we suddenly change "gameplay need to be good" to "Gameplay is all that matters. Absolutely nothing else"? Personally I think any map need both architecture that is atleast good, and gameplay that is exciting. Personally I've always tried to get good gameplay in my maps. IMO that's the best part of my maps. Weather others agree I don't know. Ok, I think I'm wandering off here.

anyway.. since when do we treat everyone like they were 3? OOh what a nice picture is that mom? oh it's me, ah yes now I see it. Of course you can be a bit nicer in reviews. But why this outrage cause Liam said a map sucks? People do it all the time in the community. So it was in the Doomworld /newstuff reviews. That's Lings problem to deal with, weather he want to support what Liam writes. Wich he evidentially do. Someone mentioned professionalism. I don't think one should pull in such words, unless the reviewer in question actually is a professional. Since Liam don't get a red cent for doing this. He can't be considered a professional. That is what usually is reffered to as amateur. (a word that sadly have become another word for looser)

So my point is. What does it matter if Liam or someone in the comments or in the forum say a map suck? I know people who've been flamed for not meeting the requirements for other doomers standards.- That's sad.

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Old Post 07-30-02 20:41 #
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Linguica


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Rich said:
On the other hand (while one or two individuals have said, 'give him a break' or in other words 'look away'), your reviewer has once again (check his first two or three weeks of reviews) proven that he is too ignorant and ill-equipped to handle the work.
Great!

Do you want to take his place? I sure don't want to.

Old Post 07-31-02 01:13 #
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Rich
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Linguica said:
Great!

Do you want to take his place? I sure don't want to.





Ling!

Your funny!

No, I'm not available to serve in that position and your much too busy.

Despite Liam's sporadic need to regress to his negative side, he has proven on occasion to be fair, interesting and even funny.

Perhaps, with a little help from some friends, he can be a bit more reasonable and allow his reviews to reflect his positive attributes via his tone and choice of words. Should that come to pass, both he and Doomworld will be all the better.


Respectfully,

Rich Sham

Old Post 07-31-02 02:57 #
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myk
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To me it's not whether Liam stays or not. I mean he's doing this freely and all he has to do is present the WADs. But if he writes like a wise-ass (and sometimes he's funny, sometimes he isn't), he will get replies. Some people on this thread are being witty I think: if you say "Liam is NOT supposed to be treating us like a kindergarten teacher" you're saying he can be as harsh as he likes... fine, but then, whoever replies has to chill and not say whatever they are inspired to say about what he posted in relation to the WADs they liked or disliked? I mean, when he's acting like a showman presenting the WADs, he's giving us his opinion, is it not expected that people will answer with theirs, possibly contrarily?

But no need to think about firing Liam or anything (or considering the possibility). All he has to say (and he does it) is "look what I found in the bag," so we can all gather here and check that out. The rest is just views and arguments; and whoever is willing will draw what is worth from them.

Ebola: yeah, neat WADs are awesome, but a crappy looking WAD with an intelligent design can entertain you for hours, while a good looking but otherwise boring one will bore you after a bit.

Heh. Well I need to go play 2002 ADO... (even if it's the beta)

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Old Post 07-31-02 03:01 #
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Virgil
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"Great!

Do you want to take his place? I sure don't want to."

Actually, I play most of the wads that get uploaded anyway, and Liam is away on a vacation, so... Yes, if you let me, I'll type up the comments and email them to you or whatever. I'm not saying I want to replace Liam, but I can also continue to do this pretty much on a regular basis as well. Totally up to you, though. Overall, Liam's been doing a good job so far.

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Old Post 07-31-02 05:06 #
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Here's my opinion about gameplay/architecture: if you only got one out of the two, you've only got half a map. And personally, I like playing a WHOLE map.

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Old Post 07-31-02 05:09 #
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All this talk is really a bit pointless, unless of course you want to take it to the next level and form a Community Review Board that adheres to certain gameplay and visual standards and doesn't allow any wad to be uploaded unless it meets those standards.

