advice on which headphones to get

So, I need to replace my crummy Sennheiser PMX-60's since their earpads are literally withering away. I'm looking around for something better, and I've narrowed my choices down to the following closed headphones.

Sennheiser HD25-II
AKG K272-HD
Sennheiser 280 Pro
Audio Technica ATH-M50

So my question is, can anyone give a recommendation, or some experiences with any of them?

What sort of things will you be using these for? If you're using them just for general use, I'd recommend looking for one with the widest response range (try not to go narrower than 20Hz - 20KHz) and then see if you can try some in a store somewhere. If you're doing audio stuff, get a wide response range, but also get some that are as flat in their frequency response as possible.

I know you didn't list these, but since I don't have direct experience with any of the ones you listed, I'll go ahead and recommend the Sony MDR-7506 or MDR-7509HD models. My 7506s have lasted me for close to nine years and are still going strong.

Based on your selection, is this for a studio setup? Or just for listening to at night or whatever? Do you require a closed headphone (open headphones for the same price range have better sound quality)?

Note that the Sennheiser HD25-II are supra-aural (sits on the ears) like the PMX-60 while the others are circum-aural (sits around the ears). Not sure about the AKG K272-HD, but the others will probably be quite uncomfortable for extended listening sessions.

I haven't heard any of them myself, but from what I have heard others say on the 280 Pro and ATH-M50, they're both have a fairly flat sound signature without much colorization. Subjectively, they should all be an improvement over your PMX-60s though.

The reason they're all closed headphones is because I'm tired of all the noise around me, so I want something that can also isolate some or most of the outside noise.

The intended purpose is mostly for listening to music (varying from genre inbetween metal and electronic). My preference would be a flat sound signature, I'm not interested in maximum bass but rather a neutral, non-tiring listening experience. I also have my current PMX-60's on for hours at a time, sometimes even an entire day, so they really have to be comfortable.

Reviews seem to prefer the Sennheisers and AKG as far as neutral sound is concerned, though each with their own nuances obviously. As for wearing comfort, that's hard to gauge from reviews. I do intend to visit an audio store when I'm closing in a bit more on what I'm looking for. I suppose my choice does not have to be limited to what I listed.

exl said:

My preference would be a flat sound signature, I'm not interested in maximum bass but rather a neutral, non-tiring listening experience. I also have my current PMX-60's on for hours at a time, sometimes even an entire day, so they really have to be comfortable.

It's not so much emphasis on bass. When people ask specifically for heavy bass headphones, I direct them to cheap. Spending more money on headphones will generally give you less emphasis on bass, but what's there will be better quality. It sounds like you're on the right track anyway. :)

exl said:
Sennheiser 280 Pro

I just bought a pair of these, mostly because they seemed to be a good compromise between cost and sound quality. But I can't really comment on the sound or comfort yet since I've only had them a week and have only got around a half-hour's use out of them.

What I can say: they are quite good at rejecting outside noise -- I can't hear the window air conditioner in the same room as me and the traffic at the intersection beyond it while I'm wearing them. The cord is coiled, so I suppose if it were to drag across a surface it'd carry that washboard sound straight to your ears. But on the other hand that keeps it out of the way when you're closer to the headphone jack...

Sennheiser. I've never had a had product from them. Just stay away from those Skull Candy gimmicks.

Technician said:

Sennheiser. I've never had a had product from them. Just stay away from those Skull Candy gimmicks.

A majority of Sennheiser's products are no better. Most of them are a flood of low end products where a majority of sales are made. Their products that are worth buying are often over-priced against their competition because of their brand power. So doing research, as the OP has, is very important.

AKG has never let me down with any of their headphones. I have both an AKG K-66 and a K-99, which are both *lower* end than the one you're looking at, and they've been absolutely fantastic. I'd go with them, personally.

If, as you say, isolation is a significant factor for you, you might consider in-ear earbuds. Some can be chintzy, but you will get much better isolation at lower volumes (hooray preserving hearing) than with cans.

I recently purchased a set of Sleek Audio SA-1 earbuds, and I probably wouldn't buy them again. They're boomy around 400-600Hz, and they spike around 2kHz - typical rock mix crap. Comparatively, I had a set of Shure earbuds; I can't remember the model but they sounded pretty excellent. Overall though, I've never had a problem with "not enough bass"; I had a set of Bose that had way too much actually, I was pretty surprised.

Don't worry too much about discomfort. Your ears get used to the earbuds in about a week of solid use, and compared with cans I don't get sore ears or listening fatigue anymore. Plus they're waaaaay easier to carry around :) .

Good luck! Purchasing a new set of headphones is both exciting & frustrating, here's hoping you come out with a great set.

Look for a well known brand, you need quality, you don't want half of your headphones to die very soon.

I'm happy with HD202 Sennheisers which are like 1/5th to 1/10th as expensive as the ones you're looking at.

I'm using some weird Plantronics things with square cans over my ears (can't find a model #). Other than the fact that they block out the world nicely, they kind of suck. I had to manhandle Winamp's EQ into something like a sine wave for most music to sound good, meaning I can only really use them on this computer.

