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MRB_Doom
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People to Land on Mars in 'Next 40 Yrs' - Scientist

Oh yeah goin' to set up the teleportation labs baby.

Last edited by MRB_Doom on 04-23-12 at 10:36

Old Post 04-23-12 10:28 #
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neubejiita
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Time to join the US Marine Corps, get angry and king-hit my superiour officer and be shipped off to Phobos. F%^ck Yeah. Or maybe not...

But seriously, terraforming Mars to make it livable would take hundreds of years and only our great-great-great-great granchildren will ever swim in the flooded Valles Marineris ocean.

Not that it would not be a great view from the top of Olympus Mons. 29,000 Meters tall! And seeing the Tharsis bulge.

Last edited by neubejiita on 04-24-12 at 05:32

Old Post 04-23-12 10:38 #
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GreyGhost
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neubejiita said:
terraforming Mars to make it livable
Meh - we should first demonstrate a capacity to maintain this biosphere in a habitable state before buggering up another one.

Old Post 04-23-12 11:11 #
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Quast
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40 years is a stretch imo. 100 years maybe, or more until someone come up with the funding and a damn good reason to send people out on multi year mission. It's gotta be more worthwhile than planting a damn flag.

As awesome as it would be to witness, the more and more I think about it, the less I start to believe that it will happen in my lifetime.

Old Post 04-23-12 11:20 #
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K!r4
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Surely if you think about institutions like NASA who are slowly dying. I am more optimistic when it comes to private companies.

As for the terraformation thing, it's a process that takes thousands of years as of our current knowledge. I'd rather bet on the modification of the human body so he can fit extra-terrestrial environments.

Yet I think we'd better colonize our solar system within the end of our century given the mess we are doing: centralization of all known life in the same rock with nuclear rockets all around and a climate more and more fucked up, it's like if I'd place all my money on the same risky investment.

Old Post 04-23-12 11:53 #
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DoomUK
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people said:
terraforming Mars, responsibility issues

We're getting ahead of ourselves. The article is talking about a small team of scientists going to Mars, not an entire colony of regular people. Kind of like what the moon missions were.

Old Post 04-23-12 11:57 #
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MRB_Doom
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I would love to settle down on the moon if a military base, hospital, food processing plant, decent transport and a giant computer station with consoles for communications and pr0n browsing could be established.

This of course would be more relaxing with ultra advanced teleporters serving as the transport from the moon and throughout the universe and beyond.

Also, chillin' on a military base on Phobos and playing the original Doom would be very very awesome.

Old Post 04-23-12 12:02 #
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GreyGhost
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Quast said:
40 years is a stretch imo. 100 years maybe, or more until someone come up with the funding and a damn good reason to send people out on multi year mission. It's gotta be more worthwhile than planting a damn flag.
Depends on who has the willpower and resources to pull it off. Personally, I think it'll require a new Space Race, for which the most likely contenders appear to be China and a non-government consortium led by Richard Branson's Virgin Galactic.


DoomUK said:
The article is talking about a small team of scientists going to Mars, not an entire colony of regular people. Kind of like what the moon missions were.
Science was never really a consideration with the Apollo Program, it was primarily driven by national pride and prestige with only one scientist setting foot on the Moon before the program was wound down.

Old Post 04-23-12 12:24 #
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Quast
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K!r4 said:
Surely if you think about institutions like NASA who are slowly dying. I am more optimistic when it comes to private companies

Maybe. When spacex or virgin galactic or whoever actually land on the moon for some proof of concept that they are capable of more than simply reaching sub-orbital altitudes I might be more enthralled. Then again these outfits are fairly new so, baby steps are to be taken and time is needed.

Space needs to be profitable for these groups to get anywhere after the founders get tired of pouring their wealth into it. And until the general public isn't priced out of these 1 or 2 hour jaunts that are being offered. Something really amazing is going to have to occur to make spaceflight affordable.


