Icon of Sin / Baphomet
Register | User Profile | Member List | F.A.Q | Privacy Policy | New Blog | Search Forums | Forums Home
Doomworld Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.5 Doomworld Forums > Misc. > Everything Else > Mind bending question.... paradox
Pages (2): « 1 [2]  
Author
All times are GMT. The time now is 00:02. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Scientist
False Prophet


Posts: 663
Registered: 03-02



Originally posted by Phoenix

How? Science has yet to understand one item of nature let alone God.


OK. Lets take one step back and look at Science.
In Science one formulates a hypothesis. For instance
"All swans are white." This hypothesis is assumed to be correct
untill some-one comes along with a swan that is not white, but
blue. Then the old hypothesis is rejected and a new is formed.
For instance: "all swans are white or blue."
This hypothesis will probably in time be rejected as well.
ect, ect.
This all means that one can never be sure if a hypothesis is fully
true, for we do not know if it will ever be proven wrong.
A hypothesis can only be proven wrong.

So indeed Science will never claim that god is truly dead
or that it truly understands one item of nature. We can only
assume the surviving hypothesis to be true (for their time being).

What I meant by "god is dead, Science killed 'm", is that evermore
people are accepting the above process to gain knowlegde, instead
of simply accepting anything the bible or the church tells you
to be true.

Old Post 04-03-02 22:49 #
Scientist is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
fodders
OWNS YOU


Posts: 5810
Registered: 05-00


With the hypothesis all swans are white, upon being confronted with a blue swan, a true scientist would not reach hypothesis "All swans are white or blue" but "Swans are not always white"

__________________
Fod's page Son's place De Man's place
You are my opponent, but not my enemy, for your resistance gives me strength. Your will gives me courage. Your spirit ennobles me. And, although I aim to defeat you, should I succeed, I will not humiliate you, instead I will honour you..For without you, I am a lesser man.

Last edited by fodders on 04-03-02 at 23:54

Old Post 04-03-02 23:43 #
fodders is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Danarchy
YOU CAN'T CUT BACK ON FUNDING! YOU WILL REGRET THIS!


Posts: 14164
Registered: 01-01


What about black swans? They live in Australia...

__________________
-D(A)N

Old Post 04-04-02 05:02 #
Danarchy is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
fodders
OWNS YOU


Posts: 5810
Registered: 05-00



the_Danarchist said:
What about black swans? They live in Australia...
And, I seem to remember have a mighty fine beer named after them? I spent a great day at brewery there in 1970 after tour of brewery they opened a bar inside workplace and all beer was free, when you got to the front of the queue, got your beer, went to back of queue and drank it while waiting to get to front again...happy days :)

__________________
Fod's page Son's place De Man's place
You are my opponent, but not my enemy, for your resistance gives me strength. Your will gives me courage. Your spirit ennobles me. And, although I aim to defeat you, should I succeed, I will not humiliate you, instead I will honour you..For without you, I am a lesser man.

Old Post 04-04-02 12:23 #
fodders is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Scientist
False Prophet


Posts: 663
Registered: 03-02


Fodders,

Your signature:

"You are my opponent, but not my enemy,
For your resistance gives me strength
Your will gives me courage
Your spirit ennobles me
And, although I aim to defeat you,
Should I succeed, I will not humiliate you
Instead I will honour you..
For without you, I am a lesser man."

It's good, who's it from?

PS. I'll get back to you on the "better" hypothesis
thing!

Old Post 04-04-02 15:35 #
Scientist is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
fodders
OWNS YOU


Posts: 5810
Registered: 05-00


No idea, sorry, I just heard it one night on TV in an ad for the winter Olympics, and thought "That is how Doom should be played in DM"

__________________
Fod's page Son's place De Man's place
You are my opponent, but not my enemy, for your resistance gives me strength. Your will gives me courage. Your spirit ennobles me. And, although I aim to defeat you, should I succeed, I will not humiliate you, instead I will honour you..For without you, I am a lesser man.

Old Post 04-04-02 15:46 #
fodders is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Phoenix
Member


Posts: 345
Registered: 02-01



Scientist said:
So indeed Science will never claim that god is truly dead
or that it truly understands one item of nature. We can only
assume the surviving hypothesis to be true (for their time being).

