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Quast
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DoomUK said:
Never heard of a shoe manufacturer letting you wear a pair of shoes for a few weeks to see how they work, or giving you one shoe as a trial before you commit yourself to buying the other one.

Which was my point.


The point is you shouldn't HAVE to spend your money not knowing whether you'll truly like it or not. Not with a game anyway.


What makes video games so damn special in this regard?

Old Post 11-22-11 12:24 #
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E.J.
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GoatLord said:
I think it's also hard to feel remorse for stealing when say, you are a media person who can't afford the thousands of dollars necessary to legally acquire the Adobe suite, music software and plug-ins, 3-D modeling software and rendering programs, etc. We feel entitled to "steal" those things because they're just too damn expensive.


I know this subject has been beaten to death here, but sharing binary information that can be read by certain programs as sound, video, or interactive media of some sort isn't 'theft'. At best it's 'copyright infringement', with the laws surrounding it in a very antiquated state of reflecting physical ownership of media.


DoomUK said:

The point is you shouldn't HAVE to spend your money not knowing whether you'll truly like it or not. Not with a game anyway.



Wouldn't that be like expecting to enjoy every movie you go into the theater to watch?

Sometimes you just take a gamble, and companies have the right to market their movies to be profitable regardless of whether you think think it's a pile of dung.

BTW - If Adobe's suite, or any other software, is too expensive for someones taste, the proper thing to do would be to boycott it, and not pirate it. If you feel compelled enough to use their suite regardless, then you nullify your excuse for not buying it.

Old Post 11-22-11 12:33 #
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Vordakk
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DoomUK said:

Never heard of a shoe manufacturer letting you wear a pair of shoes for a few weeks to see how they work, or giving you one shoe as a trial before you commit yourself to buying the other one.



You can try on shoes in the store before you buy them. Coupled with online reviews and learning about your own foot(i.e. pronation or supination, medical issues, etc.), you should be able to make a pretty informed decision about footwear.


DoomUK said:

The point is you shouldn't HAVE to spend your money not knowing whether you'll truly like it or not. Not with a game anyway.



Aren't there like a zillion printed and online game reviewers, some even making use of video reviews? Smart consumers do their homework before opening their wallet.

Old Post 11-22-11 12:35 #
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hex11
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"Easier" is not the same as "100% possible".

And you have the entire Internet available to find information about any game you're considering. If there is no real demo, you can talk to people who played it. Presumably that's one of the features that people like about Steam (but anyway, there's always been web forums and such). There are youtube channels that post actual gameplay videos, etc. These are all resources that weren't available to me in the 80's. Hence, why I say it's easier...

And yeah, you can warez it too, and play it that way. That option wasn't always available back in the day, unless you happened to have a modem and "elite access" to a pirate board or a very well-connected group of friends.

For me this is all hypothetical anyway. I actually have zero interest in playing new games that aren't FOSS. Part of that is because they only get released for a small handful of OS, in binary format, and I don't like being bound to any specific platform. Today I use OpenBSD, next year... who knows? The other thing is, I've already got enough games that I'll never have time to finish them all.

Old Post 11-22-11 12:36 #
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DoomUK
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Well duh, do your homework before purchasing

As much as I enjoy talking to people about games, hearing people's opinions about games, and reading and watching reviews on games, it's my opinion and the amount of enjoyment I get out of a said game which matters the most. There are plenty of games which are highly praised which I didn't care for having played them, and visa versa. It's all valuable foresight but ultimately eclipsed by how much I or you actually enjoy playing it.

The same applies to movies and books and music. Professional movie critics who might praise or berate a particular film generally have some formal academic background which makes their opinion more robust and articulate than some random Joe, but an opinion it still is and I'm entitled to think the exact opposite of what they think having watched it. So no, I don't have to drop my cash on something just because someone says it's good*.

*I still do so, anyway, because like most people I think life is too short to constantly avoid buying things just because they might suck or break. I'm just saying, in principle you can never just go off the opinions of others. Unless it's something like an electric drill which either works well or doesn't.

Old Post 11-22-11 13:01 #
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Enjay
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GoatLord said:
I think it's also hard to feel remorse for stealing when say, you are a media person who can't afford the thousands of dollars necessary to legally acquire the Adobe suite, music software and plug-ins, 3-D modeling software and rendering programs, etc. We feel entitled to "steal" those things because they're just too damn expensive.

I'm not sure how far that works. I would love a Ferrari. They are too damned expensive. I don't feel entitled to steal one.

Old Post 11-22-11 20:33 #
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Mr. T
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RE: the shoes and fast car

Imagine you have a machine that can make you a perfect copy of the Ferrari in a couple of hours for free, leaving the original in perfectly the same state.

The dealer will call you a thief because you aren't paying the arbitrary, extravagant price he set, even though he lost nothing. Not even a sale - without your machine, you would never have considered spending that much money on a car anyway.

How is that stealing?!

Old Post 11-22-11 21:07 #
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_bruce_
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The internet saved me a lot of money that I would have spent on lame shit.
Only catch - if you like it, buy it!