DoomUK said:
The article is talking about a small team of scientists going to Mars, not an entire colony of regular people. Kind of like what the moon missions were.

That's really the problem though. Going to mars isn't at all like going to the moon. An apt comparison might be a weekend drive to grandmas house and, well, flying to the moon.

Going to mars is a dangerous enough, long enough and costly enough endeavor that to NOT think about or plan for long term goals regarding colonization/habitation would be a gigantic waste of time and resources. And once you've done that you'd damn well better have the systems and infrastructure in place for regular trips back and forth to bring in more equipment, resupply and more importantly, swap out the crew.

Because if you're not willing to do that, then why bother sending humans at all and not more landers and probes? Some vague and pointless masturbatory exercise in lauding the 'human spirit'?

Last edited by Quast on 04-23-12 at 13:04

Old Post 04-23-12 12:59 #
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D_GARG
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if it is required to take resources from earth to start the process of setting mars alive, one may doubt it to succeed

Old Post 04-23-12 13:26 #
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MRB_Doom
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Mars Astronauts Risk DNA Damage - Scientists

Old Post 04-23-12 13:35 #
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K!r4
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D_GARG said:
if it is required to take resources from earth to start the process of setting mars alive, one may doubt it to succeed

There are alternatives that are discussed: http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/18/2...-cameron-google

@MRB_Doom: that's where transhumanism should be sincerely taken into account. We should first have means to have control over our genome before making such a risky trip.

Old Post 04-23-12 14:07 #
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MRB_Doom
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K!r4 said:
@MRB_Doom: that's where transhumanism should be sincerely taken into account. We should first have means to have control over our genome before making such a risky trip.


The Fountain of Youth will soon be discovered and humans will be able to become one with the machines and travel throughout this dimension flawlessly.

As for those who oppose this idea, they can stay behind on Earth and become the imminent victims of either a nuclear holocaust or a viral pandemic.

I stated in a thread some weeks ago that we can't predict the future, but we can sure as Hell control our destiny. I will not tolerate being programmed for my journey in any universe just because that being like's to be the boss. That's spiritual tyranny.

My thoughts on the universe: Big Bang? Nah. God's creation? Nah.

I believe it has always existed and will continue to do so.

Traveling to a dimension where time and space does not exist, where infinity and eternity is simply the first step towards the destination that cannot be described with words or emotions, that is where I want to go.

Old Post 04-23-12 15:06 #
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Mr. T
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I saw a neat explanation that posited that the universe is not expanding and that dark energy doesn't exist; instead different parts of the universe have different laws of physics. Mind = blown.

Anyway, it's no secret that Elon Musk wants to send humans to Mars. And I think he has the vision to do it.

Old Post 04-23-12 15:25 #
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GeckoYamori
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K!r4 said:
Surely if you think about institutions like NASA who are slowly dying. I am more optimistic when it comes to private companies


It's highly unlikely private corporations are going to pioneer a manned Mars landing, or maybe even going back to the moon. The amount of money needed poses huge unknown risks and you're probably not going to find willing investors for those types of projects when you can just focus on short-term profits instead. It's institutions like NASA that are needed to make the push, after that the risks will be more understood and the technology needed will probably have become cheaper.

Old Post 04-23-12 16:46 #
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Carnevil
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MRB_Doom said:


My thoughts on the universe: Big Bang? Nah. God's creation? Nah.

I believe it has always existed and will continue to do so.


I just want to say that I completely agree with this. I went over the evidence for the universe accelerating in its expansion with my old physics professor (one of the engineers on the Hubble Space Telescope) and we both agreed that it was pretty much total crap. Time and space seem to be infinite, so there being beginning to it all doesn't make a lot of sense either.