What I meant by "god is dead, Science killed 'm", is that evermore
people are accepting the above process to gain knowlegde, instead
of simply accepting anything the bible or the church tells you
to be true. [/B]
Yep, as much as I hate the church myself, so far science makes little if any sense either. The church and science both have one common denominator, human intellect or the lack there off. In other words, if you freed yourself from the church, the next step is to get free from the "science" bla bla. - I know you wanted to explain how scientist work, I wanted to explain how scientist think, and that they are still only human beings, emotional and 99percent of the time irrational. You see there is no way you will find what you think does not exist.

__________________
Time waits for no one ...

Old Post 04-04-02 16:22 #
Phoenix is offline Profile || Blog || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Scientist
False Prophet


Posts: 663
Registered: 03-02



fodders said:
With the hypothesis all swans are white, upon being confronted with a blue swan, a true scientist would not reach hypothesis "All swans are white or blue" but "Swans are not always white"

The hypothesis "Swans are not always white" would not be a good scientific hypothesis. The reason for it is that this statemant cannot be proven wrong. It is simply always correct. A hypothesis should be able to be tested and falsified. There's no point in running experiments on the hypothesis "Swans are not always white".
The hypothesis would always be maintained, it's not specific enough.

I can hear you wondering:
Why do Scientists say things like "All swans are white or blue (or black)" while they know this could be proven wrong in the future?
Why wouldn't they say "Swans are not always white"? A statement with is always 100% correct. Doesn't science seek 100% truth?

The answers to these questions:
Yes, Science seeks 100% truth. The thing is HOW they claim to find it:

Science admits that you cannot trully know something is CORRECT (like all swans being white). But you can know if something is INCORRECT (a blue swan proofs not all swans are white).
If we know all that is incorrect, what remains is all that is correct.
So by increasing the quantity of all the things we know are incorrect, we're getting closer to pure correct statements. This is the way science works.

I admit it's a complicated way to get to true knowledge. And even if Science would bring us real true knowledge this way Science could not proof it to be real true knowledge. This is because Science cannot proof things to be right only wrong.
It would never accept true knowledge as real true knowledge, but just as a hypothesis that has not (yet) been proven wrong.

I can't think of a better path the true knowledge,
pretty depressing actually, but it's the best way man has come up with, with his limited intellect.

Old Post 04-04-02 23:09 #
Scientist is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
IMJack
Web Radio Geek


Posts: 3704
Registered: 10-01


A better way to put fod's stateent (logic-wise) is "There exists at least one swan that is not white.

"True knowledge" is an oxymoron. It's true that the Scientific Method is the process of methodically seeking contradictions to existing theories, and applying the results of experiments to revise theories. That Has Been Established (TM). But it's not the search for true knowledge so much as it is the search for explainations for the natural world. I mean, all the scientific knowledge in the world is no good if you don't know how to do anything with it.

Hey Man of Science, with your perfect rules of measure,
Can you improve this place with the data that you gather?

__________________
Listen Up!!! http://radio.utdallas.edu/ Monday nights 10-midnight Central

Old Post 04-04-02 23:21 #
IMJack is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
fodders
OWNS YOU


Posts: 5810
Registered: 05-00


Problem: To Catch a Lion in the Sahara Desert.

1. Mathematical Methods

1.1 The Hilbert (axiomatic) method

We place a locked cage onto a given point in the desert. After that
we introduce the following logical system:
Axiom 1: The set of lions in the Sahara is not empty.
Axiom 2: If there exists a lion in the Sahara, then there exists a
lion in the cage.
Procedure: If P is a theorem, and if the following is holds:
"P implies Q", then Q is a theorem.
Theorem 1: There exists a lion in the cage.

1.2 The geometrical inversion method

We place a spherical cage in the desert, enter it and lock it from
inside.
Case 1: The lion is inside the cage. This case is trivial.
Case 2: The lion is outside the cage. We then perform an inversion
with respect to the cage. Then the lion is inside the cage, and we
are outside.
Warning: With this method, it is important not to stand in the middle
of the cage, as one will disappear in the infinite.

1.3 The projective geometry method

Without loss of generality, we can view the desert as a plane surface.
We project the surface onto a line and afterwards the line onto an
interior point of the cage. Thereby the lion is mapped onto that same
point.