Old Post 11-22-11 21:38 #
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Aliotroph?
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People always bring up that notion of piracy being the cause of derivative crap. This is also patent nonsense. People with money are a conservative bunch when developing products and always have been. This is why there are a million movies from the 50s about stupid monsters invading small towns, why most of Mozart's music sounds the same, why a lot of late-18th century music sounds like Mozart, why there are movies like Starcrash, etc.

Old Post 11-22-11 21:38 #
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myk
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As some have pointed out, calling it "stealing" is like calling an insult or a punch "murder".


GoatLord said:
When you're at a store, you should, if you have positive morals, feel bad about taking things without paying for them, especially expensive things.
Perhaps, but do you feel guilty when you avoid paying a highwayman's toll for "helping you use the road safely"?

Old Post 11-24-11 03:01 #
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GoatLord
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myk said:
As some have pointed out, calling it "stealing" is like calling an insult or a punch "murder".

Perhaps, but do you feel guilty when you avoid paying a highwayman's toll for "helping you use the road safely"?



I can't really answer that because I do not have a driver's license.

Old Post 11-25-11 21:31 #
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Maes
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GoatLord said:
I can't really answer that because I do not have a driver's license.


Let me guess... you have no idea what a highwayman is, right?

Old Post 11-25-11 22:08 #
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GreyGhost
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A toll booth operator? :D

Old Post 11-25-11 23:21 #
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Grazza
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This is a highwayman:

http://nicolakirk.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/25-02-2010-hes-a-dandy-highway-man.jpg

Old Post 11-25-11 23:34 #
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Maes
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Fo' shame, there's even a famous Johnny Cash about one!

Old Post 11-26-11 00:07 #
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GreyGhost
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Grazza said:
This is a highwayman:

http://nicolakirk.files.wordpress.c...highway-man.jpg

Looks more like the lead singer of a post-punk band.

Found it

Old Post 11-26-11 00:15 #
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GoatLord
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Maes said:


Let me guess... you have no idea what a highwayman is, right?



Correct.

Old Post 11-26-11 16:19 #
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yellowmadness54
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Meh, I dont find downloading music stealing. Non of the profit of buying downloadable music goes to the artist. So I download the music, and often buy the actual CD later.


EDIT: Isn't a highwayman pretty much a bandit?

Old Post 11-27-11 00:18 #
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Maes
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Perhaps related?



I wonder how many of those born after 1990 will "get" it, though...



C30 C60 C90 Go
C30 C60 C90 Go
C30 C60 C90 Go
C30 C60
C30 C60 C90 Go
30 60 90 Go

It used to break my heart when I went in your shop
and you said my records were out of stock
so I don't buy records in your shop
now I tape them all, 'cause I'm Top of the Pops!

Yeah!

Now I got a new way to move
it's shiny and black and don't need a groove
now I don't need no album rack
I carry my collection over my back

C30 C60 C90 Go
off the radio I get a constant flow
hit it, pause it, record it and play
turn it, rewind, and rub it away

Policeman stopped me in my tracks
said "Hey you, you can't tape that
you're under arrest 'cause it's illegal"
So I shoved him off and blew his whistle
I'm a pirate and I keep my loot
So I blew him out with my bazooka

C30 C60 C90 Go
off the radio I get a constant flow
hit it, pause it, record it and play
turn it, rewind, and rub it away



The records labels never managed to mount a decent case against home taping, so... ;-)

Old Post 11-27-11 00:19 #
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fraggle
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Violation of copyright is not the same as either robbery, or murder on the high seas.

Old Post 11-27-11 02:42 #
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GreyGhost
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Some would argue it's worse, by forcing countless thousands of shareholders to drink a cheaper brand of chardonnay. :)

Old Post 11-27-11 03:30 #
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hex11
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Let them drink rum!

Old Post 11-27-11 04:01 #
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Technician
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Let 'em drink from my ass-crack.

Old Post 11-27-11 05:08 #
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DoomUK
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yellowmadness54 said:
EDIT: Isn't a highwayman pretty much a bandit?

Yes, except a highwayman's nefarious actions were centred around robbing travellers on the highway. That's why he called a highwayman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highwayman

Old Post 11-27-11 09:01 #
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deathbringer
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uhhhhhhhhhhh

*scrolls through thread looking for the opinions of the reds to laugh at*

Yeah but while Piracy may not be 'hurting the big corporations' it will hurt the people who work in videogame shops, IE millions of people just like you. But then again Steam and it's ilk will do the same thing so yeah.

Old Post 11-27-11 12:34 #
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WildWeasel
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I do pirate software. But I don't necessarily feel no remorse about it - I believe that "A Game Worth Playing is a Game Worth Buying" (to quote the old Fairlight cracktros), so if I am legitimately enjoying a game that I've acquired through less-than-legal means, then by all means, I'll go buy a copy as soon as I'm able. The devs deserve my support if I play and enjoy their game for long enough.

Old Post 11-27-11 20:12 #
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Maes
I like big butts!


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The mentality behind many of the posts here could be interpreted as a form of proletarian expropriation. Expect to see a lot of it with the ongoing crisis, and not only in immaterial goods....

Old Post 11-28-11 11:06 #
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