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Jodwin
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Congrats for the greenlit!

Old Post 10-17-13 07:21 #
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geo
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I'm happy for you Carn.

Old Post 10-17-13 15:32 #
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Waffenak
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interesting looking game, that one weapon at the trailer looked like quake 4 antimatter gun

Old Post 10-17-13 19:52 #
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Carnevil
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Thanks guys! :) We'll have plenty more for you in a few days.

EDIT: Or, maybe not! Getting greenlit may be changing our plans (*cough* Early Access *cough*).

Last edited by Carnevil on 10-18-13 at 01:22

Old Post 10-18-13 01:09 #
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geo
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Good luck to you Carn. Just don't make the early access too much cheaper than the final product. I know Steam always does pre orders for a discount.

You'll get a lot of people buying multiple copies to sell for TF2 and dota 2 keys. Hopefully I don't sound too crazy when I say this, but make sure when you assign currency values to your game in euro, pounds and rubles they are all the same price. A lot of times Steam sells games in Russia for much cheaper. Then American 'game flippers' just buy dozens or hundreds the games from the Russian version of Steam for cheaper. It might not matter to you, but I feel it rips off the game makers. Steamprices.com has more info.

Last edited by geo on 10-18-13 at 03:42

Old Post 10-18-13 03:21 #
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Jodwin
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Carnevil said:
Early Access

Considering the situation with Wrack, both in terms of money and your history of early releases on other sites, I'd say it's entirely understandable if you decide to go for early access, but I just have to put this out there: Early access is the worst thing to have happened to Steam ever. Even much worse than the Greenlight system. Although it's also a matter of poor customer responsibility that we see people buying early access alphas while expecting near to finished games, but more than anything it undervalues your title and, subsequently, all titles on Steam. It would be just fine if it was used only by a couple of titles that really need it like, say, Wrack...but instead everyone seems to be going for early access causing massive inflation on the whole concept. Either your early access game will be in such an early access that it'll get bad flack for being work in progress, or it'll be finished enough that some people will wonder why did you go for early state in the first place rather than a full release - you just can not win. Fuck Valve and fuck early access.

Old Post 10-18-13 06:07 #
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geo
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Yep sell the game now instead of later. Kinda sucks in a way. Rewarding someone for not completing something. What motivation is there to finish the game?

When I bought Towns it was a full game, yet very broken and incomplete.

He's right about the work in progress = finished product. If someone has played it and didn't like it then they won't play it when its finished. But the problem is telling everyone else it was unpolished, and incomplete.... when it should be as an early access, but then word will spread that its not an A+ game.

Old Post 10-18-13 06:33 #
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Carnevil
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Yeah, I can certainly see how Early Access can be abused and deincentivize developers to finish up and do a good job. However, as Jodwin says, it does make total sense for us. There are a lot of benefits of participating (getting feedback, making sure all of the Steam feature integrations work properly, etc.) and I don't think we run the risk of disappointing people. All of the content in the version we plan to put on there is up to par (with a few exceptions) - there are just a few levels still missing. I think that's pretty much the best-case scenario when it comes to Early Access... otherwise, why not just release normally?

Anyway, absolutely nothing is set in stone in terms of our plans. I'll know more tomorrow.

Old Post 10-18-13 08:16 #
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Jodwin
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Carnevil said:
All of the content in the version we plan to put on there is up to par (with a few exceptions) - there are just a few levels still missing. I think that's pretty much the best-case scenario when it comes to Early Access... otherwise, why not just release normally?

Yeah, this is definitely the best way to go with early access. It also depends a bit on the game's genre; the only early access game I've bought is Assault Android Cactus after seeing that it's mechanically complete and just missing some levels. Not only that, but it's also in a genre that you can play whenever for small amounts of time. Compared to an early access RPG or a strategy game which would require large time investments from the player, it's a completely different proposition.

Old Post 10-18-13 08:21 #
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geo
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Towns was such a mess as a full game (before Early Access was a thing) that when they fixed all the bugs I never went back. But I guess maybe that's more of a situation where I played it and moved on.

Anyway Carn, I want achievements! I play FTL a lot and other FPS from 2009, but its just a disappointment that I sink so many hours in with no Steam achievements.

