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AndrewB

Atheism kills man

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Shaikoten said:

Think of how you atheists would feel if suddenly some real god finally popped up and was pissed at you.

I'd become a satanist because the enemy of an asshole such as god can only be a good guy. :p

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Shaikoten said:

Think of how you atheists would feel if suddenly some real god finally popped up and was pissed at you.

Pissed? "You did not believe in me even though I tried my hardest to seem really non-existant! This angers me beyond your wildest imagination!"

So god finally decided to show himself, good. As devastating as that could possibly be because of the punishment for not believing, why would that suddenly make my life seem worthless or anything like that?

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Espi said:

Pissed? "You did not believe in me even though I tried my hardest to seem really non-existant! This angers me beyond your wildest imagination!"

So god finally decided to show himself, good. As devastating as that could possibly be because of the punishment for not believing, why would that suddenly make my life seem worthless or anything like that?

Hey man, use some willing suspension of disbelief for a moment! Roleplay!

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What if that "real god" turns out to be nothing more than a Roswell Grey with delusions of grandeur and a multi-millennial genetic manipulation experiment to complete - then I'd be pissed.

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Hey man, if God suddenly showed up and got pissed off at me for being an atheist, I'd get pissed off right back at him. I mean, what kind of deity pulls that kind of shit? Hiding all evidence of existence, and then getting pissed when people don't believe in him? I'd say if that's the case, then God has got some serious psychological issues.

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i don't think its the atheists he would be pissed off at, it would be the blasphemers, or the fanatics who twist the words of the bible.

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The god as portrayed in The Truman Show is logically far more realistic and plausible in our universe than the holy kind of god. And from I remember, he was a pretty cool guy in the face of doubt.

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Use3D said:

Dawkins will be thrilled, his book actually worked.


As an atheist, I honestly hate Dawkins. I think he's as much a douche as a religious fundamentalist of any stripe - in fact, I think he's cut from the exact same cloth.

However, that kid's dad actually seemed to have a slight grip on on the real world when was defining faith. Everything else alluded to complete disconnect with reality, though :p

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pilottobombadier said:

As an atheist, I honestly hate Dawkins. I think he's as much a douche as a religious fundamentalist of any stripe - in fact, I think he's cut from the exact same cloth.

Ditto. Of course, I'm not a pure atheist like I was a few years ago. Still, that kind of person has always bugged me.

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The God Delusion was a good read. I think saying Dawkins is similar to the religious nuts, only with an opposite view is fairly delusional in its own right.

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Butts said:

i don't think its the atheists he would be pissed off at, it would be the blasphemers, or the fanatics who twist the words of the bible.


But what if the Bible is as black and white? What then Butts?! WHAT THEN?!!!

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Dawkins' position isn't really equivalent to religious fundamentalism, as it's built on scientific reasoning and contains the right amount of scientific uncertainty. While not every argument he makes is bulletproof, he's correct that the existence of a god is extraordinarily unlikely from a scientific standpoint, and that believing that there is evidence for God is foolish. But, he is very rabid, and does not acknowledge the ways that religion can actually benefit a human being. I use Dawkins as a standard of extremeness in beliefs which I try to stay a little bit short of.


If God suddenly revealed himself to creation, I don't think he'd be angry, per se. When you find some rotten item in the back of your fridge that should have been thrown out months ago you might be disgusted, or a little miffed, but not angry.

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Depends on which God opens the fridge - the Old Testament blood-n-thunder merchant or the New Testament metrosexual.

@Terra-jin - I'm not that Grey Ghost. :P

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I don't think there's anything wrong with Richard Dawkins himself; I think he's controversial just because he speaks frankly and honestly regardless of whether it may offend religious believers. However, I am rather skeptical about the "hero worship" that seems to have sprung up around him. I don't think he cultivates it himself deliberately. The last couple of years has seen the rise of a sort of atheist "movement" if you will, and Dawkins seems to be revered almost like some kind of cult leader.

Obviously atheism isn't a religion, but I'm a bit concerned about the groupthink in this "movement" and where it could possibly lead. As an example, some people are starting a fashion line called The Arrogant Atheist. Why exactly do atheists need their own fashion?

I expect this is all probably just an reaction by American atheists who feel oppressed in a predominantly Christian society. It seems weird to me as someone living in a country where religion doesn't have much influence nowadays.

