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Technician
Still no custom title

Posts: 5772
Registered: 08-04

This news is getting a little stale, but I'm just glad a part of the country has finally stood up to make America a better Christian country. Because we all know right wing Christian fundies cannot disprove historical facts and evidences, so why not just destroy them. Simple as that.

Maybe next, we'll get rid of that blasphemous fossil record.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7qc...feature=related

I'd really like to dive deep in this communities opinion. Would something like this truely change a country?

03-22-10 03:36 #

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GreyGhost
a ghost... only grey

Posts: 5703
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There are obvious parallels between what's currently going on in Texas and the long-running Japanese government practice of authorizing school textbooks that have disguised or omitted embarrassing truths, which is bound to have had some effect after 50+ years. Though it's not as if re-writing history is something new, people have been doing it throughout recorded history. Egyptian pharaohs often had the name of a more successful predecessor chiseled out and replaced in order to steal their glory, people were routinely erased from Roman records if they fell out of favour with the emperor and religious intolerance was often accompanied by book-burning - an effective way of suppressing heretical thought in the days before the printing press.

McLeroy and his fellow reactionaries on the Texas Board of Education are following a well-trodden path.

03-22-10 05:49 #

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Maes
I like big butts!

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GreyGhost said:
Though it's not as if re-writing history is something new, people have been doing it throughout recorded history.

Well, Greek textbooks are pretty cryptic and murky when it comes to e.g. the Civil War (also because many "important figures" of the day are still alive and some even have important positions).

As to if it can change a country...sure, in the long term. Islamic countries, even "moderate" one are extreme examples of how religious fundamentalism and dogmatism cancels prior history and civilization, sometimes tacitly over the course of many centuries, and sometimes loudly and forcibly in the course of a few years or months.

A prime example of this are arabian countries: they often cite "Arab's contributions to science and progress" (which is true) but they candidly omit to mention that, by and large, these were done in the pre-Islamic period, and that Islam essentially puts everything on ice wherever it goes.

Last edited by Maes on 03-22-10 at 09:17

03-22-10 09:10 #

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neubejiita
Member

Posts: 426
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Greece invented the Antikythera mechanism that could calculate the positions of the planets and many other contributions to science and astronomy, although not as early as the Sumerians that knew about another star that was surrounded by planets well before the church thought that the Earth was the center of the Solar System, and burned people for believing otherwise. How brave was Galileo Galilee to stick to his heretical belief that the Sun was the center of the Solar System. Some people use to believe that the Earth was flat.

The church has done more damage to science than any other group on Earth. How many crimes have they committed in the name of their imaginary God they cannot even prove exists.

03-22-10 09:50 #

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Maes
I like big butts!

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The church is also a prime example of lack of coherency and consistency in its positions: they softened up and adapted to avoid losing territories/property/proselytes with the time.

E.g. I'm sure that they called black powder "the work of the devil" at first, but had no problems using it themselves rather than lose their territories, when they still were a conquering warlord kingdom (check out how popes in the 15th and 16th century are depicted, they're anything but feeble old men in white robes).

Islam on the other hand has much more consistency in its positions...a bit too much perhaps. The only modern christian group that is as radical are the Amish, but yeah, once upon a time all christianity was pretty much like a big Amish community. Most have moved on ever since.

03-22-10 10:34 #

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Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!

Posts: 7042
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The largest issue with religiousness is the closed-mindedness and segregationism it encourages. A perfect example. All religions want to discourage mixed marriages.

Maes said:
A prime example of this are arabian countries: they often cite "Arab's contributions to science and progress" (which is true) but they candidly omit to mention that, by and large, these were done in the pre-Islamic period, and that Islam essentially puts everything on ice wherever it goes.

Also, most of their contributions were simply translating and safekeeping texts from their neighbors on all sides. Of course, that was still much better than active amnesia as was going on in Europe at these times. Still, they did some actual research in medicine.

neubejiita said:
The church has done more damage to science than any other group on Earth.

The church was also in Europe throughout the Middle Ages the only scholarly institution. They're responsible for some good things, such as the introduction of the so-called Arab numerals (much better than Roman numerals) and the invention of music sheet. But given their bias, they suppressed a lot of stuff that would have been interesting to keep; and they prevented research in many fields (especially medicine).

03-22-10 10:55 #

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GhostlyDeath
Forum Retard

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Gez said:
All religions want to discourage mixed marriages.

If you mean racial, no.
If you mean religious, usually yes.

Also, the middle age church was corrupt and all they wanted was your money. Many churches are still like that today. They take religous text out of context to put money in their pocket.

For example: "Help someone and get a reward." instead of "[If you go into your heart and] help someone and [save them do not always expect that you will] get a reward.". No real religious text is used here, but that is one way people trick you into giving them your money.

