Doomworld Forums - Watchmen **SPOILERS**

Doomworld Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.5

Doomworld Forums > Misc. > Everything Else > Watchmen **SPOILERS**

Author

All times are GMT. The time now is 20:34.

Skeletor
Call me Snake

Posts: 487
Registered: 09-03

**Spoilers. If you plan on seeing movie or haven't read comic book don't read any further**

If you read "Watchmen" I was wondering what you thought about Ozymandias' plan. Do you think it was right? Wrong? Also, what did you think about Rorschach's response compared to the others?

My opinion is that what Ozymandias did was wrong. I thought Rorschach, despite being black and white and extremely conservative, he had the most sensible response to Ozymandias' plan. Unfortunately, killed by Dr. Manhattan. We wonder if the New Frontiersman and public will take seriously Rorschach's journal since he's "known to be mentally ill."

08-30-08 07:01 #

Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy

Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote

Captain Red
Pants

Posts: 4583
Registered: 06-01

Fuck yeah! Watchmen!

Skeletor said:
I thought Rorschach, despite being black and white and extremely conservative, he had the most sensible response to Ozymandias' plan.

If Rorschach had managed to get back to civilization and inform the world of Ozymandias' plan, it would have meant that the world would once again be on the edge of Nuclear Armageddon and what's worse, half of New York would have died for nothing. Rorschach knew that. He knew he had no chance of getting to civilization alive. His "Never Compromise" stance was nothing so he was nothing.

Like it or not, Ozymandias plan left the world a safer place.

08-30-08 07:14 #

Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy

Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote

Skeletor
Call me Snake

Posts: 487
Registered: 09-03

True that, true. Damn you, Ozymandias! I just have a hard-time accepting his bloodshed-founded Utopia.

I wonder if the ending strip has any significance though, the fact that his journal will be published but whether it will be taken seriously. I mean, is there some sort of message to that? I feel like it maybe gives some support to Rorschach's side.

08-30-08 07:27 #

Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy

Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote

Danarchy
YOU CAN'T CUT BACK ON FUNDING! YOU WILL REGRET THIS!

Posts: 12950
Registered: 01-01

Personally, I don't really think what Ozymandias did was right. Despite his good intentions, and the eventual outcome, I don't think world peace would be permanent. Still, were I one of the heroes, I'd probably do what most of them did.

I think Rorschach's journal would end up being a lot like JFK conspiracy theories. The mainstream wouldn't take it seriously, but enough people would see the facts and believe them to generate a general distrust in the matter.

08-30-08 14:15 #

Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy

Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote

Bank
Senior Member

Posts: 1360
Registered: 03-05

Ozymandias was an elitist rich bastard who thought he knew what was best for the world, and in the process sacrificed countless people for his goal. Granted, you can accept that the world was a safer place and more united after this tragedy, but the global conflicts that existed before will not go away, because unlike Ozymandias's monster, those conflicts were not manufactured. Ozymandias, regardless of his intentions, was the villain and used his wealth and influence to manipulate and kill.

Rorschach is the definitive foil, because while living in poverty and torn between personalities and identities; his resolve and principles remain steadfast. Rorschach is the hero, because even faced with his inevitable demise he knows what is right and died knowing it.

08-30-08 18:49 #

Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy

Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote

alexz721
Forum Regular

Posts: 690
Registered: 03-03

It really comes down to a basic question: would you sacrifice millions to save billions? Could you justify such a thing?

__________________
Has anyone ever seen this megawad????

PM me if you have an idea.

08-30-08 19:32 #

Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy

Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote

Captain Red
Pants

Posts: 4583
Registered: 06-01

He may be the protagonist, he may be total badass and he may even be sympathetic, but Rorschach isn't a hero. Rorschach resolve might almost seem heroic, but fact it, at the end, it was pretty retarded. What's the point of his principles if it directly leads to thermonuclear war? What he was looking for was and end to his cluster fuck of a life with what he considered an honorable death. Understandable, sure, but quite selfish and not really heroic

For the record, While a giant psychic space squids might not save our world, I think for the sake of the story, we should assume it would save Watchmens' world. What we are supposed to buy is that Ozymandias really considered it from all angles including many that most people can barely comprehend. The story is so much more powerful if we assume he successfully saves the world with an evil act. Doesn't mean he's not a villain though.

Fucking hell I love that book.

BONUS: Alan Moore on Watchmen.

