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Krispy
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I have to side with Maes. It's not sexist, it's just a stupid little joke. Don't get your panties in a knot over it.

Old Post 07-21-12 21:00 #
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Technician
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Krispy said:
I have to side with Maes. It's not sexist, it's just a stupid little joke. Don't get your panties in a knot over it.
SEXIST COMMENT!

Old Post 07-21-12 21:04 #
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printz
CRAZY DUMB ZEALOT


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Maes said:
or pursue more traditional manly pursuits...
Like what?

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Old Post 07-21-12 21:12 #
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Scypek2
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Google.

Look at that logo.

Now rotate second "g" by 180 degrees.

Flip "e" horisontally.

Now, remove "o", "o" and "l".

What is left?

666!!!

But why was two "o"s and "l" deleted?

Because they're a part of something more...

Put "l" between "o"s.

olo

GENITALIA!

"666" and "olo"

as you can see, Google are just sexoholic satanists.

THAT'S an affair!!!

Old Post 07-21-12 21:28 #
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Maes
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printz said:
Like what?


Shaving.

Old Post 07-21-12 21:31 #
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printz
CRAZY DUMB ZEALOT


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Maes said:


Shaving.

True that, I'm an IT enthusiast and simply cannot get rid of my neckbeard.

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Old Post 07-21-12 21:32 #
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fraggle
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Krispy said:
I have to side with Maes. It's not sexist, it's just a stupid little joke. Don't get your panties in a knot over it.
That would be a relevant point if sexist jokes weren't the number one way to drive women out of any group.

Old Post 07-21-12 23:11 #
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Maes
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Somebody's panties have been tied in a knot over it.

Jokes apart, the only women that seem to fit in neatly in predominantly male trades are those who are pretty masculine and emancipated enough not to get their panties tied in a knot over a ridiculous premise such as "B16B00B1E5". That does NOT include militant feminists, but might include the occasional butch or tomboy, yes.

That's what I'm talking about :

http://inpraiseofsardines.typepad.com/blogs/images/fishmongerhttp://www.cutesmalldogs.com/Images/Bus/15AbileneToDenver/TrvWomanTrucker.jpghttp://www.un.org/en/africarenewal/vol20no3/jobs1.jpg
http://www.cgstock.com/pics/6051.jpghttp://appalshop.org/store/images/9_d.jpg
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2011-02-09-Womanminer_TylerStablefordGettyImages3.jpg

Yeah, I know, coding probably isn't considered as "macho" a trade as the above, but it's a very male trade nonetheless, and not every coder can be considered a "scientist" or an "engineer" in the strictest meaning of the term, anymore, so there's a lot of old-fashioned tinkering and "geeking" over things, just like in many technical trades. It's not all fancy webpages and "cool" image processing.

The closest non-IT jobs would probably be those having to do with practical repairs, e.g. plumbing, electric/electronic technicians etc. in which you also don't see a lot of women.

Hmm....coming to think about it, if women have successfully performed in all of the "macho" jobs pictured above, went through their fair share of whistling and salty comments through the ages and have stopped making too much of a fuss about it, what's the big deal with IT?

If all women in IT have to complain about is a silly hex string, they better shut up: others have had it (and are still having it) much worse than them.

Now that I think of it, I've never seen a female sewage truck driver or operator, nor construction workers ;-)

Last edited by Maes on 07-21-12 at 23:39

Old Post 07-21-12 23:30 #
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I seem to know lots of non-butch/tomboy women who do nerdy or IT things. In fact, half our D&D group is women. I'm totally bringing this up with them later to see what they say.

Old Post 07-22-12 00:29 #
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myk
volveré y seré millones


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Maes said:
If all women in IT have to complain about is a silly hex string, they better shut up: others have had it (and are still having it) much worse than them.
Let's all stop complaining about anything ever because there are people in Africa who have AIDS, are starving and are subject to genocide!

Old Post 07-22-12 01:03 #
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Maes
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myk said:
Let's all stop complaining about anything ever because there are people in Africa who have AIDS, are starving and are subject to genocide!


In fact, we should.

Old Post 07-22-12 01:09 #
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Belial
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Maes said:
You can almost never tell "that woman X there works in IT", because they mostly keep a detached relationship with it. You'll almost never see this fully-immersive nerdiness that characterizes the majority of male IT workers. When it does occur, it's awkward even by the geekiest of standards.

At least from my acquaintances, the ones who pursued studies in IT related fields did it just because they found it lucrative or a good career opener, and not because they had spent their teen years tinkering, unlike many of their male counterparts.

