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Rambosee
Rambodo

Posts: 287
Registered: 01-11

Steam is a great program, and I do not understand why people don't like it. I see it as a very good gaming program, and it gives me everything I ask for. All I ask for is easy access to games, easy to buy games from store, and talking to friends while playing.

I have bought from Steam store before. I have bought Left 4 Dead 2, Borderlands GOTY, Fallout New Vegas, Half Life 2, and Haunted Hells Reach. I have also played AVA and TF2 from their f2p section. I have never experienced any problems with the installations or gameplay.

So, why do people hate on Steam?

11-19-11 19:45 #

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Justince
Mini-Member

Posts: 91
Registered: 02-11

The same reason anyone hates anything. People aren't all the same.

11-19-11 19:51 #

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Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!

Posts: 7042
Registered: 07-07

A user license that clearly states that access to the games you buy is a service that can be suspended at any time.

A cheat prevention system that will ban you and block your games if you use certain game mods even without the intent of cheating.

A need to run the Steam client concurrently to the game.

The impossibility to use older versions.

Updates forced unless specifically disabled. Steam client updates impossible to disable.

The installer will default to downloading games from the Internet even if you have bought it retail and it would be a lot faster to get it from the DVD (especially if you don't have broadband...), unless you quit Steam and restart it with command-line options (not the most user-friendly thing ever).

People having no use at all for the extra features Steam provides ("achievements", chat, cloud storage, stat gathering, etc.).

I don't hate Steam. I dislike it for ideological reasons. I tolerate it for practical reasons. I only start it if I want to play a game I have on Steam that can't be played otherwise; and I only run it in online mode when downloading stuff; I always play with it in offline mode. Then close the Steam client once I've finished playing.

11-19-11 20:00 #

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Rambosee
Rambodo

Posts: 287
Registered: 01-11

A user license that clearly states that access to the games you buy is a service that can be suspended at any time.

Well, they won't suspend it just because they feel like it. They would probably have a good reason to do that.

A cheat prevention system that will ban you and block your games if you use certain game mods even without the intent of cheating.

Well, you got me there. But it's only for certain ones, and there are few certain ones that I know of, because I don't often hear stories about this happening. Maybe you have a link to this issue that you can share?

A need to run the Steam client concurrently to the game.

What's the problem with that?

The impossibility to use older versions.

Why would you want to use older versions?

Updates forced unless specifically disabled. Steam client updates impossible to disable.

Yet again, what is the problem with updates?

The installer will default to downloading games from the Internet even if you have bought it retail and it would be a lot faster to get it from the DVD (especially if you don't have broadband...), unless you quit Steam and restart it with command-line options (not the most user-friendly thing ever).

That's a good, valid point.

People having no use at all for the extra features Steam provides ("achievements", chat, cloud storage, stat gathering, etc.).

Well, you never know. You might not like these features but other people might want them. You have a respectable point.

11-19-11 20:13 #

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Maes
I like big butts!

Posts: 8662
Registered: 07-06

Maybe because most people don't own Steam stocks or don't receive "be a good shill" paychecks at the end of the month? Otherwise who'd even bother posting walls of text trying to make black appear as white for nothing?

Hey, just trying to be all "pro-free market and pro-enterprise" here ;-)

11-19-11 20:26 #

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Blzut3
Junior Member

Posts: 210
Registered: 06-04

Rambosee said:

Well, they won't suspend it just because they feel like it. They would probably have a good reason to do that.

Going out of business is a good reason by the way! (It may seem unlikely at the moment, but it can happen.)

Rambosee said:

Yet again, what is the problem with updates?

Ignoring the fact that some times the updates add features which can render the game unplayable on previously capable machines (it has apparently happened), I've had a few 8GB TF2 updates which are slow even on broadband.

For the record, I only have a steam account to collect freebies. I also dislike buying stuff I can't hold or resell.

11-19-11 20:32 #

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Csonicgo
This post is probably useless

Posts: 3960
Registered: 03-04

Oh boy, another thread that will devolve into a series of "What ifs" that companies just never consider when providing such a service. it's as if I can predict threads around here.