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Well, in Sweden this is really not something that we talk about. Only time religion comes up is when the church desperately cling on to some old nonsense, like no women priests or no same sex marriages. And it's on the radar for a few days before the clergy basically gets flooded for being being politically incorrect and then they say "Okay then" and life goes on.

Or when Neo nazis wants to burn/oppose the construction of a new mosque or whatever.
Or in the few cases where there's a honor killing. (Though, unlike the othre cases, this obviously tends to take up a lot more news time)

Only time I've experienced a debate starting on the subject was hen one of the girls in my old class said that she was a Jehova witness. And there really came nothing good from that.

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fraggle said:

I expect this is all probably just an reaction by American atheists who feel oppressed in a predominantly Christian society. It seems weird to me as someone living in a country where religion doesn't have much influence nowadays.

The thing is that in the USA, Christianity has an "obsidional complex" (yay big words!): it thinks it's under siege. They see everything -- from gay marriage to wishing something "happy holidays" rather than "merry Christmas" -- as an attack against Christian values. The article quoted in the OP is a perfect example of this attitude. Ask a Christian in the USA, and they'll tell you that Christianity is the oppressed minority... No matter how much it's parodied and derided ("I dream of a day when we might have a Christian president. Or 44 of them consecutively."), this form of paranoia is there and doesn't seem to be going away anytime soon.

So the attacks against Atheism and atheists are all the more ferocious because they think they're defending themselves. And, in a way, they are -- when your religion simply doesn't make sense (you insist on taking the Book of Genesis literally, for example), any tolerance of any other viewpoint is a major threat to your beliefs, because the first person to compare what you teach with what other people teach will instantly realize you're full of bullshit. So, they're fighting a battle of oppression because tolerance is a poison to them. The truth attacks lies just its mere existence.

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Well, they are under attack. Indirectly. By progress in science. It's no longer possible to wave an old book and talk about made up superstitious deities and punishments for not following them. You have to have proof for the bile you're spouting. Well. In the most part of the civilized world anyway.

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Shaikoten said:

Think of how you atheists would feel if suddenly some real god finally popped up and was pissed at you.


This reminds me of some brochure I found in work recently entitled "Does God Love You?". It basically states that God hates us all and wants to kill us, with fire. Of course it then goes on to contradict itself about 20 times, but the basic point still remains. Who really wants to worship some big bully in the clouds who hates our guts and wants to kill us all, with fire?

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Christians really do need to lose that victim complex. I mean, as an atheist, I'd be far more willing to say "live and let live," and be far more accepting of others' beliefs if it weren't for their over-the-top reactions to anything they perceive as a threat to their beliefs.

Frankly, I see the Christians as something of a threat to their own religion - I mean, every time they go into hysterics over homosexuality or something, they're driving more young people away. It's not atheism, or evolution, or any of that that's hurting Christianity, it's Christians themselves.

I mean, it's paralleled right here in this story - the boy didn't kill himself because of atheism, he killed himself because of mindless indoctrination that prevented him from adapting to new information. I foresee a similar fate for Christianity on the whole if they don't change their attitudes.

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sounds to me that this kid's real motivation for suicide was being unable to face his father about his rejection of faith.

He suggested the moral is for Christians simply to abandon public schools wholly.

YES YES YES

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Creaphis said:

Dawkins' position isn't really equivalent to religious fundamentalism, as it's built on scientific reasoning and contains the right amount of scientific uncertainty. While not every argument he makes is bulletproof, he's correct that the existence of a god is extraordinarily unlikely from a scientific standpoint, and that believing that there is evidence for God is foolish. But, he is very rabid, and does not acknowledge the ways that religion can actually benefit a human being. I use Dawkins as a standard of extremeness in beliefs which I try to stay a little bit short of.

Dawkins' a very matter-of-factly guy, he is not really militant in the slightest, you haven't been paying attention to what he writes. His books make no bolder claims than what you'd expect from the typical logical deconstruction of a chosen topic like a scientific paper or divulgation book is normally written. Simply because he analyzes religion rather than strangelets, global warming or Marcel Proust he gets a lot of unintended worship or flak.

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TBQH, the only real beef I have with Dawkins is that he named his book "The God Delusion". That's pretty blatant trolling right there, probably just to get more book sales. It probably did more to bring ire at atheists from Christians than to get more people interested in atheism. Not sure exactly what the content of the book is, but yeah...he turned me off with the first impression.

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