Also explains why most choose theoretical CS (closer to mathematics) or business-related IT, not hardcore development or software engineering. The same thing can be said of other disciplines like engineering, but that's way too OT to debate here. Let's just say that certain branches get a lot of women, others do not.

I'd say the thin red line that separates women from total equality in IT is the point where the technical/dungeon-dwelling aspects takes over the most "hip" aspects (like e.g. website design, localization, content creation). You can't handle the former without at least some of the "geekiness" associated with the trade, and most women into IT don't come from such a background, period.


Women this, women that, thanks for proving Graf right. Just say plainly that you think women can't master the dark arts us men practice in our dungeons because they lack dedication.

Last company I worked at had an average looking girl doing electronics assembly along with 5-6 guys. The company my friend works at just hired a female dev for their IT department. I thought it was pathetic when my friend told me they spent the whole day arguing who's going to sit next to her.

Old Post 07-22-12 01:18 #
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Maes
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Belial said:
Just say plainly that you think women can't master the dark arts us men practice in our dungeons because they lack dedication.


I can't, I would contraddict what I said:


Maes said:
You can't handle the former without at least some of the "geekiness" associated with the trade, and most women into IT don't come from such a background, period.


Reading comprehension aids optional & free of charge.


Belial said:
Last company I worked at had an average looking girl doing electronics assembly along with 5-6 guys


There you have it, a confirmed 1:5 or 1:6 ratio. Certainly, one swallow doesn't bring springtime.... but I think that example is pretty much par for the course.

Old Post 07-22-12 01:39 #
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dew
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heh. maes is being sexist and ultra-conservative and compares stuff to shitty army routine. what else is new?

Old Post 07-22-12 01:53 #
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Maes
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dew said:
compares stuff to shitty army routine. what else is new?


I would really like to know when/how I did that, thank you :-p

Old Post 07-22-12 01:57 #
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Belial
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Maes said:
Reading comprehension aids optional & free of charge.

Sorry, stereotypes go over my head sometimes.

Old Post 07-22-12 01:58 #
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dew
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Maes said:
I'd like to see what those same women would say if they were to be put in an all-male soldiers' dorm

there. a totally idiotic army comparison. in my country you get mixed gender dorms even during the basic army training. we don't have conscription anymore, though, but that's your problem, not mine.

Old Post 07-22-12 02:28 #
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schwerpunk
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Just commenting to say that I'm really enjoying this discussion, and am amazed at how far the internet has come since the early nineties.

Even the 'it's just a joke' camp are kind of sounding like feminists. Good work, boys. [:

Old Post 07-22-12 02:36 #
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Craigs
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Scypek2 said:
Google.

Look at that logo.

Now rotate second "g" by 180 degrees.

Flip "e" horisontally.

Now, remove "o", "o" and "l".

What is left?

666!!!

But why was two "o"s and "l" deleted?

Because they're a part of something more...

Put "l" between "o"s.

olo

GENITALIA!

"666" and "olo"

as you can see, Google are just sexoholic satanists.

THAT'S an affair!!!



If you turn Yahoo's logo sideways you can clearly see that it looks like a Thai hooker getting gang banged by midgets. They need to change that post haste

Old Post 07-22-12 03:12 #
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Clonehunter
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Krispy said:
I have to side with Maes. It's not sexist, it's just a stupid little joke. Don't get your panties in a knot over it.


this

Old Post 07-22-12 04:25 #
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myk
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Maes said:
There you have it, a confirmed 1:5 or 1:6 ratio. Certainly, one swallow doesn't bring springtime.... but I think that example is pretty much par for the course.
Have what, the use of empiricism to denote precisely the situations that give rise to complaints? Your defense of sexism narrows down to the fact it occurs. If someone came and explained a situation where a female worker got raped, would it be a ripe time to justify rape? "Hey, it happened, see, it's the way things are. It's normal, accept it and shut up!" If you were in the middle of Germany in 1942, I picture you using the same method to prove "how Jews naturally inspire repulsion in society and should be thrown in ghettos or deported."


Craigs said:
If you turn Yahoo's logo sideways you can clearly see that it looks like a Thai hooker getting gang banged by midgets. They need to change that post haste
All that says is how stupid it sounds to try to stretch things in an attempt to disprove points like the one fraggle made. So who's really got their "panties in a bunch"? Not people arguing teeth and nail against complaints which are standard procedure and hardly turn society into puritan hell? Perhaps some closeted nerds are so sensitive even the slightest feminist complaint gets them all worked up?

