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trooper077

Borderlands

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Use3D said:

Predicting what an enemy squad of players is going to do in a given situation? Not going to happen.

I'll be honest, usually once a multiplayer game has been going for a while, there's a given set of tactics for most given maps and weaponsets. To use an example I know rather well, SOCOM 2 had a map called "Fish Hook", which had one team start on a beach, and the other start uphill, behind a couple of walls (with a courtyard between them), in a town-like area. It was a given that it'd rain grenades on the beach, and that people gravitated to the right hand side when moving uphill. Unless the players moving on the town-like area were a bit creative, there was a rather standard method of defense that only broke down if the area itself got breached successfully.

I could cite a similar example in a free-for-all Modern Warfare 2 map that I know quite well (Wasteland, I think the name is), and thinking through most other shooting/deathmatch games I've got experience of in mutliplayer, most players are quite predictable once you've got some experience, AI or not.

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I'm coming from a heavy Quake3 background and light TF classic - TF2 mulitplayer scene. I hope I get to that point in BC2. I just need to learn these huge ass maps better...maybe if I quit my job..

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40oz said:

If validating points through longevity is so pointless then what are you trying so hard for?

40oz said:

Membrain said:
But criticizing others based around them not having the same tastes and blaming them for the obscurity of games that satisfy you is not.


Since when?


THEN:

Membrain said:
Validating points through longevity is pointless, anyway, and not even relevant to the conversation.


Seriously? Are you really going to ignore -everything- I've said so far and try to once again bring up a point that I disregarded in the first reply to -you- bringing it up initially?

Alright, I'm done with this. You're cherry-picking my sentences, going in circles with points that aren't even being made, and don't seem to have the ability to grasp what I'm even saying. Quit trying to duck out of it with irrelevant nonsense. I'm not going to even acknowledge this "longevity" bullshit from here on out. It doesn't matter.

40oz said:

I'm too adamant in my views and once gave video games that have been released within the last 10 years a chance and am completely unsatisfied with them, and how much they are depreciating since Doom. As long as you continue to deny that that's the case, I will continue to draw attention to your intent to bask in your ignorance.


You sound like an evangelical. Quit trying to preach to us. We don't care about your views, and we would rather just talk about the actual topic of the threads you keep trolling. Your unreasonable standards and sensationalist tripe obviously don't add anything.

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Your communication skills are terrible. I have no idea what you are trying to demonstrate with your quotes.

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I'm not going to walk you through my post, though it's obvious that you're just trying to avoid actually replying. I'm done here.

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40oz said:

Good. You were wrong anyway.

Because you not understanding (or refusing to even attempt to understand, as the case may be) what he's saying must mean he's wrong, right?

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[On Topic]
Well, I really don't think Borderlands was groundbreaking, but to say it's a terrible or repetitive game is a bit on the harsh side. I liked Borderlands. But seriously, aside from headshots, games where enemies have weakpoints and strong points that require you to move around enemies in creative ways are extremely rare now, and Borderlands was a refreshing return to that. You could easily spend your skill points on things that made the game more enjoyable for you. I enjoyed beefing up my fisting skills and playing the game using as little ammo as possible, others liked the soldier's vast supply of almost unlimited ammo. The bosses, like Mothrakk and Skagzilla, were pretty fun to fight even in singleplayer.

I didn't like how the game claimed to have over 10,000 weapons when it was really just about 10 weapons with randomized stats, scopes, and elemental effects. It's like the SUPER JOY, which claimed to have 1,000 NES games on it even though they had like 70 pirated games listed 1,000 times under different names. I thought the enemy pool could be a bit better, and I didn't like how the game tried to keep me away from the good versions of weapons I liked (Finding a good SMG is hell compared to finding a Combat Rifle with similar stats, for example).

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I'd wager the "repetitive" idea is more in reference to the quests than anything. From what I've seen they're all basic MMO tripe: go here, collect X items, return for profit.

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I played the ever loving shit out of this game when it first came out, easily put 100+ hours into it between three characters.

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Xeros612 said:

Because you not understanding (or refusing to even attempt to understand, as the case may be) what he's saying must mean he's wrong, right?


No dude get it right, it's LONGEVITY!!

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Xeros612 said:

Because you not understanding (or refusing to even attempt to understand, as the case may be) what he's saying must mean he's wrong, right?


Well you're using the same rules against me so who's at fault here?

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Nope, I'm fairly certain that's not what's happening here, but please, go on placing the blame on everyone else for not "understanding" your angst while derailing the thread again just as it got back on the actual topic.