03-22-10 11:24 #

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DooMikE
Junior Member

Posts: 102
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Technician wrote: ...Because we all know right wing Christian fundies cannot disprove historical facts and evidences, so why not just destroy them. Simple as that. Maybe next, we'll get rid of that blasphemous fossil record.

You surely can�t be serious!? That would be a huge victory for the right wing Christian "science". Do you believe they�d shut up about it then and leave the subject alone?

The scenario where a parent takes away a toy that�s causing conflict between two kids does not apply to this situation, because one of the kids is playing with an imaginary toy that cannot be confiscated.

I don�t think that their real quest is about disproving Charles Darwins theories or any of the other "real" sciences - it�s about power, mindcontrol and wanting to call (all!) the shots.

If you want to see how well such a society is working, then read up on Myanmar (burma), Campuchea (Cambodia) and/or Nazi Germany. Active resistance is the only way if you want to keep the right to ask questions...

...Would something like this truely change a country?

Ending with a joke: You�re talking about the US? I�m not really sure anyone would notice any real difference!

03-22-10 11:51 #

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Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!

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GhostlyDeath said:
If you mean religious, usually yes.

I thought it was quite blatant. These people in the linked article want civil marriage so that they can marry who they want, because the churches won't let them marry out of their faith.

GhostlyDeath said:
Also, the middle age church was corrupt and all they wanted was your money.

Don't oversimplify stuff. The Church was a huge institution, with plenty of different branches and plenty of different people with very divergent personalities. You had many corrupt and greedy people, sure; but you had also some who were far too uptight and fanatical for that.

(A big thing to remember is that, for nobility, the Church was a good place to send your cadet sons. That way you didn't have to divide your estate too much, as the elder son could keep everything yet the others would still have a place to call home. The result? Plenty of aristocrats with, let's say, varying degrees of actual faith becoming priests and bishops, with a strong temptation to run their parish as a fief. The prohibition against priest marriage that the Church instated during that time was to prevent them from turning it completely into a carbon copy of feudal nobility, as they had started to bestow their title and the Church's holdings to their sons...)

03-22-10 12:39 #

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myk
volver� y ser� millones

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Gez said:
The largest issue with religiousness is the closed-mindedness and segregationism it encourages.

That's ugly but I get the impression it's a rather usual condition for people under certain shitty circumstances, just like its usual for a troubled individual to become neurotic or worse. I think special attention needs to be put on those who aren't so dogmatic but use these aspects for political gain, such as for example in the '80s, when the Republican party in the US relied on the "Christian Right" to get the presidency and on Islamic belligerence to attack Soviet forces. Feeding those fires they unleashed latent monsters that mutated into Islamic jihads and the creationist movement.

03-22-10 13:56 #

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Texas Libra
Member

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1. As a Texan, I'm totally embarrassed by this Mr. (note how I didn't use the title of "Dr.") McLeroy's proposal of changing the history books.

2. Former college cheerleader? That just screams "closet case". That explains everything.

03-22-10 14:07 #

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Mr. Freeze
Senior Member

Posts: 1535
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Gez said:
The largest issue with religiousness is the closed-mindedness and segregationism it encourages. A perfect example. All religions want to discourage mixed marriages.

Holy shit. This may be the stupidest post I've ever read in my entire life.

Just because some backasswards religion in some backwater country throws a shitfit, does NOT mean that every religion feels the same way. Hell, my mother was a Catholic and my father was Greek Orthodox. My Christian cousin recently married a Muslim. Your ignorance is truly astounding.

Oh wait, you were dragged to church during Easter and remained pissed off for the rest of your life, right? Grow up.

Also, we already had a thread about this. Yeah, no one likes this. Yeah, it's bullshit. TS, you are preaching to the choir.

03-22-10 14:41 #

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GreyGhost
a ghost... only grey

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DooMikE said:
I don�t think that their real quest is about disproving Charles Darwins theories or any of the other "real" sciences

The smarter creationists (is that an oxymoron?) probably realize that the evidence supporting evolution is overwhelming, so their strategy would be to keep chanting "it's an unproven theory" while removing references to evolution, Darwin, Galapagos Finches and etc. from the textbooks, hoping that in due course the theory of evolution will fade from society's collective memory.

03-22-10 14:49 #

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Belial
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neubejiita said:
How brave was Galileo Galilee to stick to his heretical belief that the Sun was the center of the Solar System.

He didn't stick to it, otherwise he'd get burnt alongside his book.

03-22-10 14:52 #

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Maes
I like big butts!

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Belial said:

He didn't stick to it, otherwise he'd get burnt alongside his book.

E pur si muove!