Once you get a nice flat sound from headphones you realize everyone encodes MP3s badly enough that the treble is ruined anyway. :(

I had written up a lengthy post wanking about all this stuff and how much I know about headphones etc, but realized no one cares and deleted it. I own and have own a lot of high end headphones though, and keep track of what's good and what's not. To not get into too much detail, the good picks on your list are the AKG K272-HD, and the ATH-M50. They both have a good reputation.

If I could add one more in a similar price range for consideration:

Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro - These are just an amazing, sturdy, comfortable earphone with a fantastic sound. Some consider them a bit bass-heavy, but I feel the bass is, while plentiful, not subject to sound horrible like Dr. Dre beats: not bloated and flabby, but warm. I have owned a pair personally for quite a long time and they are almost always my first go-to pair of headhpones.

Alright, some pretty good information here, thanks. I think I shouldn't rule out in-ear earbud thingies, though I'm worried they may just irritate me being inside my ear after all. After reading up some more, the Beyerdynamic DT-770 has piqued my interest. It's just inside my price range as well. Now to find a retailed to test.

Belial said:

I'm happy with HD202 Sennheisers which are like 1/5th to 1/10th as expensive as the ones you're looking at.

Me or him?

If you're thinking of listening for prolonged periods of time, like a pair of headphones you wear for an all-night gaming session rather than an album at a time or something, you don't want in-ear monitors. IEMs are very fatiguing in my experience, and do not provide a good sound quality-to-cost ratio because of their size. They generally end up sounding less full than a full sized headphone would.

Now personally I never demo'd a pair of headphones before buying it, I just read like hundreds of reviews of that headphones, the ones near it in its company's lineup, and all of its competition. If you stalk Head-Fi enough you begin to develop a vocabulary and come to an understanding about what certain headphones sound like without ever having worn them.

Part of the way you develop this kind of vocabulary is through owning or demoing a lot of headphones, though. Usually this doesn't mean going out and buying a full price pair of headphones, but rather trading used phones around or getting on a circuit to ship a test pair around the country. That or hooking up with local headphone enthusiasts and having a little meet. So you may not find you get the headphone you were looking for originally, but that's OK. You can always trade.

From my experience, you can get some pretty good sounding open or semi-closed headphones on the cheap (under Eur. 10), but the biggest difference between a good brand like Sony and a noname headphone seems to be in the durability, rather than the quality. I'm still using a pair of ancient Sony MDR-1 open-type headhones, which have went through anything ranging from 80s walkmans, desktop CD players, 90s soundcards, computers, MP3 players. They are not exactly Hi-fi material but they managed pretty well at very diverse situations, with reasonably quality and power. Their padding is literally falling into pieces but I'd rather repair it than throw them away.

The reason? Their cables are made from durable materials, have not lost their flexibility (for the most part) and thus haven't suffered the fate of many cheaper -but equally well sounding- headphones I've went through: bent/broken/corroded/interrupted cables and desoldered contacts.

I broke some of the plastic holding one of the speakers on my Sony headphones. I still can't work out a good way to fix it. They are still better than a $10 pair, though.

Hot glue is your friend ;-)

Out of the ones you listed, for listening to metal and electronic, I would recommend the HD25-II as long as it is the HD25-1-II version and not the HD25-SP-II version. If it is the SP version, then I would recommend the M50 over that.

For the HD25, I would strongly suggest demoing it first, as since it is a supra-aural style headphone, it achieves its seal by having a strong clamping force against your head/ears. Some find them quite uncomfortable, whereas it doesn't bother others at all. I'm personally one of the former, but I also have a large head, so if you have a smaller head they probably won't bother you.

As far as having a flat sound signature, I personally still find the Sony MDR-V6 (a.k.a Sony MDR-7506) to be the best. Not a terribly exciting headphone, obviously, but great for making music with.

As far as comfort goes, you really can't beat Beyerdynamic's full size stuff (like the DT-770, DT-880, DT-990, etc). Some stuff from Denon and Audio-Technica comes pretty close, though.

I went with the Beyerdynamic DT-770 80 Ohm option, and love it so far. Sound as good as I can make out with an Asus Xonar Essence sound card. The 80 Ohm version does have a bit more bass than I'd like, so the 250 Ohm version would have been a better option. Still, nothing a very light equalizer tweak can't fix. It's cable is also a pleasant 3 meters, so I can run it behind my desk instead of having it dangle next to me hooked up into the front panel. And with a nice velour fabric over the cups, it's comfy too, even for longer preiods of time. And it isolates pretty well. About 50 to 80% of all outside sound is gone, and most of whats left is muffled considerably.

The Xonar is a different story, somewhat. I spent nearly 2 hours screwing about with drivers and sound settings until it suddenly started working. I have not rebooted yet to see if it keeps working though. There is some difference I can make out when using this soundcard compared to the onboard Realtek HD thing, but I'm not yet sure if it is worth putting down the money for.

Welcome to the Beyer club my friend! Glad you're enjoying them. I've never heard the 80 myself, but all DT-770s have a bass heavy reputation. The 250s simply differ more in performance given different amplification, but if you're going straight from audio card the 80 ohm is definitely the right choice for you. And yeah, all it takes is a little EQ nudging, but the sweet spot isn't far off.