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Now that I've actually read this whole thread...

What the fuck was the point of all this?

I'm all for original games with new concepts and ideas, but when a familiar game that is well done is put on sale for $5, I'm not going to act holier than thou and write it off because I'm too fucking snobby. Yes, it's possible for a game with familiar concepts to be well done and fun, you know, that thing we play games for in the first place.
Maybe it's not fun to you but then again 40oz, I'm not a grindcore fan, and many games much like music are highly subjective.

That said, if you want to play a game I consider highly original, go check out Amnesia: The Dark Descent.

Unless it being in first person is too unoriginal for you, of course.

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I was going to reply yesterday but got addicted playing Borderlands :)

So, some replies from 1st page till here.

I didn't like it very much. The world was to small, there wasn't very many different vehicles, it cost money to die


Yep the world is a bit restricted, you go out of the restricted areas and some turret kills you/tunnel teleports you to the start point. I don't care about vehicles, which FPS game has several of them? Also, you can find 3 at the General Knoxx DLC. Costs money to die? Yes, but no big deal. You get much more money by finding loot and selling it and when you die it takes a percentage of it, so I have more than 9999999 and I loose around 1000000 to 1500000 and still have 99999999 (counter is overflow).

the customization of weapons was lacking, there was little interaction with other characters, it was repetitive, the enemies had to much health, there was plenty of weapons but I'd like to see different types (crossbows, homing guns, rail guns, anything besides normal guns), it needed melee weapons, almost no interesting side missions, etc.


I don't understand many of these reasons to not like a game. Some of them are like you "wanted" to find reasons to dish this game and wrote whatever you could think. Which other FPS has customisation of weapons? It's not like it's missing something that most other have anyway. However this would be a nice idea for Borderlands 2, I am thinking here something similar to Diablo (not an FPS but) with weapons having slots for special gems to add abilities to waepons which would be a nice addition.

The enemies had too much health if you don't level up much. OK, I admit, it relies on the "kill kill kill repeatedly to level up so that you can continue" but not that much. You can easilly become more powerful than other enemies but then there is balance too, if you visit the later levels or play on playthrough 2, you are not a 40 level fighting level 1 but the enemies scale up to match your own power.

It needed melee weapons? It has some melee weapons already. One per player, plus some special shotgun or revolver with a blade attached. Ok, not much but it's an FPS. Ok, I admit the weapons are not varied, they are 1000000 combination of the same 7 weapons but this is enough for me because there are interesting variations like a rifle that does great damage but fires like a snail, a shotgun with great damage but horrible spreading, weapons with zoom or not, shotgung that shoots rockets, revolver that shoots like a shotgun, elemental powers, etc. There is great variety and much more surprises and they scale up with your level.

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My opinion on save points.

I like that in Doom and older FPS you could save at any point you wanted. Then I was playing Castlevania seris on DS (the Castloid style) and they had some save points where you could press up and save. I wondered how the game would be if you could save at any place you want. A friend says it could loose the challenge because at some hard places it would be like constantly saving and loading again and again and again. Remember also emulators, playing the very first Castlevania games, sometimes they are annoyingly hard (except if you learn the patterns) that you tend to save/load state every two or three seconds. It isn't intersting any more but then you'd wish there were save states for some games. So, save points could be a bliss and a curse at the same time, I don't mind them in Borderlands and I don't need save in Borderlands since it's not that hard. Castloids are not that hard too and you can just kill enemies around and level up so that it gets easier later.

40oz mentioned a lot of FPS games that are supposed to be the same thing over and over again and it surprised me that he mentioned Portal. When Portal came out I said, finally a game using an FPS engine that is not an FPS at all and yet it totally rules and was succesfull. For me, Portal made the difference. It was also a risk, because you wouldn't know if this thing catches, because it would be boring to people playing classic FPS. Well, I still don't know if FPS should follow it's example because people who play FPS want action and not some puzzle FP(S), and honestly I finished it quite fast (it was short) and enjoyed the ending but then I never played it again. But it was unique, it was original, it was different. Maybe I'll play it for a second time and see again.

Game being easy. Yep, it's not that hard, but it's not like you level up and enemies stay at very low levels, except if you stay at the very first area and keep killing the respawning monsters. If you move on to the next missions, there are some enemies, mostly bosses who are such a nuisance at first. And I think there is some scale up of enemy level especially if you start playthrough 2 (a second go of the game from the beginning with your earned levels and weaponry). Not to mention Cramwerx on the DLC.

