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Bucket
ROCK & LOAD
COCK BEEN BLOWED
IN YOUR MOUTH,
MANJUICE EXPLOAD


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Mr. Chris said:
To the "durr" console kids 14-20 it seems, those too lazy to get a computer :V
Blame the demographic, not the medium. Fallout ran on a Pentium 1. There's only one reason why it never made it to consoles in the past fifteen years, and it's not hardware constraints.

Old Post 04-29-12 08:12 #
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Jodwin
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DooM_RO said:
You still haven't explained WHY you think so...I'm just gonna post these http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4662477428#8

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/to...77428?page=3#46


I've explained it plenty in the actual Diablo 3 thread. The bottom line is, what I want from a game like this is character building. Diablo 3 does not have that. Does its mechanics make the game more balanced? Maybe they do, maybe they don't, but personally I couldn't care less. The problem isn't that I would be in the wrong for whatever reason, no, I know what I like in games like this and Diablo 3 isn't offering that. The problem is that people like you and the person you linked to aren't going to accept the fact that people like games for different reasons and aren't all going to enjoy Diablo 3 simply because for some people it doesn't offer what they're looking for.

I enjoy pressing that +-button. I enjoy planning my skill point usage. I enjoy coming up with lots of different kinds of builds. I enjoy having something to look up. What I don't enjoy is the drowsy action and endless grinding. As such, for me, Blizzard is simply taking out the good parts of Diablo 2 and leaving in the more questionable stuff. If that is what you like then more power to you, but do realize that it isn't what everyone else should like at the same time. Even if you've got Blizzard's community managers backing you up.

Old Post 04-29-12 17:03 #
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Danarchy
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I'm not getting Diablo 3. I've been boycotting Activision and Blizzard for a few years now, and really have no interest whatsoever in going back. Their company can go ahead and fold along with THQ and EA for all I care.

Torchlight 2 looks interesting. Torchlight is fun and all, but kind of gets dull. Like others said though, it is a great first entry for an indie company, and I'm looking forward to the seconds game. I'm guessing it will be as impressive as the jump from Diablo to Diablo 2. Adding multiplayer will really help.

Old Post 04-29-12 18:52 #
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Quast
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Jodwin said:

I've explained it plenty in the actual Diablo 3 thread. The bottom line is, what I want from a game like this is character building. Diablo 3 does not have that.


It absolutely does and after 3 weeks playing the beta I can guarantee there will be far more weird, unique and oddball character builds in d3 than d2 could've ever hoped for.


I enjoy pressing that +-button. I enjoy planning my skill point usage.


So basically, you would rather trudge on and bank skill points until level 30+ when you could start putting them into the skills you plan on using and THEN you can start playing the game. That is exactly what they are trying to squash because it's stupid and was utterly rampant in d2.

With that said you do have to plan you skill usage. You cannot haphazardly swap skills around in d3 anyway.


What I don't enjoy is the drowsy action and endless grinding.


Well, then these types of games simply aren't for you it seems.

Let me ask you this. Did you complain when they finally patched in the ability to respec in d2? How does your idea of 'character building' stand with the ability to respec? Because the way diablo 3 handles all of this is to say that you don't need to respec. You don't need to come to the conclusion at level 45 that you've build a shitty character with 20 points in teeth and summon raven that cannot go any further. Why the hell should people be punished with rerolling for making honest mistakes? You should be punished and rewarded for your ability or inability to actually play the game and pressing a + button is not that.

Old Post 04-29-12 19:30 #
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DooM_RO
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Fun fact I've just discovered.Alex Mayberry, one of the creators of Eternal Doom is the senior producer of Diablo 3.You can find his interview on diablofans where he talks about doom besides diablo.

Old Post 04-29-12 20:39 #
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Jodwin
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Quast said:
I fail at reading comprehension.

Wow. No, really, wow. Way to go pushing your own ideas of what a game's gameplay should be even after I go to lengths addressing that our conception of how Diablo-like games should play are different and there's nothing you can do about it.