Old Post 04-23-12 17:21 #
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Quasar
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If we want to terraform Mars the best bet would be to devise a method to capture and transport large amounts of CO2 gas from Venus, actually. Its overly dense atmosphere, the primary cause for its inhospitable temperature, would simultaneously be thinned, possibly simultaneously preparing both worlds for colonization at the same time. Once a substantial CO2 atmosphere was established around Mars, plants would be able to grow in its soil with a decent amount of fertilizer added (we have plenty of poop on earth to get rid of, right?) and would start the process of converting the CO2 to breathable oxygen.

Water is a larger problem though... for that we'd probably need access to the Saturnian moons or rings, which contain a very large amount of water ice. We could attach rockets to large chunks of ice and fire them at Mars, simulating a comet bombardment not unlike the one theorized to have happened to Earth in its infancy. The problem is not having it all remain ice, or boil off into space. Keep in mind Mars is believed to have once been habitable, but its lack of magnetism allowed solar radiation to sweep away most of the atmosphere. How the hell do we keep that from happening again? Giant magnetic satellites? :P

Old Post 04-23-12 17:23 #
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D_GARG
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Quasar said:
(we have plenty of poop on earth to get rid of, right?)


nonono we already throw shitloads of metal into sapce, besides covering a planets surface with shit will kill the bio-balance on earth, infact we should make syre that every single piece of matter that leaves earth comes back(of that matter we can return)


Quasar said:
Giant magnetic satellites? :P

fuckloads of IRON :D create a magnetic field like the one we ahve here no earth

Old Post 04-23-12 19:10 #
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Mordeth
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neubejiita said:
Time to join, the US Marine Corps, get angry and kinghit my superiour officer and be shipped off to Phobos.


Sorry, but they're looking to fill only one position at the present time.

Old Post 04-23-12 19:52 #
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Ralphis
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Mordeth said:


Sorry, but they're looking to fill only one position at the present time.



Which one is that?

Old Post 04-23-12 20:10 #
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Stygian
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Mars has a thin, carbon-dioxide atmosphere because it's mass is roughly half that of the Earth and it's gravitational tug is relatively weak. Even if you could produce breathable gas for an atmosphere on Mars, how would you keep it from drifting off into space? Terraforming Mars to have a breathable atmosphere probably would not be possible and big enclosures would have to be built for people to live in.

Old Post 04-23-12 20:17 #
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MRB_Doom
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Enacting breathable air on Mars may be a real Doom fest, but getting to the surface on Jupiter might be infinitely more difficult. But hey, getting to land on Jupiter and take a stroll on a gas giant is so totally worth the effort.

I have these imaginations how Neptune has these Long Islandesque beaches with a beautiful setting to look at.

Old Post 04-23-12 20:31 #
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dew
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Stygian said:
Mars has a thin, carbon-dioxide atmosphere because it's mass is roughly half that of the Earth and it's gravitational tug is relatively weak.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_%28moon%29

Old Post 04-23-12 20:32 #
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Dragonsbrethren
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Titan orbits within Saturn's magnetic field, so it's not having its atmosphere continuously stripped by the solar wind.

Old Post 04-23-12 21:28 #
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Stygian
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dew said: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_%28moon%29
Well, that destroys my argument. The only things that comes to mind is the difference in surface temperature between Mars and Titan. Titan is about 120 K cooler than Mars. Nitrogen at 93 K is more dense than Carbon-dioxide at 210 K, which raises another issue for hopeful terraformers: Mars is freezing cold. Also, to correct myself, saying that Mars has half the mass of Earth is complete BS; it's 11% as massive as the Earth

Old Post 04-23-12 21:49 #
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eargosedown
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Magnetic fields (like on earth) protect the atmospheres from what's called Solar Wind--which is basically the suns energy constantly smashing into everything as it radiates. Mars, for some reason, lost its magnetic field at some point and the atmosphere slowly was 'blown away' into space. Thus why it's so dead now (relatively speaking.) edit; I should clarify--Mars has a very weak magnetic field, not a non-existent one.