Then you have the fact that you die and you are revived back through a tunnel with some money lost. Also, when you die you have a second chance, a feature that I LOVE. You are down on the ground, crippled, bleeding with limit shot ability, trying to kill one enemy and if you do you are revived with some of your blood and shield. It's great when some enemy from a far away place has hit you and you try in the limited time you have to take revenge, with a sniper that you aren't allowed to zoom in and tilted view. At such hard occasion it's so fullfilling if you succeed at the very last moment to get the second chance. I love this feature!!!

Also, even if I don't care about whether FPS games are boring or not in this thread where I want to talk about Borederlands mainly, however I am curious about 40oz's view or at least I find it a hilarious manifest of a pure Doom zealot :)

Is it possible that there is no other game that satisfies this man? Most FPS are the same things, I agree, the last FPS I truly have admired (besides Borderlands) was Return To Castle Wolfenstein (which was still one of the same) but nothing in between. I also have this bad feeling about most FPS, but there are few hidden diamonds. Portal was a good example but anyways not a game you would play again and again like Doom. Amnesia is a good example of something I haven't played but I hear it's different. Many people talk about Deus Ex. Ok, they are strange breeds, mix of FPS, RPG, Stealth, etc. I also like Max Payne (not an FPS anyway) just for the story. I like games with a story. If there isn't anything better than Doom or if you feel retro enough, didn't some random indie game satisfy you? There certainly are some rare diamonds among the majority of the crap since Doom. I can't imagine there is nothing better than Doom or at least there is nothing that can entertain you enough in a different way?

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Ok, I admit the weapons are not varied, they are 1000000 combination of the same 7 weapons but this is enough for me because there are interesting variations like a rifle that does great damage but fires like a snail, a shotgun with great damage but horrible spreading, weapons with zoom or not, shotgung that shoots rockets, revolver that shoots like a shotgun, elemental powers, etc. There is great variety and much more surprises and they scale up with your level. [/B]


heh, I found some pretty interesting weapons during some of my playthroughs. I remember finding a shotgun my brother nicknamed "the happy meal" because the color scheme resembled the McDonald's logo's color scheme. It had a 30 round magazine, a high rate of fire, and it did a shit load of damage, plus it had a fairly wide spread (stats said 0.0 accuracy but I was playing as a soldier with quite a few points put into that one shotgun skill so the spread was smaller than that). It was a pretty fun weapon to use, especially on the zombie island DLC. It's just a shame that there weren't more interesting weapons like this and a lot of them just ended up being cheap shitty generic weapons. Still, I admire Gearbox for the weapon generation system. Although a lot of the weapons it generates tend to be redundant, you have to admire the complexity of the system.

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I liked hunting for guns with better stats. It was funny seeing some of the combinations that just sucked.

Restrictive environments and not enough RPG elements were the things that turned me off it. For a game with so many characters it also completely failed to make me care about why I was doing any of it. The thing that makes it fun is playing with your friends. Ultimately I got the impression they started out to make an RPG like Fallout 3, discovered the fun of driving around in cars with your friends killing things and made that instead.

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Aliotroph? said:

Restrictive environments and not enough RPG elements were the things that turned me off it. For a game with so many characters it also completely failed to make me care about why I was doing any of it. The thing that makes it fun is playing with your friends. Ultimately I got the impression they started out to make an RPG like Fallout 3, discovered the fun of driving around in cars with your friends killing things and made that instead.


This is really probably the most accurate comment about this game I've seen in the thread.

I had a load of fun playing last night again with my friend. That's what matters.

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Yeah, the story was pretty mediocre. The game was fun but there is a LOT that can be done to improve it. I'm fairly optimistic for the next game though.

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Mike.Reiner said:

Yeah, the story was pretty mediocre. The game was fun but there is a LOT that can be done to improve it. I'm fairly optimistic for the next game though.


Involving the other playable characters in some way in single player might help a bit. Maybe have them give out side missions sometimes, play roles in the main quests, etc.). Hell, it might even help us give a damn about them. Also it's been said before but a few more base weapon types couldn't hurt either. I'd also like to see some more of the alien weapons. As it is right now they're so rare that by the time I actually find one, I've already found another regular gun that's already a lot better.

Also I just beat Claptrap revolution. I think they went a little overboard with the reward. you get unlimited access to the Hyperion gift shop which contains about 18 red weapon crates, and yes they do restock. Oh and there's a shop right there in the room too so dumping them is no problem.

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I never finished General Knoxx and I haven't touched Claptrap revolution. I was pretty much done with the game after Zombie Island.

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