John Romero is Going to Make You His Bitch Again

K!r4 said:

On-topic: What if Romero's plan was to make a Doom-like app for Facebook?

How is Quake Live doing?

Technician said:

How is Quake Live doing?

Well that's as far as possible from my conception of what a "Facebook app" is.

In my book, Facebook app = a memory-devouring PHP-generated AJAX mess, that implements only very simple game mechanics like buying/selling stuff, and performing time-bounded actions like attacking or performing an upgrade to some trivial and useless shit one time over some arbitrary limit. Oh and buying virtual shit for real money, no matter how they call it (exclusive items, "favor points" etc.). I certainly wouldn't want to see such a "Doom-based" app.

If John really wants to make everyone his bitch, all he'd have to do would be to push something like the above, turning Doom into a Farmville or Mafia Wars-like travesty: I, for one, would feel violated.

I think it might be cool if Romero did a legit oldschool FPS in a browser, maybe even on Facebook. A sprite-based, fast-paced game with an addictive quality. Simple gameplay, but deeper underlying systems. Given all that game designers have learned about how to retain players (unlocking this or that, achievements, and so on), and given Romero's history and strengths, I could imagine such a fun, addictive game working.

The AJAX technology used within Facebook -and required for broad compatibility- clearly limits the options of what you can pull off without jumping through hoops. Quake Live is based on a third party and browser-specific plugin -thus clearly showing what Carmack thought of supposedly cross-browser established technologies like Adobe Alchemy, Java Web Start or Silverlight, all of which are capable of delivering higher performance than AJAX.

Yeah, there is a port of Quake II to Javascript -but it's based on cross-compiling a Java (!) port of Quake II, Jake, using Google's Windowing Toolkit, and then using a lot of non-standard addons like WebGL to even make it work. Sound is also a major sore point for AJAX apps, most use the trick of using Flash plugins in iframes for playing short sound clips.

Yes, there is a Doom port for Javascript but that too is a cross-compilation of linuxdoom from C into a Javascript virtual machine -kinda like that Internet C++ flop, with a ridiculous memory and processing overhead. And that was for sub-vanilla framerates at vanilla resolution, plus it was essentially unmaintainable, as there would be no way to cross the C-Javascript barrier with some "injected" Cloud code (e.g. how would saves and settings be implemented?)

TBQH, I'd hate to hear that they even consider such a thing: even an apparently simple app like Fish Isle can end up hogging the Javascript engine of a browser with 100% CPU use and using more than 0.5 GB of RAM, I dare not imagine how inefficient a "Facebook approved" version of Doom based on a similar technology would be. Maybe in 5 years it will be standard fare, but not with current technologies, it won't be good.

Maes, you have done a great job at making me feel like geo.

e: also: you're the Carmack to my Romero :(

Mogul said:

Maes, you have done a great job at making me feel like geo.

e: also: you're the Carmack to my Romero :(

Ouch. Glad to know I'm a pillar in some communities and a fool in others. Thanks for researching me :-)

Technician said:

How is Quake Live doing?

Slowly dying. Servers aren't nearly as busy as they were back in 2010.

geo said:

I'm a pillar in some communities

Wouldn't want to know which ones.

Daikatana Game Boy Color promo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knCL647_xZk&feature=g-all-u&context=G2c20bc9FAAAAAAAAKAA

I hope this one doesn't become a disappointment this time around.

It could be the next Dead Island.

DOOM II for Gameboy Advance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxQIG1CoKlk&feature=related


Oh hey look, I'm geo and I'm posting about something vaguely related to the topic that no one asked to see, for no apparent reason other than to raise my post count.

Sorry to hear about the guy holding a gun to your head, forcing you to read people's posts.

John Romero details plans for "MMO-ish" PC shooter

There are interesting bits, worth the read.

Agile player movement and explorable levels? Sounds good to me!

"I'm not a fan of cover systems or the player being a bullet sponge. I'm not that interested in the tank-like player; I like feeling that I have skill in the game," So far, I like what I'm reading, lets hope Doom 4 will be awesome too.

esselfortium said:

Agile player movement and explorable levels? Sounds good to me!

I get the feeling that by "agile," he's talking about something Brink-like. To be honest, I really don't see the point. If by "agile" he means QuakeWorld, by all means. :) That will obviously not happen though.

I'm more inclined to believe he means Doom/Quake like. This is Romero after all.

There is no way he's going to purposely code-in wallrunning, bunnyhopping, strafejumping, air control, instant weapon switching, and the like. "Agility" in the sense that he means surely cannot be anything like DOOM or Quake.

As long as he includes frogs and mosquitoes I'll be happy.

I'm afraid players' assholes will get constipated again. Some poor souls cleansed themselves inside out, shaved, puckered up and inhaled a ton of poppers in anticipation of their bitch-making, but instead got sore, constipated and tired from the waiting, rather than the shaggin'.

Mogul said:

There is no way he's going to purposely code-in wallrunning, bunnyhopping, strafejumping, air control, instant weapon switching, and the like. "Agility" in the sense that he means surely cannot be anything like DOOM or Quake.

Whatever. I just meant having a fast running speed.

Is that what "agile" means? I wouldn't say so, but if that is what he meant, then I am sorry to have to tell Mr. Romero that faster run speed does not good gameplay make, automatically. I guess it's a start.

Mogul said:

There is no way he's going to purposely code-in wallrunning, bunnyhopping, strafejumping, air control, instant weapon switching, and the like. "Agility" in the sense that he means surely cannot be anything like DOOM or Quake.

Most of the stuff you mentioned never were purposefully coded in. They're quirks of the engine and more likely need to be purposefully coded OUT.

Bunnyhopping is annoying as shit.

Faster player speed is a huge start. I'd argue that "speed as defense" is one of the key elements from shooters of the Quake/Doom era that's bringing down modern shooters by being completely absent. So yeah, that small "agile" mention could turn out to be a very good thing.

There is no way he's going to purposely code-in wallrunning, bunnyhopping, strafejumping

These things are not only boring but directly counteract agility, due to the precise movement and skill involved. For every player who would manage it and feel agile, you'd have a thousand player who wouldn't, and would feel clumsy. Advertising something and then selling a game that'd work as intended for 0.1% of your playerbase would be fairly silly, especially as that particular 0.1%, the so-called "hardcore", are the most entitled, whiny and ungrateful customers you can have and will tell you and everyone around your game is shit even if you include all that stuff.

Agile = fast player speed, reactive controls and arcade physics with margin for error.

I don't really agree with Romero that consoles caused slower player movement in games in general (but that I still agree that that's why console FPS designers tend to choose slower player movement). Look at the original Deus Ex, it had rather slow player movement, and that was before Halo caused console FPSes to really take off. Hell, even Doom originally had really slow player movement. Slow movement still existed in games long before Halo, it just became more prominent later on.


Regardless, I think it's pretty obvious that Romero wants to increase the player movement speed in his game.

Won't there be a hell of a lot of background motion-blurring with the player moving so fast? That would look messy.