We could go to Mars this year (well, launch anyways) but the truth is, it's way too expensive and impractical to send a person to Mars when we could send a rover for 1/30th the cost, not have to worry about getting it back, and have it do a similar job to the person(s) we send.


Carnevil said:

I just want to say that I completely agree with this. I went over the evidence for the universe accelerating in its expansion with my old physics professor (one of the engineers on the Hubble Space Telescope) and we both agreed that it was pretty much total crap. Time and space seem to be infinite, so there being beginning to it all doesn't make a lot of sense either.



If you want a better understanding of the current assumed theories on space time based on general relativity, check out The Shape of the Universe and notable on Closed/Open universes. Until observations of the Hubble Constant (some info here) is proven false through new observations or inaccurate somehow, the idea that the universe does 'expand' will remain more or less as fact--further, the Cosmic Microwave Background is extremely compelling evidence that the big bang took place.

By our dimensional perception space may "seem" infinite and impossible to have limits, but conceptually it's fairly simple to understand, and things such as general relativity experiments show that it very likely works how we currently understand it.

Old Post 04-23-12 22:12 #
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Stygian said:
The only things that comes to mind is the difference in surface temperature between Mars and Titan. Titan is about 120 K cooler than Mars. Nitrogen at 93 K is more dense than Carbon-dioxide at 210 K, which raises another issue for hopeful terraformers: Mars is freezing cold.

That's not entirely accurate actually. While mars is generally pretty cold (it's polar ice caps aren't just ice water, but carbon dioxide as well during the winter months), However it can reach temperatures of 60-70 degrees F in summer. In fact there is evidence of the ice water that is trapped beneath the martian soil, melting and flowing from time to time.

As far as titan is concerned, yeah it's cold there, but saturn is almost 10 times the distance from the sun that mars is. Saturn is as far away from jupiter as jupiter is as far from the sun.


eargosedown said:
Mars, for some reason, lost its magnetic field at some point and the atmosphere slowly was 'blown away' into space. Thus why it's so dead now (relatively speaking.) edit; I should clarify--Mars has a very weak magnetic field, not a non-existent one.

No magnetic field, no vulcanism means mars molten core ain't so molten anymore. As that slowly solidifies, the field will eventually disappear altogether no doubt.

Last edited by Quast on 04-24-12 at 01:09

Old Post 04-24-12 01:04 #
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Mr. T
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The thing is, all the challenges of colonizing Mars are inherently solvable - Venus has a thick atmosphere yet no magnetosphere, and creating an artificial magnetic field is not out of the question.

I want to go!

Old Post 04-24-12 03:10 #
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Quast
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Mr. T said:
The thing is, all the challenges of colonizing Mars are inherently solvable - Venus has a thick atmosphere yet no magnetosphere, and creating an artificial magnetic field is not out of the question.

I want to go!


A magnetic field or the lack thereof while certainly an issue, is not really something to worry about. Terraforming is thousands of years off.

The real issues with human exploration and colonization of mars are legion.

Lack of political will/funding. Why waste money in space when there are problems down here? You couldn't throw a rock without hitting someone that thinks like this. Politicians eat it up and NASAs funding slowly disappears year by year and space and science programs go belly up.

Public apathy. This pretty much ties into the other point, but is important nonetheless. People don't give a shit about space. Seriously, they do not care. Space really is the realm of scientists and non-scientist nerds. The general public? They don't know a damn thing about it and they don't want to know unless a shuttle blows up and then they can commence bitching about how we've been "wasting money" studying rocks and now we're wasting lives.

Of course there are always technical and engineering issues but those things are tangible, workable problems even if some may be seemingly insurmountable at the moment. Even if it takes years, decades or centuries. Politics and public opinion however are something else and no one is getting to mars without both in agreement.

Old Post 04-24-12 04:34 #
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BloodyAcid
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40 years to Mars, 50 years to the BFG ;)

Old Post 04-24-12 04:45 #
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