1.4 The Bolzano-Weierstrass method

Divide the desert by a line running from north to south. The lion is
then either in the eastern or in the western part. Let's assume it is
in the eastern part. Divide this part by a line running from east to
west. The lion is either in the northern or in the southern part.
Let's assume it is in the northern part. We can continue this process
arbitrarily and thereby constructing with each step an increasingly
narrow fence around the selected area. The diameter of the chosen
partitions converges to zero so that the lion is caged into a fence of
arbitrarily small diameter.
Warning: With this method take care that the beautifull skin of the
lion is not damaged.

1.5 The set theoretical method

We observe that the desert is a separable space. It therefore
contains an enumerable dense set of points which constitutes a
sequence with the lion as its limit. With a cage on our backs,
we jump from point to point of this sequence an so approach the lion
as near as we like.

1.6 The Peano method

In the usual way construct a curve containing every point in the
desert. It has been proven [1] that such a curve can be traversed in
arbitrarily short time. Now we traverse the curve, carrying a spear,
in a time less than what it takes the lion to move a distance equal to
its own length.

1.7 A topological method

We observe that the lion possesses the topological gender of a torus.
We embed the desert in a four dimensional space. Then it is possible
to apply a deformation [2] of such a kind that the lion when returning
to the three dimensional space is all tied up in itself. It is then
completely helpless.

1.8 The Cauchy method

We examine a lion-valued function f(z). Be \zeta the cage. Consider
the integral

1 [ f(z)
------- I --------- dz
2 \pi i ] z - \zeta

C

where C represents the boundary of the desert. Its value is f(zeta),
i.e. there is a lion in the cage [3].

1.9 The Wiener-Tauber method

We obtain a tame lion, L_0, from the class L(-\infinity,\infinity),
whose fourier transform vanishes nowhere. We put this lion somewhere
in the desert. L_0 then converges toward our cage. According to the
general Wiener-Tauner theorem [4] every other lion L will converge
toward the same cage. (Alternatively we can approximate L arbitrarily
close by translating L_0 through the desert [5].)

1.10 The Mathematical Induction method

Consider, for each n, the following statement:
P(n) : 'It is possible to catch n lions in the desert.'
Of course, P(n) is true for large enough n, because the lions are then
so tightly packed together that it is easy to catch them. But now,
P(n) implies P(n-1) ('cause if you catch some lions, you can always
release one of them). Hence, P(1) is true.

1.11 The Banachsche or iterative method

Let f be a contraction of the Sahara in it with contraction point x_0.
On this point we put the cage. By successive iteration W(n+1)= f(W(n)),
n=,1,2,..... (W(0)=Sahara) the Sahara will be contracted to X_0. In this
way the lion will get in the cage.

1.12 The Kalra Method

Make a list of the lion's whereabouts. Classify them into different fuzzy
sets. The lion will get confused and fall into your trap.

1.13 The Cartesian method

Take the origin as close as possible to the lion. Then perform rotation
operation again and again. Initially, the lion will feel dizzy. Finally it
will fall down.

1.14 The Inductive Method

Initial Condition: If you center a large cage on any one
grain of sand, and a lion is on or close to the grain of sand. then
he will be trapped by the cage. By close we mean within epsilon
grains of sand. Given a cage the size of 2 * (size of lion *
epsilon) it works.
First Hypothesis: Given the first grain of sand in the
desert, if the lion is standing on it you will trap him.

Proof: Given by the initial condition.

Induction Hypothesis: Assume that a lion is on a grain

of sand n, and is trappable. Now, for grain n+1 (assume all grains of sand
are ordered, inorder) n+1 is close to n, hence n is close to n+1. If the
lion is on grain n, and is trappable; then he is close to n+1, and by the
above condition, trappable. Hence, no matter where the lions are if you
drop a cage centered on a piece of sand you will catch a lion.

1.15 The Integro-Differential Method

Integrate the Sahara over its entire surface. The lion is now somewhere in
the result. Differentiate the result w.r.t the earth's rotation. The
resulting value is zero, and the lion is no more.

1.16 Group theory method
Note that "dog in lace" is an anagram of "caged lion".
Therefore, apply the appropriate permutation from S9 on a dog in lace to
obtain a caged lion. The matter of obtaining a dog in lace is left to
the reader.

2 Theoretical Physics Methods

2.1 The Dirac method

We assert that wild lions can ipso facto not be observed in the Sahara
desert. Therefore, if there are any lions at all in the desert, they
are tame. We leave catching a tame lion as an exercise to the reader.

2.2 The Schroedinger method

At every instant there is a non-zero probability of the lion being in
the cage. Sit and wait.