11-19-11 20:51 #

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Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!

Posts: 7042
Registered: 07-07

Rambosee said:
Well, they won't suspend it just because they feel like it. They would probably have a good reason to do that.

Oh, I'm pretty sure this is mostly a lawyerly ass-covering thing so they don't get sued by angry gamers if their servers blow up or something. I don't imagine they're going to one day out of the blue ban everybody out of mean-spirited spite.

But many people don't like the lack of guarantee this represents for them.

Rambosee said:
Well, you got me there. But it's only for certain ones, and there are few certain ones that I know of, because I don't often hear stories about this happening. Maybe you have a link to this issue that you can share?

Lookie here

Rambosee said:
What's the problem with that?

It needlessly takes up RAM and CPU resources. Sure, it's not a lot; but it's some.

It's kinda like all these "<whatever> toolbars". You don't need what they do, you don't use them directly, they waste resources, but you find out that you have to keep one installed because some app actually requires it? Very annoying.

Rambosee said:
Why would you want to use older versions?

Why not?
You liked a game better before <whatever> was nerfed?
You don't like the changes they made in level <whatever>?
The updated engine takes up too much resources for your aging computer?
You are curious?

Rambosee said:
Yet again, what is the problem with updates?

They take a while to download; and most of the times you'll find out it's about some compatibility with a game you don't have.

Rambosee said:
Well, you never know. You might not like these features but other people might want them. You have a respectable point.

Of course other people want them! But that's beside the point. You wanted reasons why people dislike Steam. I gave you a list of reasons. Most of these are also reasons why people like Steam:
- Automatic updates because they like having the very latest version without having to search, download, and setup patches themselve
- Steam client running because they use it as a launcher for their games (the reason why it's possible to add non-Steam games to the library)
- An ruthless anti-cheat system that will deter many griefers and cheaters
etc.

Last edited by Gez on 11-19-11 at 21:16

11-19-11 21:11 #

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Sig-ma
Junior Member

Posts: 145
Registered: 08-11

Csonicgo said:Oh boy, another thread that will devolve into a series of "What ifs" that companies just never consider when providing such a service. it's as if I can predict threads around here.

I know, right? I've said the bulk of what I believe I want to say revolving around this matter and people are probably becoming sick of my posts (and the topic in general) but I just want to add this...

Every interview, article or video I've ever seen with Gabe Newell showed him to be a really stand-up guy, who passionately cared about what he is doing. He's an avid video game player, makes fun of himself all of the time and seems really down-to-earth. He speaks directly to Valve fans all of the time and even during that L4D2 fiasco, he flew to Australia to basically run damage control / PR. He is certainly not your average businessman.

I can readily imagine the guys at Valve sitting around one day discussing how much publishers like Activision and Electronic Arts sucked and how they were fucking developers over, how piracy was a growing and unfortunate trend and reading thread after thread after thread of people bitching nonstop about twats cheating and hacking all over the place in Counter-Strike.

Bam! Steam was born. It isn't perfect and a lot of people have legitimate complaints but I really don't think Steam is your typical "trying to marginalize and fuck over the consumers and developers" -esque business strategy.

11-19-11 21:23 #

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Phml
Forum Staple

Posts: 2035
Registered: 06-09

I think a better question would be, why the love on Steam. It's a piece of software, not whatever reincarnated deity you seem to think it is. I think the "hate" you see is 50% utter astonishment from people like me who can't fathom the amount of passion you can have for some 0s and 1s.

Gabe Newell seems like a genuinely great guy. That's completely irrelevant to my experience as a consumer using a product from his company. Henry Ford was a dick. That didn't make Fords bad cars.

It's somewhat sad that today's generation of gamers are getting so used to getting the stick rather than the carrot that they go and worship whoever only gives them a slap in the face rather than a solid beating. Here's the two points that keep being missed: not getting slapped in the face at all is still a better deal. Having terrible things as the standard doesn't make merely bad things good.

11-19-11 21:47 #

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Aliotroph?
postCount++

Posts: 1809
Registered: 03-02

Steam is a pain in the ass. It still uses fixed-size fonts for the entire interface. Half of us can't even read the chat messages in that thing. Despite that, I still use Steam. I do not use Macintosh for exactly that reason, though. I was hoping Jobs would need reading glasses before he died.