I play Doom 3 BFG and Duke 3D Megaton for the achievements. I already have the games outside of Steam, but really the achievements keep me going. :-)

I'd also like red blood or at least a setting for red blood and gibs. Sorry to be demanding.

Last edited by geo on 10-18-13 at 15:13

Old Post 10-18-13 15:04 #
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Jodwin
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geo said:
achievements

I don't care for those myself, but it would be cool if you had every map have a par time and a par score amount, and then passing those would give you achievements. Maybe that could get more people into speed- and scorerunning Wrack. ;)

Old Post 10-18-13 15:38 #
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Carnevil
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Jodwin said:

I don't care for those myself, but it would be cool if you had every map have a par time and a par score amount, and then passing those would give you achievements. Maybe that could get more people into speed- and scorerunning Wrack. ;)


That's exactly the plan! ;) Don't know if you've been part of the closed beta (if not, I can hook you up) but there's now a medal system when you beat a map, the grade of which is determined by getting all kills/treasure/secrets and beating the par score/time. Those medals are used for unlocking items in the gallery (another new feature!), and will be used for the achievements as well. It's a nice little extra thing that provides a challenge for those seeking it, and really forces people to develop their speedrun/scorerun skills. Obviously not everyone will care about this sort of thing, but for those that do, there's some pretty sweet stuff for them.

Old Post 10-18-13 16:13 #
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geo
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Update your site Carn it still says Steam needs your vote.

Playing through duke 3D Megaton it seems like there are meh achievements. Beat an episode, beat level 1 in under 3 minutes, kill 9,000 enemies. Doom 3D BFG had better ones like kill 50 enemies with barrels. TF2 has some overboard silly ones like kill 79 people with a balloonicorn. Shooter MMOs seem to have a ton of achievements.

While I like the under par time thing, that might be overkill with every level.

What about do X amount of damage with 1 rocket or going through a level using only a shotgun or melee?

While I'm throwing out wishes to a genie.... Explosive enemy mode as a cheat. Duke has a cheat achievement. Stop and die mode for speed runners. If you are stationary for a second you explode.

Random mode where items have a % of actually being there. Random enemy switchouts where something is either a spider or a soldier. Might add for some replayability challenge. Craziness.

Last edited by geo on 10-18-13 at 18:03

Old Post 10-18-13 16:23 #
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Dragonsbrethren
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I complain about achievements all the time, but not because I don't like the concept. I actually really do, I just want achievements to be, well, an achievement. I'm so sick of getting one for clearing a level or beating the first boss...you have to do that, you don't deserve any praise for it!

Par time and score achievements are great, you have to work for them. That's what I want to see, achievements that feel like I've accomplished something slightly outside what a normal player would, based on my skills. Silly stuff like killing X enemies with one rocket/explosion are nice, too.

Oh, and I don't think I've said anything since the beta was released, but the level design updates are great!

Old Post 10-18-13 22:06 #
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Carnevil
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The plan is to have multiple categories of achievements. Some will be very difficult to achieve (tyderium medals on all levels, etc.), some will be for things like simply progressing through the story, and then some will be fun little gimmicky things (kill Mechron using only the Hyperblade). The different categories have different roles - to reward people for progressing through the game, to encourage people to check out other features of the game they otherwise wouldn't, to provide a great challenge, etc.

I had written a bunch of them awhile back, but could probably use some revamping now. It'll be a lot of fun to come up with more of these! :)

Old Post 10-19-13 02:31 #
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Jodwin
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Carny, check your PMs. :)

Old Post 10-19-13 06:09 #
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geo
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Dragonsbrethren said:
I complain about achievements all the time, but not because I don't like the concept. I actually really do, I just want achievements to be, well, an achievement. I'm so sick of getting one for clearing a level or beating the first boss...you have to do that, you don't deserve any praise for it!

Par time and score achievements are great, you have to work for them. That's what I want to see, achievements that feel like I've accomplished something slightly outside what a normal player would, based on my skills. Silly stuff like killing X enemies with one rocket/explosion are nice, too.

Oh, and I don't think I've said anything since the beta was released, but the level design updates are great!



