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Csonicgo
This post is probably useless

Posts: 3823
Registered: 03-04

I'm not one to bitch(much(also a lie)) but what the hell happened?
http://svn.drdteam.org/eternity/

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/3804/clipboard02ok.png

why on earth? Why have a format that isn't supported automatically by the users of the OS this build is made for? Now I have to download even more software to use these builds, which I refuse to do. I don't want 7zip on my computer as I don't like what it does to the windows Shell (modifying menus is bad enough when tortoiseSVN does it, now 7zip has to mess with it).

So there. I guess I will be learning to compile the windows releases myself?

I was told that this change would only affect Zdoom and GZDoom builds. I didn't expect for them to affect all builds.

03-08-10 20:24 #

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CODOR
Forum Regular

Posts: 750
Registered: 02-06

Csonicgo said:
I don't want 7zip on my computer as I don't like what it does to the windows Shell

Tools -> Options -> Plugins -> 7-Zip -> Options -> unselect "Integrate 7-Zip to shell context menu"

03-08-10 20:50 #

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Graf Zahl
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!

Posts: 6962
Registered: 01-03

Csonicgo said:

why on earth? Why have a format that isn't supported automatically by the users of the OS this build is made for?

Obviously, because it's a lot smaller. Seriously, why should the providers of the webspace for this download have greater expenses just that some lazy dumbasses don't have to install one harmless piece of free software?

03-08-10 20:59 #

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Quasar
Moderator

Posts: 4484
Registered: 08-00

I thought this was going to be a request for .7z support in Eternity 9_9

03-08-10 21:10 #

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Csonicgo
This post is probably useless

Posts: 3823
Registered: 03-04

I see I have no say in this matter. I will ask exp[x] to make an automated building process a la Chocodoom. He was going to do one anyway. It would be more beneficial to have an automated build so mappers/users can quickly test a new feature when it's needed, and exp[x] hosts on a university server so bandwidth issues would be nonexistent.

once again, the poll held on drdteam was clear: I was told that this change would only affect Zdoom and GZDoom builds. I didn't expect for them to affect all builds. If the change was to effect all builds, it should have been stated. It was not.

Last edited by Csonicgo on 03-08-10 at 21:34

03-08-10 21:26 #

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Graf Zahl
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!

Posts: 6962
Registered: 01-03

Don't act like it's the end of the world. You sound like a total idiot. What's your problem with 7z anyway? Last time I checked you could use basically any archiving software to open such files.

Quasar said:
I thought this was going to be a request for .7z support in Eternity 9_9

Well, ZDoom has it so all the necessary code is already available...

03-08-10 21:51 #

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GhostlyDeath
Forum Retard

Posts: 782
Registered: 08-05

You can disable shell integration like what CODOR said.

Also 7-zip uses LZMA which is alot better than DEFLATE. It saves server disk space and allows faster downloads. It could either be a choice of paying to download eternity builds (to pay for bandwidth) or download in a different format.

At least it's not RAR...

03-08-10 21:58 #

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Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!

Posts: 6454
Registered: 07-07

Csonicgo said:
I'm not one to bitch(much(also a lie)) but what the hell happened?
http://svn.drdteam.org/eternity/

http://www.doomworld.com/vbmisc/qimg.gif

why on earth?

26% smaller.

Csonicgo said:
why on earth? Why have a format that isn't supported automatically by the users of the OS this build is made for?

ZIP isn't supported automatically either. The ZIP support native to Windows is limited to store and deflate. It doesn't manage older methods (like implode) or newer (like LZMA or BZip2). At least with a 7z it's blatant.

Question: do you ever download, say, .rar files for example? They're quite common, and not natively supported by Windows either. Something like 7-zip will open them, though.

If it's really such a horrible hassle for you that you feel the need to bother other people instead of installing 7-zip or another decent archiver, it'll be back to the old zip format; but I do think you're overreacting; honestly. If you don't like shell integration you can remove it after all.

03-09-10 01:17 #

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andrewj
Senior Member

Posts: 1344
Registered: 04-02

Non-standard archive formats are annoying, especially RAR which is proprietry and often cannot be unpacked by open source software. I really really hate RAR.

I have learnt how to use 'unzip' and then people expect you to install and learn a new program, just because their files become a little bit smaller.

The worst part is that the new program cannot do what you need, the main example is that 'unzip' has an -a option to fix the line endings for Linux (CR/LF --> LF), but 7z does not have this feature. Another lacking feature is -LL for force filenames to be lowercase.

03-09-10 02:05 #

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HackNeyed
Member

Posts: 380
Registered: 08-04

Csonicgo said:
I don't want 7zip on my computer

It's one the the first apps I install since I hate how windows treats zips like file/folder hybrids, like folders but as a file. bleh. Nevermind that I run into non zip files often.

PeaZip is about the only real alternative and while it isn't as clean as 7zip is DOES do some things that 7zip doesn't do (though not HOW they should be done IMO).

Congratulations (for something) if you never need an app for zips. You might just have a clean and uncluttered computer.

03-09-10 04:03 #

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Csonicgo
This post is probably useless

Posts: 3823
Registered: 03-04

the reason why I made such a stink over the 7z shit is not really a matter of 7z vs zip, it was something much more important: EE users having a say. I didn't post that as the reason first because I was hoping it would be obvious, so I only hinted at it. But that didn't show up apparently. The main issue I have is: Euranna said that all "G/ZDOOM" builds would be in 7zip format if the poll was conclusive that this would be acceptable. I voiced my opinion on it (no) and I assume it was taken with as much consideration as the other votes.