The nice thing about Steam is since I do have broadband I don't have to fiddle with game CDs. The bad things are all listed here already, but I should also add the lack of granular control over where my games install.

11-19-11 22:11 #

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Sig-ma
Junior Member

Posts: 145
Registered: 08-11

Phml said:I think a better question would be, why the love on Steam.

Yes, being passionate about or liking software is unwarranted. So much so, in fact, that we're discussing this on a website dedicated to a piece of software almost two decades old.

Aliotroph? said:Steam is a pain in the ass. It still uses fixed-size fonts for the entire interface. Half of us can't even read the chat messages in that thing.

This is an understandable issue you specifically and I'm sure some other people have. I have a deaf friend who loves Steam and Valve however. Valve has been one of the industry pioneers in making their games more accessible for hearing-impaired individuals.

11-19-11 22:16 #

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fraggle
Super Moderator

Posts: 6000
Registered: 07-00

Systems like Steam are breaking new grounds for games sales. There are some legitimate complaints against it. I'm slightly uncomfortable about the fact that I could conceivably be arbitrarily locked out of my games at any time. The same is also true of other media like ebook readers. I suspect in a few years from now we'll see a wave of government legislation to regulate stuff that is sold in this way.

11-19-11 22:32 #

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Captain Red
Pants

Posts: 4878
Registered: 06-01

I guess it's better then some of the DRM out there and it's good for getting older or indie games, but I can't see why people LOVE it. Am I the only one who finds it kind of unstable at times?

11-19-11 22:59 #

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Deeforce
Member

Posts: 630
Registered: 04-06

I don't like steam, because you need the internet to run singleplayer games like Half Life 2 and also you need the internet for the installation of videogames when buying steam games. Furthermore, the internet and the videogames just don't fit together for me, because there are too many hackers and cheaters on the internet. I buy as less internet games as possible.

11-19-11 23:10 #

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Membrain
Junior Member

Posts: 209
Registered: 09-10

There's some legitimate reasons to dislike Steam, as has been said before, and I would really prefer it if their offline mode was a bit more robust. However, it's rather convenient, and I have been able to play multiplayer LAN games using just my own Steam account. Granted, this was in STALKER, which is not actually -using- Steamworks or what-have-you, but I still bought the game on Steam, installed it on both my own and my girlfriend's computer, and played multiplayer games with her. Hell, without actually modifying the software with a crack, most other forms of DRM, including the timed-tested "Please insert Disc 1 and try again", would not allow for this.

It's DRM, and it has some issues still, but it's a lesser of many evils. Also, the chat overlay lets me enjoy fullscreen games and still keep in contact with my friends as I play. It's not the second coming, or even the very best solution to the issue of DRM/piracy, but it does as little as possible to get in the way of me playing games while affording some additional features that I find very useful.

11-20-11 00:37 #

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Craigs
The only idiot here besides Csonicgo

Posts: 2438
Registered: 11-05

fraggle said:
Systems like Steam are breaking new grounds for games sales. There are some legitimate complaints against it. I'm slightly uncomfortable about the fact that I could conceivably be arbitrarily locked out of my games at any time. The same is also true of other media like ebook readers. I suspect in a few years from now we'll see a wave of government legislation to regulate stuff that is sold in this way.

The last time I heard of someone getting locked out of his account was about a year ago on /v/ when a guy was bragging about how he got his account reopened after it was closed for joining a match in L4D2 that a valve employee was playing in, then repeatedly killing all the other players while screaming over his mic nonstop.

11-20-11 01:17 #

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I'myourtarget
Junior Member

Posts: 167
Registered: 04-11

I think an entirely better question is "Why the entirely new thread on a topic that has been discussed in detail time and time again?" Seriously, the thread that used to be about how they got hacked is good enough. Move on.