I think even one tiny achievement is good. Proves people actually beat he first level. Its fun looking at global achievements and seeing like 30% of people have beat the first level. Game Dev Tycoon has an achievement for even starting the game. 80% of people have it. Rockstar was disappointed to see not many people beat GTA 4, but that's not the kind of game people buy to beat.

How about an achievement for not killing enemies or at least not killing the spider drones. There's no reason to waste your ammo on them. But I guess if they're in a 'battle arena' you have no choice.

Old Post 10-19-13 14:34 #
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SavageCorona
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Jodwin said:
Needs a demo and a TotalBiscuit's "WTF is" video.


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Old Post 10-24-13 17:10 #
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Jodwin
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SavageCorona said:
idiocy

ITT: SavageCorona quotes a post from May 2012 and posts a video from August 2012 in response.

Old Post 10-24-13 17:30 #
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Well I didn't read tiny numbers did I? It was on the front page so I assumed it was recent.

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Old Post 10-24-13 17:30 #
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Phml
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SavageCorona said:
Well I didn't read tiny numbers did I? It was on the front page so I assumed it was recent.


This made my brain hurt, up until I realised people who think like that are why we get layouts like Twitter's, and now the pain is even worse.

Old Post 10-24-13 20:02 #
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Carnevil
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So, anyway...

As of today, Wrack is working through Steam... with achievements! :) It's been a productive day to say the least. They're not all implemented, and I'm still coming up with more, but the heavy lifting is all done. On top of that, I think I'd like to get Steam-based leaderboards working before this goes live. I've also gotta finish redoing the physics system and optimizing. Lots to do, but in a good way!

Old Post 10-25-13 02:53 #
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SavageCorona
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Has gore and more weapons been added in? Since the beta footage I saw, of course.

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Old Post 10-25-13 02:54 #
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Carnevil
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That version Totalbiscuit played is actually the alpha (hopefully he ends up updating that video title to avoid confusion), but to answer your question... oh yes! PLENTY more! :)

Old Post 10-25-13 03:07 #
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kristus
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Carnevil said:
So, anyway...

As of today, Wrack is working through Steam..

Key plz

;)

Old Post 10-25-13 17:22 #
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geo
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Carnevil said:
That version Totalbiscuit played is actually the alpha (hopefully he ends up updating that video title to avoid confusion), but to answer your question... oh yes! PLENTY more! :)


He always wants people to know its alpha and not reflective of the final product.... but he never seems to go back and reviews the final product.

Wrack doesn't seem to be on Steam.

Old Post 10-26-13 14:31 #
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Carnevil
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It hasn't been publicly released on there yet. I'm giving out keys to people who've already bought it elsewhere and request them. Trying to get everything all squared away for then. I've almost got all the achievements implemented (that I've thought of for now, at least!) and then I'll be turning my focus to getting the leaderboards implemented shortly.

BTW, just a heads up to you guys: If you've been thinking about getting Wrack, but have been waiting to do so, now's your last chance to do at this el-cheapo price. You can still get in on this closed beta/Steam version, and won't be stuck with the inferior alpha version. This has been a public service announcement from Carnbarn.

Old Post 10-26-13 17:13 #
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Dragonsbrethren
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Well consider one of those keys requested.

Old Post 10-26-13 19:31 #
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hardcore_gamer
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Perhaps its been mentioned earlier in the thread but I am too lazy to look for the information:

What has changed since the alpha? I bought it for 10 bucks and wonder what has changed.

Old Post 10-26-13 20:09 #
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Dragonsbrethren
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Much better level design, to the point parts of levels are completely unrecognizable, and a lot more visual effects, plus the Fusion Plant and bazooka.

Speaking of that, two times now, first time I played it and just now replaying, I found myself skipping the bazooka in the fusion plant. I find the level design guides me away from it; I clear both side areas and never actually go to the center.

-edit-

Are you going to have Steam Workshop support for maps/mods when it officially launches? Not sure if developers just have access to that by having a game on Steam or what, but it'd be pretty cool if you could do it. I never detailed my Wrack map, I need to get back to that one of these days.

-ed2-

Nevermind, just reread your announcement blog post.

Old Post 10-26-13 20:56 #
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