Let me repeat for the Nth time: I do not care about any potential balance problems related to a skill point system. Maybe someone else does care, but I do not. Thus any argument you make for Diablo 3's system that is based around this argument won't get you anywhere because it's a moot point for me. When I played Diablo 2 I rolled a character, played it to lvl 40-60 and had fun with it, and when I got bored I rolled a new one. Guess what, I actually had a lot more fun with the weaker and stranger builds simply because they were a lot more interesting to play. Besides, any kind of balance issues related to the skill point system are not a fault of the system itself but of balancing skills. There's no reason why Blizzard couldn't balance the skills in Diablo 2 if they had really wanted to.

I haven't got a bad word to say about respeccing, because it's a completely optional activity. You either respec or you don't, it's up to you. Diablo 3 simply forces you to play by its arbitrary, lazy rules, which is not cool. Oh and "having a build" does not equal the act of building a character. The actual character building includes lots of things from choosing a class and skill composition to choosing skill point distribution and progression order. It also includes seeing your character progress over levels and having something concrete to look forward to in terms of power progression. A system that abolishes skill points simply does not have that in the same manner.

Old Post 04-30-12 06:19 #
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GeckoYamori
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Totalbiscuit interview with Max Schaefer + some gameplay.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRLPHtaxJdQ

The estimated release is now around July/early August. Interesting to note is that preorders for the game actually increased by 40% after Diablo 3 released.

Old Post 06-14-12 02:35 #
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chopkinsca
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Big bump, but the topic is relevant.

Anyone else getting the game? It is released tomorrow and I can't wait. I've watched a lot of videos and the game looks like it will be awesome. I watched a review on the first game and it looks like crap compared to TL2.

Old Post 09-19-12 17:05 #
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kristus
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Since Diablo 3 was such a massive let down. I am looking forward to Torchlight 2 to fill the gap.

Old Post 09-19-12 17:11 #
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Khorus
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Hm. The Borderlands series has been filling my need for these sorts of games of late, which has fun mechanics outside of the looting. I'll have to see. Maybe if I get an opportunity for co-op.

Old Post 09-19-12 17:16 #
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chopkinsca
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kristus said:
Since Diablo 3 was such a massive let down. I am looking forward to Torchlight 2 to fill the gap.


Two months ago I was going to get a newer computer. I thought it would be able to run Diablo 3, so I planned on getting that game. While waiting to get money for D3, I saw this thread on Torchlight and gave it a go. It took me 5 minutes to say "screw Diablo 3, I'm getting Torchlight1/2". I preordered TL2 right away. Turns out my 'newer' computer wouldn't have been able to run Diablo 3 anyway.

Hearing about how Diablo 3 turned out makes me even more glad I bought Torchlight 2. Also, at only $20, you can't go wrong.

Old Post 09-19-12 17:53 #
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kmxexii
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chopkinsca said:


Two months ago I was going to get a newer computer. I thought it would be able to run Diablo 3, so I planned on getting that game. While waiting to get money for D3, I saw this thread on Torchlight and gave it a go. It took me 5 minutes to say "screw Diablo 3, I'm getting Torchlight1/2". I preordered TL2 right away. Turns out my 'newer' computer wouldn't have been able to run Diablo 3 anyway.

Hearing about how Diablo 3 turned out makes me even more glad I bought Torchlight 2. Also, at only $20, you can't go wrong.



I love Diablo 3 but I got Torchlight as part of the Humble Indie Bundle 6 so I'll probably give it a go when I get tired of Borderlands 2 (so maybe never). I'll probably enjoy both.

Old Post 09-19-12 18:46 #
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Jodwin
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chopkinsca said:
Anyone else getting the game?

Big yes. Ever since playing the beta I've been very excited about this. The original, and Diablo 2, pales in comparison (and lets not even go into Diablo 3...that game can rot in Hell for all I care). I pretty much knew what to expect in regards to character variety, loot and such, but what blew me away in the beta was how visceral the combat was. I've played a lot of different hack 'n slash games, and no other game has combat even nearly as fun as Torchlight 2 does. Also, the challenge is much better. There's no "play through normal to get to the real game!", just roll a new character on veteran or elite and it's game on. Third, the boss design is great, and the boss fights are much more fun, varied and require much more skill than in pretty much any game in the genre.