But hell, that would be fascism. That's like (no, not like, IS) saying that "If your wad doesn't meet these standards, you will not even be recognized."

It sure as hell would raise the quality of people's work, though, assuming it is worth it to the author to raise his standards in order to have his work go public.

So... unless you can change something, why talk about it?

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Old Post 07-31-02 07:22 #
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NiGHTMARE
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One of the most important skills a good level designers needs is the ability to tell whether or not their own levels look good and play well. The best way to develop this skill is simply to compare your levels with those made by other people. Try to find out what some of the best and worst released levels are, and figure out what makes them so good/bad.

Once you've done this, try to implement at least some of what you think are the good things, and try to avoid having any of the bad things. I'd say that using new textures and flats that obviously don't tile, as is done in Robotic Nightmares, is definitely one of the things to avoid.

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Old Post 07-31-02 14:40 #
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kristus
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Virgil said:
Here's my opinion about gameplay/architecture: if you only got one out of the two, you've only got half a map. And personally, I like playing a WHOLE map.


I second that.

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Old Post 07-31-02 16:17 #
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cph
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Ebola said:
[...] But why this outrage cause Liam said a map sucks? People do it all the time in the community.


Nonono, Liam absolutely must tell us when a WAD sucks. The question is, when (he thinks) a WAD sucks, should he:

1) Make sport with its faults to make it into a joke, or

2) tactfully and constructively identify its main faults.

As the /newstuff reviews are mainly for players and not the author's benefit, we have (1). Let's have a little sympathy for the author too, though :-)

Old Post 07-31-02 19:59 #
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myk
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Virgil said:
Here's my opinion about gameplay/architecture: if you only got one out of the two, you've only got half a map. And personally, I like playing a WHOLE map.


Well, sure, so do I, though I think "looks" can't add to more than 40% of a map's worth. Analogically, playability and fun are a necessity, like food, while looks are a commodity, like going to the cinema. But it occurs to me it also depends on what the map's point is, mostly it's to be played, but I wouldn't look badly upon a map made purely for aesthetic reasons, though then it would really have to shine in that respect to be worthy... but then it would be something else.

Plus "architecture" isn't the word, as that implies functionality as well as how pleasing it is to the eyes (or ears for that matter...), so the architecture of a WAD certainly has to excel in regards to item placement and working (game) tricks to be any good. It's not just "eyecandy."

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Old Post 07-31-02 23:21 #
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The Ultimate DooMer
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Hmmm, Liam's gone on a holiday for 2 weeks, I've just come back from mine.....so I've got some catching up to do. Luckily I played blinded and sin before I went and I liked them, especially blinded.

2002 ado looks class, as does nimrod. I'll try them all of course, no matter what the review says. (as I always play them all).

Then I'll start my new 9-level UD episode. (which I designed while on holiday)

Crimbo is going to be very good this year.... (just like it was last year on the wad scene)

Old Post 08-03-02 13:27 #
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Comedy Gold.

Old Post 08-04-02 21:20 #
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Ultimate DooMer said:
Then I'll start my new 9-level UD episode. (which I designed while on holiday)
I bet you finish yours before I finish mine (I'm already done with 3 4/5 levels).

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Old Post 08-04-02 22:35 #
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Virgil
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Liam: 'New-Age Retro Hippie' = an enemy in Earthbound, if I'm not mistaken.. Personally, I like the Runaway Dog / Extra Grumpy Lady. :) "The Runaway Dog is making a loud, piercing howl" ... ROFL

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Old Post 08-05-02 06:28 #
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Liam
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Yes the New-Age Retro Hippie is from EB and no I am not fucking gone for two weeks, just one

Old Post 08-05-02 08:40 #
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The Ultimate DooMer
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Archvile64 said:
I bet you finish yours before I finish mine (I'm already done with 3 4/5 levels).


I know I'm a quick map builder, but I've not started mine yet, I've only just drawn the maps. But I can say it will be my best wad ever cos I have some really cool stuff in it....

Old Post 08-07-02 23:28 #
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