2.3 The Quantum Measurement Method

We assume that the sex of the lion is _ab initio_ indeterminate. The
wave function for the lion is hence a superposition of the gender
eigenstate for a lion and that for a lioness. We lay these eigenstates
out flat on the ground and orthogonal to each other. Since the (male)
lion has a distinctive mane, the measurement of sex can safely be made
from a distance, using binoculars. The lion then collapses into one of
the eigenstates, which is rolled up and placed inside the cage.

2.4 The nuclear physics method

Insert a tame lion into the cage and apply a Majorana exchange
operator [6] on it and a wild lion.

As a variant let us assume that we would like to catch (for argument's
sake) a male lion. We insert a tame female lion into the cage and
apply the Heisenberg exchange operator [7], exchanging spins.

2.5 The Newton gravitation method

Cage and lion attract each other with the gravitation force. We neglect
the friction. This way the lion will arive sooner or later in the cage.

2.6 The Newton third law method

Let the lion catch you (let's assume you remain alive here). For every
action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Therefore, you will have
captured the lion.

2.7 The Special relativistic method

One moves over the desert with light velocity. The relativistic length
contraction makes the lion flat as paper. One takes it, rolls it up and
puts a rubber band around the lion.

2.8 The Special relativistic method (method 2)

Run in the direction opposite to that of the lion. The relative velocity
makes the lion run faster and hence he feels heavier and gets tired.

2.9 The general relativistic method

All over the desert we distribute lion bait containing large amounts
of the companion star of Sirius. After enough of the bait has been
eaten we send a beam of light through the desert. This will curl
around the lion so it gets all confused and can be approached without
danger.

2.10 The Heisenberg method

Position and Velocity from a moving lion can not be measure at the same
time. As moving lions have no physical meaningfull position in the desert,
one can not catch them. The lion hunt can therefore be limited to
resting lions. The catching of a resting, not moving lion is left as
an exercise for the reader.

2.11 The Schroedinger cat method

1) Note that a lion is nothing else than some big cat.

2) Pour some contact poison that's lethal to lions over the Sahara.

3) Thereafter, either the lion is dead, or it isn't. So look at the Sahara
to reduce the lion's state to either dead or alive. If he's dead, you will
have no problems picking him and putting him in the cage. If it is not,
proceed back to step 2.

4) Since the probability (P) of this trick working is not 0, and since
[limit, on n going to infinite, of 1 minus P to the nth, is O] you've got
1OO% probability of some iteration of the process bringing up the result
you wanted.

There could just be a snag about the method : if the lion is dead,
obvioulsy he's not moving anymore, and his momentum is known to be nought,
so how are you going to measure where he is lying ?


2.appendix The Heisenberg constriction

You will disturb the lion when you observe it before capturing.
So keep your eyes closed.

3 Experimental Physics Methods

3.1 The thermodynamics method

We construct a semi-permeable membrane which lets everything but lions
pass through. This we drag across the desert.

3.2 The atomic fission method

We irradiate the desert with slow neutrons. The lion becomes
radioactive and starts to disintegrate. Once the disintegration
process is progressed far enough the lion will be unable to resist.

3.3 The magneto-optical method

We plant a large, lense shaped field with cat mint (nepeta cataria)
such that its axis is parallel to the direction of the horizontal
component of the earth's magnetic field. We put the cage in one of the
field's foci . Throughout the desert we distribute large amounts of
magnetized spinach (spinacia oleracea) which has, as everybody knows,
a high iron content. The spinach is eaten by vegetarian desert
inhabitants which in turn are eaten by the lions. Afterwards the
lions are oriented parallel to the earth's magnetic field and the
resulting lion beam is focussed on the cage by the cat mint lense.

[3] According to the Picard theorem (W. F. Osgood, Lehrbuch der
Funktionentheorie, vol 1 (1928), p 178) it is possible to catch every
lion except for at most one.

4.1 The search method

We assume that the lion is most likely to be found in the direction to
the north of the point where we are standing. Therefore the REAL
problem we have is that of speed, since we are only using a PC to
solve the problem.

4.2 The parallel search method.

By using parallelism we will be able to search in the direction to the
north much faster than earlier.

4.3 The Monte-Carlo method.

We pick a random number indexing the space we search. By excluding
neighboring points in the search, we can drastically reduce the number
of points we need to consider. The lion will according to probability
appear sooner or later.