Old Post 09-19-12 20:27 #
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Glaice
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I will eventually get to TL2 probably later next week or in October for my evaluation now that it's finally out.

Old Post 09-21-12 01:19 #
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Jodwin
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Staff wielding, pure melee embermage = <3

Old Post 09-21-12 05:27 #
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stewboy
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Since I'm having trouble connecting to the site to download it, I'm currently getting it via torrent, but I won't apply the crack (that would be a bit pointless, as I did actually buy it.)

Old Post 09-21-12 09:31 #
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ArmouredBlood
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Just threw 6 or so hours at it ... embermage on veteran is squishy heheh. Think I've died 5-6 times now. Just found an awesome staff though. Went from 100->150 dps and has a ton of fun enchants on it. This is the one class I didn't try in the beta, and it's been pretty fun.

Old Post 09-21-12 13:02 #
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Phml
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This morning, almost posted to say my hand couldn't handle all the clicking in ARPGs anymore; but then I read about mapping a key to move and just moving the mouse without pressing a button, went and downloaded the demo... Flashforward to now, I'm twenty dollars light and got a new addiction.

They have done well on marketing. If there wasn't a demo, I wouldn't have bought it. If that demo wasn't as substantial, no buy either - it took time for me to get hooked. If the game had been priced any higher, I would have waited for a sale below 10 bucks. AAA studios could learn from this.

Old Post 09-21-12 23:46 #
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ArmouredBlood
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Damn runic get your login servers working! Or at least your automated email servers. I already have an account so I've either got to make a new one or wait for the reset password email. Some people on their forum have waited hours for one only to have it be expired under the 24 hr expiration. Wonderful. Back to single player then. Or FTL.


E: oh and phml, we should play together sometime. I don't know how many people we could get on at once, but we've got quite a few doomers on the game.

Old Post 09-22-12 04:00 #
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Jodwin
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ArmouredBlood said:
I don't know how many people we could get on at once

6.

As for those servers, nothing new under the sun. Happens pretty much every time that a new and highly anticipated online service is launched. :P

Old Post 09-22-12 05:10 #
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ArmouredBlood
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Cool. Email came in and waiting on runic now ... I get horrible internet at this time though so I bet it'll still take a while.

E: Hokay I'm set up. Feel free to poke me into playing a game.

Old Post 09-22-12 05:25 #
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DooM_RO
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Hmm I really like it but it doesn't feel as good as Diablo 3 to me. Sure, it has more environments, monsters, bosses but nothing is as refined as in Diablo 3, except the combat which feels faster and if you hated the colorful graphics in Diablo 3, you'll despise this.

EDIT: Ah yes, the loot is much better too and no one can beat Matt Uelmen when it comes to making music for games like this.

Last edited by DooM_RO on 09-22-12 at 07:02

Old Post 09-22-12 06:47 #
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Jodwin
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DooM_RO said:
but nothing is as dumbed down as in Diablo 3

FTFY

Old Post 09-22-12 09:46 #
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Carnevil
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Phml said:
They have done well on marketing. If there wasn't a demo, I wouldn't have bought it. If that demo wasn't as substantial, no buy either - it took time for me to get hooked. If the game had been priced any higher, I would have waited for a sale below 10 bucks. AAA studios could learn from this.

Borderlands 2 is outselling it and it's 3x as expensive and not nearly as good IMO. High quality and thoughtfulness doesn't sell games... right Wrack? :(

Old Post 09-22-12 09:57 #
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Jodwin
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Carnevil said:
High quality and thoughtfulness doesn't sell games

Of course it doesn't. Brand recognition is a huge thing. For example there's a huge number of people who bought Diablo 3 yet ended up hoping they hadn't...but they had to buy it because it's Diablo 3 and it's made by Blizzard (even though it's not the same Blizzard that made original Diablos, but most of the people out there don't know the difference between Blizzard North and South).

The next CoD will sell just because it's CoD. Borderlands 2 sells just because it's Borderlands 2. iPhone will sell just because it's iPhone. Very few indie games have a strong enough brand recognition to get those huge pre-order and day 1 sales. And to be honest, no amount of marketing that you'll do during development can count for the passive marketing that, say, the Diablo franchise had gained over 15 years between Diablo 1 and Diablo 3.

