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Maes
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eargosedown said:


Only reasons to really pirate something is proletarian expropriation



FTFY, comrade.

Old Post 03-08-10 08:08 #
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Phml
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Alright but this standard was established mostly on PCs. This post is about demos on a PS3. You would rarely see demos for NES, SNES, Genesis, Turbo GFX, N64, etc. The only console until the newer generation to really push demos was the PS1, where demo discs tapered off the further it went into its life cycle. Until the 360 and PS3, console game demos were few and far between.


Ah, fair enough. I didn't pay enough attention to the thread and didn't notice it was about consoles.

Old Post 03-08-10 15:38 #
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Nomad
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From the sounds of it, this method Sony is backing might be better than the traditional "demo" model. It sounds like rather than forcing developers to allocate already strapped resources to waste time wrapping up part of their game for demo purposes, this will allow full games to go ahead and be released with the degrading code in place of a demo. You'd still be able to get a taste of the gameplay, and the developers wouldn't have to waste time and money making a demo.

It really sounds win-win to me, honestly. Unless you want to play the demo more than once/twice/however many times the game limits you to. In all honesty, except in few cases (like the Warhawk demo which has online multiplayer), there's rarely any incentive to play a demo more than once anyway. I don't see the problem everyone seems to have here.

Old Post 03-08-10 18:18 #
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eargosedown
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Maes said:


FTFY, comrade.



Come back on tuesday and I'll give reasons to justify murder too =p

Old Post 03-08-10 18:49 #
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Maes
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That's what I've been trying to say. This thread pretty much missed the whole fucking point.

Old Post 03-08-10 18:58 #
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GhostlyDeath
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When OPM was still around,I played all the demo discs. I sometimes still play the Demo of Time Splitters 2 for the PS2 from time to time. I also tried some other games just for fun.

Old Post 03-08-10 19:28 #
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Phobus
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I too remember the PS2 getting a lot of demo discs - although the downloadable demos on PSN and XBox Live! are a lot more helpful and easier to come by I think.

Old Post 03-08-10 20:23 #
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scalliano
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Nomad said:
...there's rarely any incentive to play a demo more than once anyway...


Exhibit A: Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2 on PS1. Many a night was wasted with my mates and I going mental on that one Marseille level. Then I bought the full game when it was released, and we STILL only played that level in MP sessions.

Old Post 03-08-10 20:51 #
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Nomad
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I said rarely any incentive, not never.

Old Post 03-08-10 22:50 #
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GreyGhost
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Nomad said:
It sounds like rather than forcing developers to allocate already strapped resources to waste time wrapping up part of their game for demo purposes, this will allow full games to go ahead and be released with the degrading code in place of a demo.
Sounds like a variant of the old shareware business model (which I think some called crippleware) where you received the full product but couldn't access some features until you purchased a registration key. On closed platforms like consoles that should work like a charm, on PC's there'd be cracks and keygens in the first week.

Old Post 03-09-10 05:29 #
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Aliotroph?
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With shareware games you almost never got the full game's content included. Scorched Earth is the only example I can think of where you did. There was a crack for its shareware restrictions, but what it gave you wasn't worth the effort.

Old Post 03-09-10 06:22 #
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Maes
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Cjwright79 said:
Hence, on the basis of 'human enjoyment is good in and of itself', it behooves you to pirate games that you couldn't pay for anyway, rather than sinking into spiritual torpor by watching The Price is Right and soaps all day. And in the unlikely event that you are sued for your transgressions, you have no money to take anyway.


Well said comrade! This IS the very definition of proletarian expropriation! (Raises left fist) "Arise, wretched of the earth...."

Old Post 03-09-10 08:12 #
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Nomad
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GreyGhost said:
Sounds like a variant of the old shareware business model (which I think some called crippleware) where you received the full product but couldn't access some features until you purchased a registration key. On closed platforms like consoles that should work like a charm, on PC's there'd be cracks and keygens in the first week.


Yeah, I can think of a few that still do that too; Paint Shop Pro, FL Studio, WinRAR (although WinRAR would probably be better considered "nagware" since it's still fully functional after the trial, it just nags you every time to register). You're right, they're easily cracked. I do think something like this could be quite successful on the consoles, though. Maybe not ethical in some cases, but it could work.