However, that obviously isn't the case: ALL builds were affected by the vote, and that wasn't stated anywhere in any post on drdteam that EE would be bothered. It only makes it more apparent to me that "Because zdoom", what decisions were decided for GZDOOM were applied to the other ports being compiled. That simply is not honest, or fair.

Were EE users expected to just accept the change anyway when that wasn't the deal proposed in the first place? Regardless of what Gez/Graf/anyone else has to say, I think EE users should have had a say in the matter just like the G/Zdoom crowd did.

But that's all moot. Thanks for changing it back for now.

Last edited by Csonicgo on 03-09-10 at 04:38

03-09-10 04:27 #

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Quasar
Moderator

Posts: 4484
Registered: 08-00

Csonicgo said:
the reason why I made such a stink over the 7z shit is not really a matter of 7z vs zip, it was something much more important: EE users having a say. I didn't post that as the reason first because I was hoping it would be obvious, so I only hinted at it. But that didn't show up apparently. The main issue I have is: Euranna said that all "G/ZDOOM" builds would be in 7zip format if the poll was conclusive that this would be acceptable. I voiced my opinion on it (no) and I assume it was taken with as much consideration as the other votes.

However, that obviously isn't the case: ALL builds were affected by the vote, and that wasn't stated anywhere in any post on drdteam that EE would be bothered. It only makes it more apparent to me that "Because zdoom", what decisions were decided for GZDOOM were applied to the other ports being compiled. That simply is not honest, or fair.

Were EE users expected to just accept the change anyway when that wasn't the deal proposed in the first place? Regardless of what Gez/Graf/anyone else has to say, I think EE users should have had a say in the matter just like the G/Zdoom crowd did.

But that's all moot. Thanks for changing it back for now.

You mean all 5 users? 9_9

Personally I have nothing against 7z, it's a great format. Now as to whether or not we should continue fragmenting the archive format situation for DOOM *mods* is another story altogether, IMO.

03-09-10 05:13 #

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kristus
Megablast!

Posts: 9568
Registered: 07-00

I'm one of those 5 users. I don't care what compression format you use. That's my 2c.

03-09-10 05:52 #

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Graf Zahl
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!

Posts: 6962
Registered: 01-03

The programs I am using regularly to handle archives can handle all of Zip's compression formats, 7z, RAR, LZH, CAB, GZ, BZ2, TAR and many more. I don't limit myself to shit software that only can handle a limited subset of one of these formats.

So yeah, 7z == win. Best format of all.

Csonicgo said:

Were EE users expected to just accept the change anyway when that wasn't the deal proposed in the first place? Regardless of what Gez/Graf/anyone else has to say, I think EE users should have had a say in the matter just like the G/Zdoom crowd did.

You know what, you should consider yourself lucky that there's people who actually host that stuff. What about their bandwidth considerations? Whining and complaining like a little child who gets a red instead of a green toy sure makes your opinion count! Grow up!

03-09-10 07:06 #

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GhostlyDeath
Forum Retard

Posts: 782
Registered: 08-05

ReMooD has used 7-zip for it's automatic builds because it's half the size. I got an entire directory full of old builds which totals 2.057 GiB (2,208,731,001 bytes) dating back to revision 375 (1 year 5 months ago).

It really saves space especially when 7-zip files are ~1.5 MiBs instead of ~3.0 MiBs like ZIPs.

03-09-10 07:09 #

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SoM
azerty YAY!

Posts: 266
Registered: 03-02

Csonicgo said:
I'm not one to bitch(much(also a lie)) but what the hell happened?
http://svn.drdteam.org/eternity/

(Image removed because I'm not a dumbass)

why on earth? Why have a format that isn't supported automatically by the users of the OS this build is made for? Now I have to download even more software to use these builds, which I refuse to do. I don't want 7zip on my computer as I don't like what it does to the windows Shell (modifying menus is bad enough when tortoiseSVN does it, now 7zip has to mess with it).

So there. I guess I will be learning to compile the windows releases myself?

I was told that this change would only affect Zdoom and GZDoom builds. I didn't expect for them to affect all builds.

* SoM starts playing a slow, sad song on a single violin.

03-11-10 06:07 #

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printz
CRAZY DUMB ZEALOT

Posts: 6128
Registered: 06-06

Is there a way to integrate the 7z decoding into Windows Explorer, so Csonicgo solves his problem?

03-11-10 13:14 #

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exp(x)

Posts: 2226
Registered: 04-04

Csonicgo said:
I will ask exp[x] to make an automated building process a la Chocodoom. He was going to do one anyway. It would be more beneficial to have an automated build so mappers/users can quickly test a new feature when it's needed, and exp[x] hosts on a university server so bandwidth issues would be nonexistent.

I haven't been making builds for a while now. I accidentally screwed up Debian on my Xbox, and I've been far too busy to do anything about it.

03-11-10 17:26 #

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Quasar
Moderator

Posts: 4484
Registered: 08-00

CSonicGo is always claiming he uses Windows 98 anyway, which to my knowledge didn't have built-in support for *any* archive formats.

BTW, speaking of:
http://eternity.mancubus.net/pics/eevm98.jpg

:)

03-11-10 20:40 #

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Csonicgo
This post is probably useless

Posts: 3823
Registered: 03-04

Quasar said:
CSonicGo is always claiming he uses Windows 98 anyway, which to my knowledge didn't have built-in support for *any* archive formats.

BTW, speaking of:
http://eternity.mancubus.net/pics/eevm98.jpg

:)

I use Windows 7 and windows XP. Linux 2.6 is what I use to compile and Test EE.

03-11-10 20:45 #

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