4.4 The practical approach.

We see a rabbit very close to us. Since it is already dead, it is
particularly easy to catch. We therefore catch it and call it a lion.

4.5 The common language approach.

If only everyone used ADA/Common Lisp/Prolog, this problem would be
trivial to solve.

4.6 The standard approach.

We know what a Lion is from ISO 4711/X.123. Since CCITT have specified
a Lion to be a particular option of a cat we will have to wait for a
harmonized standard to appear. $20,000,000 have been funded for
initial investigations into this standard development.

4.7 Linear search.

Stand in the top left hand corner of the Sahara Desert. Take one step
east. Repeat until you have found the lion, or you reach the right
hand edge. If you reach the right hand edge, take one step
southwards, and proceed towards the left hand edge. When you finally
reach the lion, put it the cage. If the lion should happen to eat you
before you manage to get it in the cage, press the reset button, and
try again.

4.8 The Dijkstra approach:

The way the problem reached me was: catch a wild lion in the Sahara
Desert. Another way of stating the problem is:

Axiom 1: Sahara elem deserts
Axiom 2: Lion elem Sahara
Axiom 3: NOT(Lion elem cage)

We observe the following invariant:

P1: C(L) v not(C(L))

where C(L) means: the value of "L" is in the cage.

Establishing C initially is trivially accomplished with the statement

;cage := {}

Note 0:
This is easily implemented by opening the door to the cage and shaking
out any lions that happen to be there initially.
(End of note 0.)

The obvious program structure is then:

;cage:={}
;do NOT (C(L)) ->
;"approach lion under invariance of P1"
;if P(L) ->
;"insert lion in cage"
[] not P(L) ->
;skip
;fi
;od

where P(L) means: the value of L is within arm's reach.

Note 1:
Axiom 2 ensures that the loop terminates.
(End of note 1.)

Exercise 0:
Refine the step "Approach lion under invariance of P1".
(End of exercise 0.)

Note 2:
The program is robust in the sense that it will lead to
abortion if the value of L is "lioness".
(End of note 2.)

Remark 0: This may be a new sense of the word "robust" for you.
(End of remark 0.)

Note 3:

From observation we can see that the above program leads to the
desired goal. It goes without saying that we therefore do not have to
run it.
(End of note 3.)
(End of approach.)

4.9 The Linked List Method

Make a linked list of all objects in the desert. Then delete the pointers
on either side of the lion.(Make sure you are not AFTER the lion.)

4.10 The Automata Method

Use a Non-Deterministic Finite Automaton with epsilon moves from all states
to the final state, and no moves from the final state. The lion will soon
enter the final state and be trapped.

4.11 The Divide And Conqure Method (by recursion)

Divide the desert in half. Repeat the process until you have the lion, a
grain of sand, or some other object that cannot be divided without blood
shed. You have the lion. The order of this method = O(insane). (Where
sanity is anything reasonable.)

5 Other Methods

5.1 The Time-Cop Method

Use a time-machine and take the entire Sahara back a few years in time. The
lion is just a cub now, and all you need is a mouse-trap.

5.2 The Shakespeare Method

Hold the lion still for a moment (I don't care how you do it), and recite
Shakespeare`s Hamlet to it. The lion will change from 'To be' to
'Not-to-be'.

5.3 The Pentagon method.

Construct a safe, secure cage and leave the door open. Alternate massive
B-52 strikes across the Sahara desert with subtle propaganda campaigns
emphasizing the safety and security of your cage. When a lion enters the
cage, close and lock the door.

5.4 The supply-side method.

Distribute vast quantities of lion food and eliminate all threats to the
lion population. Put a cage in the desert and wait for the explosive
growth of the lion population to force a lion into the cage.

5.5 The Marxist-Leninist method.

Indoctrinate the gazelle population of the Sahara desert in dialectical
materialism. Disguise your cage as a re-education camp for capitalist
lions, and the gazelles will bring you all the lions you need.

__________________
Fod's page Son's place De Man's place
You are my opponent, but not my enemy, for your resistance gives me strength. Your will gives me courage. Your spirit ennobles me. And, although I aim to defeat you, should I succeed, I will not humiliate you, instead I will honour you..For without you, I am a lesser man.