Old Post 07-22-12 06:32 #
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Csonicgo


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Pff, who cares. Of course nerds wouldn't care about women, they're all overweight hambones that flap their cheeto-stained fingers on the keyboard and type buggy code because they're so sure of themselves.

THIS IS A JOKE! THAT'S ALL! REALLY! ha ha ha!


(and that's what a sexist joke feels like.)

Old Post 07-22-12 06:58 #
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Maes
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dew said:
there. a totally idiotic army comparison. in my country you get mixed gender dorms even during the basic army training.


[citation needed]

For the life of me I can't imagine a bunch of hairy and horny guys in their 20s going around in their underwear, farting and burping and yelling like peers in front of women, let alone sleeping in the same room with them beyond pre-school age. There's a very good reason for separating sexes in certain situations, in particular army/prisons/ships etc. The poor women wouldn't simply get fucked, they would get drilled every night.

Unless your country is the Federation shown in Starship Troopers (the Paul Verhoeven version) where apparently nobody cared if topless women walked casually in the dorms, or your "army" is made up of neutered or geriatric "soldiers" ;-)

Last edited by Maes on 07-22-12 at 09:32

Old Post 07-22-12 09:15 #
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printz
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Umm, aren't there still more women in IT than in electrical engineering?

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Old Post 07-22-12 09:34 #
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Maes
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printz said:
Umm, aren't there still more women in IT than in electrical engineering?


I can confirm ratios of about 20:300 in freshman courses for Italian universities, and about 5:30 in Greek ones. Civil, environmental and management engineering as well as Architecture got much higher ratios.

Old Post 07-22-12 09:38 #
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exp(x)


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Maes said:
For the life of me I can't imagine...

This is your problem.

Old Post 07-22-12 14:02 #
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Sodaholic
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This hex string is too small of an issue to be concerned about. I've been reading some of their debates, and it seems that some women actually don't care and find it humorous. What would be a problem is actual misogyny, such as a code comment like "// All women are sluts" or some shit like that.

Old Post 07-22-12 14:15 #
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Maes
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exp(x) said:

This is your problem.



The problem is that claim is likely a joke, or a half-truth applying to some very specific situation, taken out of context and blown out of proportion.

Coed military? Please. Even if certain aspects of military training and interactions are indeed co-ed by now (else it would be counterproductive and a waste of resources having two isolated classes of personnel at the same rank level that can't work together), sleeping can't be one of them for very obvious practical reasons. Even the most liberal and modern armies still allocate separate sleeping quarters for female personnel whenever possible. Co-ed barracks != co-ed rooms (yes, even barracks have separate rooms divided per-platoon, and no, not even military academies, which supposedly attract more intelligent people than lowly grunts have truly co-ed rooms).

Old Post 07-22-12 14:30 #
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Belial
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Maes said:
For the life of me I can't imagine a bunch of hairy and horny guys in their 20s going around in their underwear, farting and burping and yelling like peers in front of women, let alone sleeping in the same room with them beyond pre-school age. There's a very good reason for separating sexes in certain situations, in particular army/prisons/ships etc. The poor women wouldn't simply get fucked, they would get drilled every night.

Living in a third world country must be hard. Besides, military comparisons are irrelevant, if you think they apply to IT then that's exactly the problem at hand, the perception of this branch of engineering as a 'boys club'.

Since we're listing statistics now, my university had 5-10:150-200 first year ratios for women in my course.

Old Post 07-22-12 14:34 #
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Maes
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Belial said:
Living in a third world country must be hard.


You must know a thing or two about it. Unless Poland(?) suddenly became Norway and jumped 100 years into the future regarding sex equality and I'm not aware of it.


Belial said:
Besides, military comparisons are irrelevant


It was dew who raised the "issue" of co-ed dorms in his country (CZ). I call bullshit upon it unless he can provide relevant sources, as it goes against every intuitive notion of modern army organization.

However, yeah, the military is a different issue from IT or technical jobs. The "challenges" of the military arise from the need to have soldiers share a level of intimacy (often a low-level one including nudity, putting up with others' bad BO, snoring and immature behavior) which would be, quite frankly, unbearable between people of different sexes NOT already in a relationship, particularly for females.

IT is just a tinkerer's trade, a whole other story.

Last edited by Maes on 07-22-12 at 14:56

Old Post 07-22-12 14:38 #
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