11-20-11 01:33 #

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Shaikoten
Senior Member

Posts: 1044
Registered: 05-04

The one thing none of you have brought up thus far is FRIENDS. Seriously, if you're a multiplayer, PC gamer who wants to play with friends, there is no easier way to accomplish this than through steam. Game invites to let you join their server through one simple click. Leaderboards. Chat for all of your PC gaming friends, including VOIP, etc, etc.

And then non-social reasons: Free, instant DLC (and updates, and bug fixes) for Valve games when console platforms universally make you pay. A system to instantly download your entire library of games once you switch computers. The ability to legitimately buy both indie and AAA titles at extreme discounts, at or exceeding 75% off.

Listen, I've been doing the online gaming thing for as long as it's existed now. To me, Steam is a step in the right direction that simplifies and unifies my gaming life over multiple communities and lets me hook up with my friends to play what I want, when I want to, without the fuss of wrangling everyone together through IRC or phone calls or AIM or ICQ or carrier pigeon.

11-20-11 06:38 #

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PRIMEVAL
Senior Member

Posts: 1398
Registered: 03-09

I think Bully Ray says it best with, "Because I can."

That or Scott Steiner's, "Why does the sun rise!? Why does the moon go down at night!?"

11-20-11 07:36 #

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DoomUK
Forum Staple

Posts: 2228
Registered: 04-04

I don't hate Steam, but I don't love it either.

I don't like the idea of buying a physical copy of a game and then being forced to either run it via Steam or not at all. I'm a believer in giving people options and I think the Steam installation should be an optional choice for those that want to use it. I don't understand how Valve has this sort of authority over other game publishers which have nothing to do with them.

Not that I've ever refused to buy a game on those grounds, but I use Steam because I have to use it and I occasionally make use of the chat function because it's there.

11-20-11 08:57 #

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Maes
I like big butts!

Posts: 8662
Registered: 07-06

Most arguments in favour of Steam seem to boil down to "well...it's not THAT bad" or "you eventually get used to it".

It's really a plain old case of post-purchase rationalization, such as the one you often see in people who got involved at the (low levels) of MLM, been victims of scams or other cult-like marketing schemes (e.g. SBI 'web marketing').

It's always impressive how those who rank relatively low in those schemes (and thus are the primary cash cows to be milked) are also the most vociferous and vicious when it comes to "defend" their situation, while those higher-up tend to be more discreet.

11-20-11 14:15 #

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Shaikoten
Senior Member

Posts: 1044
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Most arguments against steam come from people who like single player games and don't have a lick of experience when it comes to playing a modern multiplayer game. If you want to go back to the days of calling up your buddy to tell him your IP for a direct connection, while the two of you fiddle with patches for a few hours, that's fine, but the rest of us will be in the 21st century.

I've purchased a few of the various indie bundles that offer their games in a variety of ways: standalone .exes absent DRM, Desura, and of course Steam. I grumble and moan when there's no Steam option (although it usually follows very quickly) because the platform is so inclusive of everything I do when gaming.

I know, Steam sucks for people with internet caps or slow connection speeds. I feel for you of course. When Steam first came out I had to struggle with downloading CS:S and HL2 on dialup. But that doesn't mean it isn't fantastic for those of us with reliable connections. I download and install most games faster than it would take for me to drive to the store, which would cost me gas, probably not have the game I was looking for, and if it did I'd probably pay more than I would if it were on Steam. But those of you with crappy infrastructure in your country are probably best served buying pirate copies from shady street vendors.

To be spiteful and troll Maes:

It's always impressive how those whose countries rank relatively low economically (and thus are not the target consumer demographic of the company) are also the most vociferous and vicious when it comes to "defend" their situation, while those higher-up tend to be more discreet.

11-20-11 15:18 #

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hex11
Senior Member

Posts: 1481
Registered: 09-09

Don't you find it odd that if someone happens to not approve of, or wish to use something, they are labelled as a "hater"? Does this not immediately establish a great rift, with two camps on either side, who may never see eye-to-eye? What is the point of "discussion" then, under these circumstances.

11-20-11 15:45 #

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Mr. T
Senior Member

Posts: 1270
Registered: 12-03

I dunno if I agree with that post Shaikoten. I have retardedly fast internet (faster than yours) and plenty of ca�h to burn, but dislike Steam for a number of reasons.