03-22-10 15:01 #

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Belial
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If I hadn't known about this earlier, I'd have said I stopped reading after 'Legend has it'. :P

03-22-10 15:19 #

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Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!

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Mr. Freeze said:
Holy shit. This may be the stupidest post I've ever read in my entire life.

In which country did you grow up? Somewhere in the Western world, where churches have been successfully neutered by more than two hundred years of secularism?

In places where the clergy runs the show, as they did in Europe before the Enlightenment (which did necessitate sometimes to send a number of clergymen to the guillotine, by the way), mixed marriages are not seen kindly.

03-22-10 15:29 #

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Keyblade Master
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Posts: 156
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After reading all this, It just saddends and sickens me me to see that religious individuals and greedy corporations still want to enslave the common man and to recreate the tyrannical living standards of the Middle ages. we can no longer sit by and watch the world go to hell. Eventually, we will have to arms ourself and fight once more for Freedom, Justice and the Pursuit of Happiness. As Patrick Henry himself once said

"I know not what course other men may take. But as for me, Give me liberty or give me death!"

I deeply believe in all three of those values and if I could, I would glady kill all of the fundamentalist and corporate tyrants with a Shotgun just to save my nation from tyrany. Freedom, What does it mean to you?

For me, Freedom cannot be taken for granted. I don't understand why the people have not found the courage to rise up against the wretched zealots, or the selfish CEO's. Hell, I would think that the US army would not even try to stop the anrgry mob due to the fact that they too have suffered from the same things.

03-22-10 21:22 #

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Creaphis
I will deliberately take a contrary position just for the sake of writing incredibly long arguments

Posts: 3991
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Because killing people for thinking differently is okay when we do it.

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03-22-10 23:23 #

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Mr. Freeze
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Keyblade Master said:
I deeply believe in all three of those values

Keyblade Master said:
I would glady kill all of the fundamentalist and corporate tyrants with a Shotgun

You are a dumbass.

03-23-10 00:46 #

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Keyblade Master
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@Mr.Freeze:Yes, but at least I am not afraid to fight for what I believe in. Freedom still cannot be taken for granted, Such as you seems to do. we all can't continue to lie to ourself and assume that everything will be alright. we cannot ignore the inevitable. the zealots and the CEOs hate all of us, because we are free. they believe that we should be their slaves.

03-23-10 00:58 #

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fraggle
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A fun game to play: go back and read through Keyblade Master's posts again, but every time there is a reference to corporate CEOs, do a mental substitution for "Jews".

03-23-10 01:05 #

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Keyblade Master
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@fraggle:I am not racist!! why on earth are you misreading my post.

03-23-10 01:10 #

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fraggle
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I never said you were racist. Why are you misreading my post?

03-23-10 01:36 #

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Keyblade Master
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fraggle said:
A fun game to play: go back and read through Keyblade Master's posts again, but every time there is a reference to corporate CEOs, do a mental substitution for "Jews".

That last line is why. I tend to read between the lines as well and sometimes I wind up reading a submessage. the conotation that you were making on accident was this "Keyblade is a Racist". Please be careful and think about the sub context of what you are typing.

03-23-10 02:11 #

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Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!

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I'm pretty sure Fraggle is smart enough to know that "CEO" is not a race, and that the connotation he was actually implying was "Keyblade is a dumbass".

As a general rule, "killing all the <fill in blank>" is very seldom an efficient solution to any problem. Thinking that the world would be a better place if only we didn't have to share it with <people we don't like> is a simplistic viewpoint which tends to create a lot more troubles than it can ever hope to solve.

03-23-10 02:22 #

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myk
volver� y ser� millones

Posts: 14422
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Besides, if you hate "corporate hegemony" why attack only the CEOs? They're basically high-paid employees. Non-managing owners and other employees would escape blame?

Keyblade Master, keep in mind a racist is a bigoted person, just like other bigots who aren't specifically racist. A racist is usually the most obvious example of a bigot.

03-23-10 03:14 #

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Keyblade Master
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@Myk:I mean tthe whole corporate hegemony starting with the CEOs because the CEOs happen to be at the top of the ladder. What happen when you take out any form of leadership? It falls aparts and loses it power. by taking out the evil leadership of both entities they will be unable to mantain control over the people and they will lose their foul influnce.

03-23-10 03:46 #

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GreyGhost
a ghost... only grey

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Keyblade Master said:
Eventually, we will have to arms ourself and fight once more for Freedom, Justice and the Pursuit of Happiness.

As they did in France, Russia, China and Cambodia - in each case replacing an unpopular regime with one that was no better or demonstrably worse.

I deeply believe in all three of those values and if I could, I would glady kill all of the fundamentalist and corporate tyrants with a Shotgun just to save my nation from tyrany.

Replacing the tyranny of the few with the tyranny of the mob?