Old Post 03-09-10 19:19 #
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Jonathan
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Maes said:
That's what I've been trying to say. This thread pretty much missed the whole fucking point.


This. The level of stupidity and wilful, reactionary incomprehension in this thread makes my brain hurt. Giving away a full game and having it gradually degrade is just a different, and probably better, way to provide a way to try out a game than by getting people to download 3GB for a 20 minute demo.

BUT FUCK ACTUALLY READING THINGS AND REACTING APPROPRIATELY! RARGH! I POST ON THE DOOMWORLD FORUMS! I HATE THE GAMES INDUSTRY AND EVERYTHING MADE AFTER 1994!

Old Post 03-09-10 21:38 #
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Maes
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Jonathan said:
[b]Giving away a full game and having it gradually degrade is just a different, and probably better, way to provide a way to try out a game than by getting people to download 3GB for a 20 minute demo.


Also this. The eras where a demo was but a tiny fraction of a game are forever gone.

E.g. Doom's shareware was approximately 1/3rd of the full game, but of a game measured in MB. In terms of distribution, this meant just two extra installation floppies, in an age where CD-ROMs had started gaining momentum, that is, slim pickens.

The Under a Killing Moon demo (a game relying heavily on FMV, BTW) could fit in a CD alongside other stuff, while the full game was 4 CDs. The Need for Speed demo (yeah, I'm talking about the original) was under 50 MB, had one full playable level and some of the extra features, and the full game was 1 whole CD.

There are countless examples, but now that games have a radically different resource architecture, large numbers of resources etc. even a demo version is going to be huge and not optimized down to the last bit. Both will require at least a single DVD to fit in or a multi-GB download which will then further expand on disk, so it makes no sense maintaining a separate code and resource branch.

A minor exception are those demos that have an online community e.g. there's still a community for the BF1942 Wake Island demo, those still have a reason to exist, but large single player "interactive experiences"? Better have one unified form with degrading.

The only thing I worry about is what new forms of DRM they will include to protect these degrading mechanisms.

Old Post 03-09-10 22:04 #
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Jodwin
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Nomad said:
You'd still be able to get a taste of the gameplay, and the developers wouldn't have to waste time and money making a demo.

What makes you think that you could just take a full game, press the huge magic button and then have the game turn into a degrading demo right away? You'd still need to apply the actual degrading technology into the game, games which are likely to vary a lot from a technological point of view. So it's not going to save much developer effort, more likely the other way around (in normal demos you could just add some simple checks at, say, level change and then change the game logo to include "DEMO", while with this you'd need to adapt your game code and assets to work with a third part technology).

Old Post 03-09-10 22:18 #
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Maes
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Jodwin said:

while with this you'd need to adapt your game code and assets to work with a third part technology.



BUT J0DW1N, L0L, THAT'S WHAT ENTERPRISEY PROGRAMMING IS ALL ABOUT!

Old Post 03-09-10 22:33 #
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myk
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Aliotroph? said:
With shareware games you almost never got the full game's content included. Scorched Earth is the only example I can think of where you did. There was a crack for its shareware restrictions, but what it gave you wasn't worth the effort.
In the 90s, yeah, when shareware became a useful commercial gimmick using a demo to sell a full game. The earlier BBS shareware movement was more like freeware with a notice to register to support the author and maybe get something extra like the manual, a poster, or updates sent to you. That said, most of early shareware wasn't games and the games were mostly simple, akin to today's "flash games" on the web. Take Kung Fu Louie vs. the Martial Arts Posse as an example of what I'm talking about.

Old Post 03-14-10 23:12 #
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POTGIESSER
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If it were a full product offered for free, but functionality becoming progressively gimped to seduce you into buying it then it would make sense.

But if it were like shell out 80 dollars for CoD 10, only to have multiplayer functional for 5 days until you pay another 30 dollars, they can *insert bestiality references*

Yet, say you only cared about single player and they offered the game for 30 bucks, and unlocking fully functional multiplayer would cost you another $20 then it would be a reasonable business model. Which I don't ever see it becoming. As they're only out to gouge people.

Seeing as we live in an age where people will pay $15 for 3 new multiplayer maps it can only get worse, not better for the consumer. Long gone are the days of developers churning out patches of additional content out of pure passion for their product, and appreciation of the gaming community.

Old Post 03-20-10 21:22 #
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