Old Post 04-04-02 23:37 #
fodders is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Scientist
False Prophet


Posts: 663
Registered: 03-02



IMJack said:

Hey Man of Science, with your perfect rules of measure,
Can you improve this place with the data that you gather?


My personal view is that Science is only here for gathering information and not to concern itself with what to do with it. Let other people do that. I do not seek to improve only to understand.
But I admit a lot of Scientists would not share my view on Science on this piont.

Old Post 04-04-02 23:51 #
Scientist is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
IMJack
Web Radio Geek


Posts: 3704
Registered: 10-01


This seems to happen to me a lot. I try to make a point, and some intellectual-elitist asshole comes along and twists my point with a bunch of logical fallacies that look really cool on paper, but don't work against anyone with a Wisdom score higher than 1. Then I'm the one that looks like an idiot.

No offense, fods, it's a cute list. I'l have to read the reast when I get back from my lab.

__________________
Listen Up!!! http://radio.utdallas.edu/ Monday nights 10-midnight Central

Old Post 04-04-02 23:54 #
IMJack is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
fodders
OWNS YOU


Posts: 5810
Registered: 05-00


hey man of science with your perfect rules of measure can you improve this place with the data that you gather?
hey mother mercy can your loins bear fruit forever is your fecundity a trammel or a treasure

__________________
Fod's page Son's place De Man's place
You are my opponent, but not my enemy, for your resistance gives me strength. Your will gives me courage. Your spirit ennobles me. And, although I aim to defeat you, should I succeed, I will not humiliate you, instead I will honour you..For without you, I am a lesser man.

Old Post 04-05-02 12:49 #
fodders is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Scientist
False Prophet


Posts: 663
Registered: 03-02



fodders said:
hey man of science with your perfect rules of measure can you improve this place with the data that you gather?
hey mother mercy can your loins bear fruit forever is your fecundity a trammel or a treasure


I'll try once again:

Who's it from?

By the way don't you people know it is not nice to quote people without mentioning their name. You can get sued or shot. It also makes annoying people like me ask "Who's it from?"

Old Post 04-05-02 15:13 #
Scientist is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
IMJack
Web Radio Geek


Posts: 3704
Registered: 10-01


And I want to conquer the world,
Give all the idiots a new Bad Religion,
Put an end poverty, uncleanliness, and toil,
Put all equality and all of my decisions
With a quick wink of the eye, and a "God, you must be joking!"

fods: You listen to Bad Religion? I got a new respect for you, old man. :)

Scientist: You might like BR, you and their band lead/songwriter seem to be on the same wavelength. Gregg G.'s got his Ph.D in evolutionary studies.

__________________
Listen Up!!! http://radio.utdallas.edu/ Monday nights 10-midnight Central

Old Post 04-05-02 17:42 #
IMJack is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Scientist
False Prophet


Posts: 663
Registered: 03-02


Man of science gathers more data:

Well, I've heard of band, but I must admit I never heard any of their songs. I'll try downloading some. Can you give me any good names?

Thanks.

Old Post 04-07-02 20:08 #
Scientist is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Rellik
Knock Knock
Who's there?


Posts: 1251
Registered: 01-01


Holy shit man, I'm listening to the "No Control" album right now! Fuck, that's gotta be some kind of sign....

So all this crap about anarchy and working government. I believe that government will only work when there is only one person left and he declares himself president. Other than that and humans are just to greedy, too selfish, and too coniving(sp?) to ever live together in some peaceful society.

__________________
Discharge deathmatch level reviews
FreeDM Deathmatch Iwad Project
D.M.N. DeathMatch News. Your source for Multiplayer DOOM news.

Old Post 04-12-02 05:57 #
Rellik is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Summoner
Green Marine


Posts: 35
Registered: 04-02



Scientist said:
...Yes, Science seeks 100% truth. The thing is HOW they claim to find it:

Science admits that you cannot trully know something is CORRECT (like all swans being white). But you can know if something is INCORRECT (a blue swan proofs not all swans are white).
If we know all that is incorrect, what remains is all that is correct.
So by increasing the quantity of all the things we know are incorrect, we're getting closer to pure correct statements. This is the way science works...



I noticed something that reminded me of a chat I had with some of my intellectual friends about robots.They might have a serious error and go "Crush, Kill, Destroy!" on us of there is a fact proven wrong like that... thats why I think that robots may need a sattalite link to a huge database so they can keep learning... very expensive... yet technology will make portable memory packs holding billions of gigabytes.Which answers a question many people ask me: "Whats Area 51 for?" "Technology." I would answer.
Start a new thread if you want to talk about things like robots with me.