The main one is that the app itself is and always has been a clunky, slow POS even on good hardware. The fact that it is middleware that you are forced to open is just icing on the cake.

FWIW no one in my immediate circle of friends jams PC games, so I can't really comment on the social integration, cuz I don't play games with friends. If that works for you then cool.

Auto-updates are kinda lame IMO. What if something in the patch makes the game stop working on your computer? What if the lauded update sux? Get used to it because they're not changing it back? That is BS. Everyone (not just limited to games) does that these days, so I guess it's not fair to take points off for it.

DRM sux bla bla repeating the same point bla bla.

To be honest I wish that there was a way to get around all the Steam cruft and just be able to play fkn games. I don't give a shit about your sale, achievements are for lil kids whose moms didn't hug them enough, where is the server browser, hats hats hats AHHHhhHHhH GTFO!!!

11-20-11 16:07 #

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Maes
I like big butts!

Posts: 8662
Registered: 07-06

Shaikoten said:
If you want to go back to the days of calling up your buddy to tell him your IP for a direct connection, while the two of you fiddle with patches for a few hours, that's fine, but the rest of us will be in the 21st century.

This is actually a valid point for those games that don't have their own multi-player lobbies (I know from experience that some games come with what you said, or at most some unmaintained "lobby" app that none uses). Using steam may guarantee -up to a point- that no matter how shit-lazy the devs are, the game will have a proper multiplayer lobby. But such titles tend to find their way to the bargain bin pretty quickly anyway and their MP community, if any, will be 4 cats all in all, so it's a moot point.

Now, if Steam wants to steal the thunder from services like Battle-net, XFire etc. that's OK, but there's no reason to tie that to actual sales and single player DRM.

Shaikoten said:
To be spiteful and troll Maes:

I had the same opinion even when things were going better, and I'd probably have the same exact opinion even if a magic iMac fairy came down, made me a honorary US citizen and gave me $1000000 tax-free so STFU :-p

11-20-11 16:35 #

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Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!

Posts: 7042
Registered: 07-07

Maes said:
I had the same opinion even when things were going better, and I'd probably have the same exact opinion even if a magic iMac fairy came down, made me a honorary US citizen and gave me $1000000 tax-free so STFU :-p

You'd just need to use that money to buy a boat or two if you want it tax-free.

11-20-11 17:01 #

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Sig-ma
Junior Member

Posts: 145
Registered: 08-11

hex11 said:...who may never see eye-to-eye? What is the point of "discussion" then, under these circumstances.

I don't find it odd at all. What is the point of any discussion?

What I don't understand is why people complain about Steam updates? Why would they specifically not want their Steam client updated? The typical Steam update is small (like, 5-10 MB). Surely, even someone on dial-up can handle that. For game updates, you can't really call them 'forced' considering you may disable them. Believe it or not, your average person would like their games to be updated and running properly, not the other way around. I've never experienced an update breaking any of my games and I have a rather large game library.

I certainly don't find Steam slow and clunky either. The only time I'm waiting for it is when I launch it and log-in, with a wait time comparable to any other service or application that expects the same.

Regarding the issue of the EULA and being banned, welcome to software! Again, this website works the same way. I'm not sure why people wouldn't expect their account to be closed or be banned from servers if they're breaking the EULA (generally, hacking or cheating various games or the software).

11-20-11 17:23 #

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Mogul
Senior Member

Posts: 1578
Registered: 01-01

The convenience of Steam outweighs the danger of "oh shit, they might turn off my service for some reason, some day." Also, there is an offline mode. Use it if it bothers you to be online.

11-20-11 17:25 #

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Belial
Senior Member

Posts: 1803
Registered: 09-05

Sig-ma said:
For game updates, you can't really call them 'forced' considering you may disable them. Believe it or not, your average person would like their games to be updated and running properly, not the other way around. I've never experienced an update breaking any of my games and I have a rather large game library.

Orange Box HL2 is broken.

I like my DXHR with straferunning thank you.

So there.

11-20-11 17:46 #

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Doomworld Forums > Misc. > Everything Else > Why the hate on Steam?

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