Old Post 09-22-12 12:07 #
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Carnevil
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I agree completely. I also think there's a lot of cognitive dissonance from being locked into these purchases, and then the product turning out to not be that good. I think they resolve that conflict of "Wow, I spend a lot of time/money on this... and it sucks! How can I possibly live with this decision?!" by tricking themselves into thinking that the game is actually GOOD.

Old Post 09-22-12 14:23 #
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Phml
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E: Hokay I'm set up. Feel free to poke me into playing a game.


Added you on my friend list. Unless there's another ArmouredBlood floating around, but it seems doubtful. I'm Phml. Hurray for unconventional names. :)

Seems there's not a whole lot of tools when it comes to friends (i.e. being able to message people from inside the game to outside or the other way around, and getting alerts when friends pop up), but I suppose that's asking for a bit much.

Anyway, I'm playing right now in a lvl 1 Veteran softcore game named "Phml", password "DOOM", if anyone wants to join. I'm from France so pings may not be fantastic for those of you living across the pond, and there's another french friend with me - but we'll try to keep the frenchness down. ;)

Old Post 09-22-12 16:43 #
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sirjuddington
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Can't say I'm all that impressed with it, tbh. It feels even worse than the original torchlight somehow. Absolutely couldn't stand the embermage (way too squishy and not enough damage to make up for it), engineer is pretty cool though.

I'll have to play it some more I guess, but so far diablo 3 beats it in pretty much every way (well, except for the LAN support).

Old Post 09-22-12 17:06 #
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Mogul
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Personally, I love Diablo 3's skill system. You can create some very versatile builds that drastically change the way you play, sometimes simply by switching the runes on the skills. I find skill point systems (a la Torchlight, Diablo 2, etc) to be far-more restrictive than their supporters let on. To me, it's really just a more complicated way to make decisions that affect gameplay, and it's not really interesting. You get the same gameplay impact (actually, more, in my opinion) with D3's system. I suppose one thing that kind of makes the skill point approach interesting is having to balance the allocated points to get "enough" of everything you need.

But I have to say, post-D3 (which I've played exhaustively and completed on Inferno), playing TL2 feels like I've gone back in time 10 years, and I mean that in an archaic, weird way. Hopefully I can complete one or two runthroughs of the game this weekend and I might post again with a better-informed opinion.

Old Post 09-22-12 18:43 #
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Quast
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sirjuddington said:
Absolutely couldn't stand the embermage (way too squishy and not enough damage to make up for it), engineer is pretty cool though

You must be doing something wrong because embermages are almost brokenly OP atm. Zerkers otoh, are seriously undertuned and shields are are pointless to use as well because of low armor and block%.


Mogul said:
Personally, I love Diablo 3's skill system. You can create some very versatile builds that drastically change the way you play, sometimes simply by switching the runes on the skills. I find skill point systems (a la Torchlight, Diablo 2, etc) to be far-more restrictive than their supporters let on. To me, it's really just a more complicated way to make decisions that affect gameplay, and it's not really interesting. You get the same gameplay impact (actually, more, in my opinion) with D3's system. I suppose one thing that kind of makes the skill point approach interesting is having to balance the allocated points to get "enough" of everything you need.

I've fallen in love with torchlight 2, it's just amazingly good. It really is fun to play, most everything about it feels good and it scratches the itch that d3 couldn't hope to touch. But if d3 has even 1 redeeming factor, it definitely is the skill system. TL2 falls into a similar, but slightly different trap that d2 did. I'm level 35 on my embermage right now and i'm sitting on 16 unspent skill points. Most skills with a couple of exceptions are 'good enough' with a single point in them and provide such tiny increases in damage rank to rank to not justify spending points in them. And the 'tier bonuses' are mostly inconsequential. I mean if you're going to invest 15 points into a skill, something I might add that will take you to level 90ish to accomplish, you ought to get more in return than simply an additional 20% damage over rank 1.

Old Post 09-22-12 20:58 #
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