08-30-08 19:34 #

Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy

Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote

Creaphis
I will deliberately take a contrary position just for the sake of writing incredibly long arguments

Posts: 1266
Registered: 10-05

"Watchmen" is a work of genius because it raises all these questions without answering them. The reader is not told what is right and what is wrong, and is free to judge all the characters on his or her own terms. This effect is especially profound in the genre of the superhero comic, where morally absolutist ideologies have traditionally been the norm.

Right or wrong, or deliciously in-between, Veigt's plan was magnificent. Equally magnificent is the comic's final page - we don't know what will happen when Rorschach's journal is shown to the world, or even whether it will be. You can feel free to speculate about whether Ozymandias has ushered in an era of peace, or has merely delayed doom for a moment before his secret is uncovered and his empire destroyed. But, quite fundamentally, we don't know. Rest assured that the story isn't over, even though we can't know how it continues from there. As Jon's final words go, "Nothing ends, Adrian. Nothing ever ends."

The posts in this thread show the wide range of responses that can be made to "Watchmen," and the responses show us more about the people making them than about the story itself. This novel is a piece of abstract artwork in which the viewer will spot the shapes he is looking for. Or, there is another metaphor which plainly presents itself, and its presence in the story is a testament to Alan Moore's brilliance. "Watchmen" is an ink blot test. What can you see?

08-30-08 20:33 #

Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy

Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote

Use3D
Forum Spammer

Posts: 3049
Registered: 04-02

Rorschach and Ozymandias are opposites in the story. Rorschach, having a terrible life of conflict and violence that made him into an avatar of justice, absolute. Ozymandias, had a life of luxury, abandoned that life out of choice, and saw the world as a giant problem only he could fix.

They are the two characters in the story that aren't on the fence about right and wrong. Truly a conflict of good and evil, presented in a way that makes you question your own ability to know good from evil. It's awesome.

08-30-08 23:34 #

Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy

Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote

StupidBunny
Member

Posts: 287
Registered: 09-07

Watchmen is awesome. It changed my life.

Anyway, I don't believe that Ozymandias' plan, no matter what the "greater good" might be, was justified.

It is summed up best when he asks Dr. Manhattan, "Do you think I did the right thing, in the end?" And Dr. Manhattan responds, "Nothing ends, Adrian. Nothing EVER ends." and then leaves the Earth forever.

08-31-08 04:28 #

Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy

Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote

Skeletor
Call me Snake

Posts: 487
Registered: 09-03

Captain Red said:
He may be the protagonist, he may be total badass and he may even be sympathetic, but Rorschach isn't a hero. Rorschach resolve might almost seem heroic, but fact it, at the end, it was pretty retarded. What's the point of his principles if it directly leads to thermonuclear war? What he was looking for was and end to his cluster fuck of a life with what he considered an honorable death. Understandable, sure, but quite selfish and not really heroic

For the record, While a giant psychic space squids might not save our world, I think for the sake of the story, we should assume it would save Watchmens' world. What we are supposed to buy is that Ozymandias really considered it from all angles including many that most people can barely comprehend. The story is so much more powerful if we assume he successfully saves the world with an evil act. Doesn't mean he's not a villain though.

Fucking hell I love that book.

BONUS: Alan Moore on Watchmen.

Hmm, I'm not sure about this. Ozymandias asks Manhattan if what he did was the right thing. Manhattan responds, "Nothing ever ends."

08-31-08 08:31 #

Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy

Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote

Danarchy
YOU CAN'T CUT BACK ON FUNDING! YOU WILL REGRET THIS!

Posts: 12950
Registered: 01-01

I wouldn't say Rorschach is right. Nor Ozymandias. That's the beauty of the book. There's no one right answer in it, just like real life. Most superhero comic books have a clear right and wrong, good and bad, which is nothing like real life. That's really what made Watchmen so unique.

I wouldn't really consider Rorschach a "good guy" either. He has very bigoted right-wing views of the world, thinking anyone who breaks the law is scum, and he often deals with them by murdering them. Still, there's a reason his name is Rorschach. What he does can be viewed as either good or evil by anyone else's perspective, much the same way that a blob on a Rorschach test can be viewed as a thousand different things by as many people. In fact, the whole book and everyone's actions in it are in a way a big Rorschach test.

08-31-08 14:34 #

Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy

Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote

Darkfyre
Member

Posts: 404
Registered: 11-02

The open end morality (and yes, many other things) is what makes it such a great read. No clear right or wrong, just what certain people's morals would allow or not.

Really though, they've stated how they're adapting everything possible from the book, so I can't help but wonder how they're going to transfer the, uh, giant 'choose your own adventure' monster. The guy doing the CG for that thing must be getting a riot out of it.

08-31-08 21:16 #