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Maes
I like big butts!

Posts: 8662
Registered: 07-06

eargosedown said:
so why exactly would they suddenly watch their language?

They do because they know that little bastard snitches are everywhere, at least those experienced enough to have done hard time or risked arrest.

eargosedown said:
What're they going to do? Get fired? Come on now, boss wouldn't want to get counter-sued for defamation.

No matter what the boss believes, if a society gets so twitchy and nervous that they react at the first hint of whatever, it ends up like...oh nm you're from the USA, home of the "preemptive strike" doctrine.

eargosedown said:
How would he even find out? A customer going to snitch about being called a big lipped n***** when they come to purchase something and encounter such a wonderful employee?

That's a very different situation: a customer reporting an actual fact, not a dogooder reporting what he believes will become a fact, maybe, eventually. See comment above about being too twitchy.

eargosedown said:
What a horrible world it must be out there, with all these people having common respect between one another.

Having mutual respect is wonderful. Having the opportunity to ruin people just on the grounds of hearsay and no tangible reason is not.

eargosedown said:
If someone actually openly stated desire for violence against someone, that seems like a huge jeopardy for workplace safety--whether personally or for someone else at that firm.

Rest assured that an actual desire for violence by someone worth his salt would simply be silently executed just like the snitching you hold so dear, and at most would be diplomatically hinted (perhaps with an implicit bailout offer). Only a complete inexperienced butthead would proclaim his intention to "FUCK YOU UP MAN!!!" so directly AND giving you ample time to take countermeasures. So you're really fantasizing about a non-issue.

However your base premise of snitching people on the tiniest grounds of holding ideas that you despise, is still disgusting.

02-05-12 13:11 #

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DeathevokatioN
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Posts: 2089
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Gotta say, I agree entirely with Maes.

02-05-12 16:16 #

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Belial
Senior Member

Posts: 1803
Registered: 09-05

I suppose you'd be entirely at ease after seeing that your co-worker's notebook looks like it came from Patrick Bateman's drawer.

02-05-12 17:18 #

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dew
Feral Kid

Posts: 1704
Registered: 05-08

Belial said:
I suppose you'd be entirely at ease after seeing that your co-worker's notebook looks like it came from Patrick Bateman's drawer.

monday @ 9pm: torching the house of the nigger from my office. don't forget to lock his kids in! white power!

nah, that's just harmless venting cause he didn't get to lead the new project. nothing to worry about, wouldn't wanna be a goddamn snitch.

02-05-12 17:28 #

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Maes
I like big butts!

Posts: 8662
Registered: 07-06

Leaving the fact that nobody with a serious intention of doing it would actually write it...he would simply execute it...

...I would silently tolerate that and at most wait for him to actually show up at my premises, because I wouldn't like the same thing (a summary judgment based just on a superficial examination of one of my personal objects) happening to me, even if for entirely different reasons.

Unless you're some kind of Hollywood-script-perfect and morally flawless Mary Sue (don't bother replying to that...nobody is), everybody has something reprehensible, slightly "off" etc. which could be somehow be used against them by a determined adversary. People who boast loudly or too obviously just make it easier for would-be opponents.

Let alone that with all that social media crap bubble, everybody seems to willingly put his personal data, hobbies, weaknesses etc. in plain view for everyone to see. It's not uncommon to read about faceshit or twatter-induced job firings, lawsuits etc.

So it's more a matter of minding your own business and not sticking your nose up other peoples' butts, a virtue that sadly few people ever learn.

02-05-12 17:33 #

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Grain of Salt
Member

Posts: 629
Registered: 12-10

Belial said:

Maes wrote:
Fearmongering nonsense

QFT.

In this thread, we learn that seeking disciplinary action means you are inciting violence and that you deserve what you get. But if you just incite violence the old-fashioned way, people should bend over backwards to assume good faith on your part.

Well, at least I now understand the value of the ignore list.

02-05-12 17:59 #

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Justince
Mini-Member

Posts: 91
Registered: 02-11

Phml said:

Fact is, people get competitive, people run their mouth, and most of the time that's just what it is. Words are often a way to relieve pressure.

Man I really want to shoot Maes. Hmm, I do feel better!

02-05-12 18:08 #

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Maes
I like big butts!

Posts: 8662
Registered: 07-06

Perhaps the worst fate for a snitch is for his "tips" to be ignored from the authorities...but not from the snitch-ee ;-) Who's gonna save his little snitchin' ass then, huh?

Grain of Salt said:
Well, at least I now understand the value of the ignore list.

A very bad idea. How do you know that someone isn't writing that your mother e.g. sucks cock, then?

Edit: ah right...by a snitch ;-)

02-05-12 18:12 #

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Belial
Senior Member

Posts: 1803
Registered: 09-05

Maes said:
So it's more a matter of minding your own business and not sticking your nose up other peoples' butts, a virtue that sadly few people ever learn.

Oh really? I see it all too often in neighbors interviewed after some domestic violence incident goes past day to day abuse.