Last edited by Summoner on 04-27-02 at 09:36

Old Post 04-27-02 08:47 #
Summoner is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
nxn
meephead


Posts: 5398
Registered: 09-01


if anarchy was to be set in motion you'd have to give me one full month's notice so I could load up on guns.

__________________
What once was moose is now all meep.

Old Post 04-28-02 08:41 #
nxn is offline Profile || Blog || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Executor667
Loser


Posts: 9
Registered: 03-02



fodders said:
Such is the concept of anarchy, only it is a hundred times more trusting that Communism. Anarchy places all faith in people, without the benefit of a police force. Let us take an example:

Mr. and Mrs. Farmer lead a bucolic life. They live in harmony with the land, growing and storing food in the warm months and living off their stash in the winter. One winter, their neighbors, the Sapiens family, finds out that it does not have any food. Seeing no other chance at survival, they kill the Farmers. Since there is no police force, there was no fear of punishment for the Sapiens. Someone had what they wanted, and they took it.

It would only become worse from this point. Once the entire population learned that there wold be nobody to punish them for wrongdoings, the world would go to hell. Chaos, yes.
And it is almost certainly a chaos in which those high-school vandals would not survive. It would be a Darwinian system all over again. Survival of the fittest. Or, put more bluntly, survival of the meanest. Those kids who promote anarchy would be dead within a month, with no cars, no TV, no microwaves. The power would certainly not work. What would keep people working at a power station when they could just take what they wanted?...



EXACTLY! Humans are selfish, cutthroat, greedy arseholes if there is no government to keep them in line. This basic tendency of humans is why Cardinal Bernard Law is covering up the church pedophilia that is occurring in his archdiocese. He is a greedy pig who loves his red hat so much that his obsession with power (the cardinals elect a new pope when the old pontiff dies, and they have a huge amount of power over the church members in there archdioceses) has overwhelmed his conscience. If you are a cardinal, you don't want bad publicity. And even though Cardinal Law has plenty, he won't resign. He refuses to give up the funny red hat that sits atop his head. What about the Pope? Can't he just excommunicate him? Yes, but the Pope doesn't care, and it would cause even more bad publicity for the Catholic Church because the press would try to uncover more dirty little secrets and spew out whistle-blowing scandal stories like there's no tomorrow. It's much safer to mumble a few lines of rhetoric and forget about the pedophilia.

Old Post 05-16-02 22:34 #
Executor667 is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
fodders
OWNS YOU


Posts: 5810
Registered: 05-00


What is so mind numbing is the fact that Law, when questioned in court last week about it all, although he didn't lie, per se, he said "HE couldn't remember". Now while I can accept that from a layman, I cannot accept it from a Priest, he either remembers or not, and of course he remembers, so is in fact lying, a SIN

__________________
Fod's page Son's place De Man's place
You are my opponent, but not my enemy, for your resistance gives me strength. Your will gives me courage. Your spirit ennobles me. And, although I aim to defeat you, should I succeed, I will not humiliate you, instead I will honour you..For without you, I am a lesser man.

Last edited by fodders on 05-16-02 at 22:54

Old Post 05-16-02 22:45 #
fodders is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Scientist
False Prophet


Posts: 663
Registered: 03-02



Summoner said:

[...]
Start a new thread if you want to talk about things like robots with me.


Start your own new threads! ;)

Old Post 05-17-02 00:05 #
Scientist is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Wobbo
Of course, I could be wrong


Posts: 1253
Registered: 05-01


I apologizing for starting this idiotic and pointless thread. If it werent for the excellent discussions that came up within it, i would have tried to delete it.

XIAN YOU IDIOT. OF COURSE AND ANARCHIST WOULD BE OPPOSED TO SLAVERY, THE RELATION SHIP FROM MASTER TO SLAVE IS THE BEST EXAMPLE OF "ARCHY" IN THE WORLD. Duhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Old Post 05-29-02 22:04 #
Wobbo is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
All times are GMT. The time now is 00:02. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (2): « 1 [2]  
Doomworld Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.5 Doomworld Forums > Misc. > Everything Else > Mind bending question.... paradox

Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to this Thread

 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are OFF
[IMG] code is ON
 

< Contact Us - Doomworld >

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.5
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.