"Always knew it'd come to this."
"So why haven't you informed proper authorities?"
"Not my business."

02-05-12 18:13 #

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Maes
I like big butts!

Posts: 8662
Registered: 07-06

Sounds more like a thought-terminating clich�, and there's even the counter-clich� e.g. "But he seemed such a decent/quiet person....".

02-05-12 18:15 #

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Membrain
Junior Member

Posts: 209
Registered: 09-10

Maes said:
Sounds more like a thought-terminating clich�, and there's even the counter-clich� e.g. "But he seemed such a decent/quiet person....".

EDIT: Nevermind. I was trolled.

And because I hate leaving others without context, this was just a post explaining how expecting people to actually act out and do something when people are potentially at risk is not being a "snitch." But nevermind the consequences of not doing anything. As long as your hands are clean at the end of the day, it's not your problem.

Last edited by Membrain on 02-05-12 at 20:10

02-05-12 18:29 #

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Maes
I like big butts!

Posts: 8662
Registered: 07-06

Please, show some sensitivity here. I had a son who was a snitch and I assure you, it was no laughing matter.

02-05-12 18:32 #

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Phml
Forum Staple

Posts: 2035
Registered: 06-09

In this thread, we learn that seeking disciplinary action means you are inciting violence and that you deserve what you get. But if you just incite violence the old-fashioned way, people should bend over backwards to assume good faith on your part.

I'm not really seeing that. There's what should be, and what is. Explaining the situation doesn't mean you endorse it.

02-05-12 19:05 #

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DuckReconMajor
Forum Spammer

Posts: 3848
Registered: 01-09

Did saying "that's just how it is" get anybody anywhere?

Sure, if you're in a bad situation and can't do anything about it, then the safest thing to do is to go with the flow. But if you do have the power to make a change, are you saying that trying to make things better for a greater number of people is a bad thing?

Yeah a lot of the world still works the way Maes describes. But many other places have gone away from that.

02-05-12 20:00 #

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DoomUK
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Posts: 2228
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Maes said:
Leaving the fact that nobody with a serious intention of doing it would actually write it...he would simply execute it...

Dunno if I'd go that far. It's a little like the myth that goes "people who talk about suicide aren't really suicidal and are just attention seeking". Only in this case it's your own safety at stake. It's hazardously blas�.

02-05-12 20:25 #

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Maes
I like big butts!

Posts: 8662
Registered: 07-06

DuckReconMajor said:
Yeah a lot of the world still works the way Maes describes.

Perhaps because the line between properly reporting (and defusing) a dangerous situation and making a colossal mistake (with all the due consequences) can be really thin? Plus, there's the case where you do report, but are not heeded/protected in any way, so you get no defusing AND full negative consequences.

Claiming that you can "see through" in each and every case is pretty much like saying that you have an absolute sense of right and wrong, and nothing is more dangerous than that. It's the perfect mindset for "benevolent" dictators, vigilantes, "well meaning" whistleblowers, etc.

Last edited by Maes on 02-05-12 at 20:42

02-05-12 20:33 #

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Membrain
Junior Member

Posts: 209
Registered: 09-10

Pretty sure nobody is debating that. But at exactly what point do you become responsible for the consequences of not acting? Are you really trying to say that it's more right to ignore an obviously volatile situation because you don't want to be retaliated against?

02-05-12 20:38 #

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Phml
Forum Staple

Posts: 2035
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Did saying "that's just how it is" get anybody anywhere?

Correctly identifying a problem is the first step in trying to solve it. On the other hand, covering your eyes is just a nice way to open yourself to a well placed gut punch. Figuratively speaking. Or not, as the case may be. ;)

But if you do have the power to make a change, are you saying that trying to make things better for a greater number of people is a bad thing?

Certainly not, because having the power to make a change is a big assumption there. In my opinion, we'd find a cure for cancer or eliminate global hunger before we'd get rid of verbal violence at work. I don't believe in gods and such, so the way I see it, violence is part of who we are biologically speaking and serves a purpose at that level. You can't suppress it, but you can control it. Having it expressed in words is much better than with fists. A better option still is to get people to play more violent video games!

Yeah a lot of the world still works the way Maes describes. But many other places have gone away from that.

Many being relative and all I guess I can't argue against that, but I'm somewhat doubtful.

It's a little like the myth that goes "people who talk about suicide aren't really suicidal and are just attention seeking".

Except this is not a myth. Hard data backs this up. Of course, your phrasing is derogatory. "Most people who talk about suicide are weakened emotionally, are looking for help, and it's important to give them proper care" would be a better way to put it, I think.

Last edited by Phml on 02-05-12 at 20:46

02-05-12 20:39 #

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eargosedown
Forum Regular

Posts: 780
Registered: 12-04

Maes, the simple fact of the matter is, while some people can be all gunhoe and shit and tough guy out any threats, many people can't.

Most guys could easily overpower me, without a weapon. And that's in a straight up standoff. If I got jumped from behind, I'd stand no chance, let alone if they had a weapon or a couple of buddies.

I simply wouldn't want to work in that environment, because I'd be scared. I wouldn't be able to actually do my job well if I had good suspicion that someone had real intent to hurt me. I would get out of that situation, whether it's by reporting them actually making threats/taking action (and I'm talking serious threats here) or leave the situation where I feel threatened.

It's simple self preservation. I'd really rather not get the shit kicked out of me for whatever reason they hate me. I'd definitely prefer not to be raped by some fuckface. And I actually rather enjoy living and wouldn't want to be murdered. So I'd stay away from a situation where chances of violence against me were present.

So it's all well and good to be ready to throw down, but for a lot of people that simply isn't an option. While I've never faced blind discriminatory hate on the basis of my race or sexual orientation or whatever (I suppose the straight white community is a bit privileged in that regards) I'm not going to voluntarily maintain myself in a situation where it is a possibility.

I suppose my dignity is really low to keep self-preservation in mind. I'd rather that than have my friends remember me at my funeral for not being a dirty snitch!

02-05-12 20:42 #

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Maes
I like big butts!

Posts: 8662
Registered: 07-06

OK, what sort of work environment would that be? Exactly what sort of workplace would have an average guy/girl working side-by-side with gangbangers and dangerous muggers? I certainly can't picture a "white collar" setting like that.

In a more "blue collar" setting, you may have a point, since the social and cultural level there tends to be lower (with no offense to any actual blue collar worker here, BTW).

In any case, if you really face direct and unambiguous threats in such a setting, chances are that they will come from people who are well-connected (e.g. inside a trade union) and will cover each other's back, so snitching would be doubly dangerous, as you don't know who is backing who. TL; DR: if it's the real deal (e.g. not being liked by co-workers in a gang/union), you wouldn't stand a chance anyway.

Threats made by a single, unconnected clearly deranged/abnormal individual are really rare, and those tend to fuck up and get kicked out pretty quickly anyway, because they tend to destabilize the status quo.

02-05-12 20:50 #

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Vordakk
Forum Regular

Posts: 862
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This thread got good while I was away.

02-05-12 21:50 #

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Jodwin
Forum Staple

Posts: 2741
Registered: 02-05

Vordakk said:
This thread got good while I was away.

Guess that explains why.

To get back on topic for a second, gay lost with 37.4 % vs. 62.6 %.

02-06-12 07:06 #

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Technician
Still no custom title

Posts: 5772
Registered: 08-04

Jodwin said:
To get back on topic for a second, gay lost with 37.4 % vs. 62.6 %.

Welp, at least we can take comfort that America is still an irrational and bigoted western society. After all, the people who stick their penis's into the right slot run this country perfectly as it is.

EDIT: Where's that poll? I want to read the comments section.

Last edited by Technician on 02-06-12 at 07:30

02-06-12 07:14 #

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Vordakk
Forum Regular

Posts: 862
Registered: 07-10

Technician said:

EDIT: Where's that poll? I want to read the comments section.

I managed to find this, although based on who conducted the poll I'd take the results with more than a grain of salt. Plus they only polled 967 people. You have to scroll down to find where they ask the people a question about supporting an openly gay president. They do manage to get one thing right though: History is clearly not our strong suit.

02-06-12 08:29 #

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Jodwin
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Technician said:
EDIT: Where's that poll? I want to read the comments section.

I was referring to yesterday's presidential elections in Finland.

02-06-12 08:37 #

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Technician
Still no custom title

Posts: 5772
Registered: 08-04

Vordakk said:
I managed to find this, although based on who conducted the poll I'd take the results with more than a grain of salt. Plus they only polled 967 people. You have to scroll down to find where they ask the people a question about supporting an openly gay president. They do manage to get one thing right though: History is clearly not our strong suit.

If that poll really is accurate, I'm actually surprised.

http://www.sodahead.com/united-stat...459731#comments

I found this forum that really opened my eyes on how people see the prospects of a gay president. It really is black or white. I'm shocked to see that most people who oppose the thought, didn't quickly reference the Bible, but fell back on lame stereotypes or the "It's my opinion and I'm entitled to it".

Jodwin said:
I was referring to yesterday's presidential elections in Finland.

Sorry, bro, 'jumped the gun. I guess maybe we overly romanticize some of Europe's progressiveness. But I'm assuming the person's sexuality has anything to do with his loss and not his politics, and that's what really matters, even if that usually isn't so.

02-06-12 09:04 #

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myk
volver� y ser� millones

Posts: 14422
Registered: 04-02

Phml said:
Explaining the situation doesn't mean you endorse it.

No, but Maes isn't just doing that. His discourse creates a context where such behaviors are more acceptable and where "snitching" becomes more suspect. Whether someone endorses something isn't just a yes or no situation, it's relative, and there are more or less conscious, or willing, levels of advocacy. Some advocate by giving full support to an idea openly, others more weakly by saying "it's sad, my friend, but that's how things are". The former is generally possible only in a group of like-minded racists, homophobes or whatever, while the latter tends to be as far as you can get in a more socially sane context.

02-06-12 15:53 #

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