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Aliotroph?
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I asked a pretty lady friend what she thought of it. She didn't care. She also announced she intends to properly learn computer programming at the first opportunity, so maybe she's just more like us than people realize.

Connecting this to sexism and misogyny is retarded. This is just a couple of programmers having a laugh because they managed to sneak in a word they normally wouldn't be permitted to use. It's no different than when we used to turn our handwriting practice into a practice for improvising pictures of penises and boobs in grade 3.

Calls to take things like this out of code make me want to use things like RAPE_ALL_HUMANS whenever I need a throw-away variable for something just to stick it to people telling me what I'm permitted to say.

Old Post 07-22-12 15:26 #
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Gez
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code:
static fuck = 0; // For debugging only if ( fl->a.x < 0 || fl->a.x >= f_w || fl->a.y < 0 || fl->a.y >= f_h || fl->b.x < 0 || fl->b.x >= f_w || fl->b.y < 0 || fl->b.y >= f_h) { fprintf(stderr, "fuck %d \r", fuck++); return; }

Old Post 07-22-12 16:02 #
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Maes
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code:
char* endmsg[NUM_QUITMESSAGES+1]= { [snip] // FinalDOOM? "fuck you, pussy!\nget the fuck out!", "you quit and i'll jizz\nin your cystholes!", "if you leave, i'll make\nthe lord drink my jizz.", "hey, ron! can we say\n'fuck' in the game?", "i'd leave: this is just\nmore monsters and levels.\nwhat a load.", "suck it down, asshole!\nyou're a fucking wimp!", "don't quit now! we're \nstill spending your money!", [snip] };

Old Post 07-22-12 16:07 #
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dew
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our army is professional now. i think gender mixed rooms aren't allowed in the basic training (first three months), but the buildings and even floors are shared. after that it's your own business what you do in your free time, the army doesn't own people any more. oh, we also don't have those big dormitories with 20+ bunkbeds anymore. welcome to the future.

Old Post 07-22-12 17:10 #
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Maes
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dew said:
our army is professional now. i think gender mixed rooms aren't allowed in the basic training (first three months), but the buildings and even floors are shared. after that it's your own business what you do in your free time, the army doesn't own people any more. oh, we also don't have those big dormitories with 20+ bunkbeds anymore. welcome to the future.


So nothing is different with how armies always -and still- operate: strict sex segregation for what regards intimacy/close contact with your fellow soldiers, professional or not, while in the living quarters.

Still, "professional" doesn't mean that automatically every pro grunt is transformed into a spit & polish officer cadet in his own private or small team room or cabin. There are still a lot of ugly aspects of living with even 4-5 other people in a room (if you ever did that, you'd know), being between "colleagues" just gives you a better chance that most people won't be total troglodytes, but nothing is certain, pro or not.

The fact that a WWI-like conflict is no longer plausible, where an army of hundreds of thousands of conscripts would have to live toe-to-toe in rat-infested trenches, perhaps made the idea of women serving more acceptable. Still, they are effectively segregated from front-line combat in EVERY army, with the major exception of fighter jet or attack helicopter pilots (but you could call those "noble" fighting post). But you won't find female assault troopers in ANY army, even those that have professional AND female soldiers. They usually end up in logistics, combat medics etc.

The funny thing is that feminist groups have pressured for women to have the same level of access to professional military, but none ever advocated equal conscription duties for women ;-)

Old Post 07-22-12 17:55 #
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Belial
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Maes said:
But you won't find female assault troopers in ANY army, even those that have professional AND female soldiers.

Jews disagree.

Old Post 07-22-12 20:50 #
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Maes
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Belial said:

Jews disagree.



But do they have coed showers where they slap their fellow soldiers' bare butts with towels?

Old Post 07-22-12 20:59 #
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hex11
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It's not just about sexuality, when it comes to women not being given infantry MOS. Sexuality does play a part, and it's a big distraction risk that the military cannot afford, but it's not the only reason. The fact is: men are a lot stronger physically, and this is important when it comes time to hump your ass 25 miles with 70+ pounds of gear (alice pack + weapons, ammo, flak jacket, etc.) The risk is women won't be able to keep up, and will fall out of formation and then become a burden to the rest of their unit. It's a stupid risk to take, because there is no reward for taking it. There's already plenty enough of men willing to do the dirty grunt work, and anyway it's not the kind of life most women would enjoy. Hell, it's not the kind of life most of you here would enjoy.

Old Post 07-22-12 22:07 #
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Maes
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Plus there's the obvious question of what would happen to women prisoners captured in combat, especially if the other side was much less sensitive to women's rights in general and had totally incompatible values.

Can you imagine an USA female POW in the hands of the Taliban or another Muslim enemy, for instance? (Other than in extreme erotica, please).

Some of the men who apply for service will the very least try to envision themselves in such a situation, and foresee the very least severe beatings and tortures in case of capture. How many women are ready to envision themselves in that position, with the added complication that they will be certainly be raped to death for being The Enemy AND women?

Another reason why Higher Commands in general try and keep women away from roles where this is an actual possibility. A radar operator or jet fighter pilot certainly don't have as many chances of ending up a POW as a foot soldier in enemy territory.

Old Post 07-22-12 22:19 #
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myk
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Aliotroph? said:
This is just a couple of programmers having a laugh because they managed to sneak in a word they normally wouldn't be permitted to use.
Jokes are only good in context, so that supposed joke goes into many situations where the context is lost or makes it unfunny. It's normally frowned upon, as you noted, because it may be associated to sexism. Thus your conclusion only applies under interpretation, as a result, people are wary of these "jokes". Acting like we're in an intimate or private environment when things are meant for the public is what's retarded. You don't make any joke anywhere and pretend everyone will get it and most jokes aren't innocent. We don't all live in Clownworld.


It's no different than when we used to turn our handwriting practice into a practice for improvising pictures of penises and boobs in grade 3.
Haha, so professional programmers are supposed to behave like they're eight years old?


hex11 said:
The fact is: men are a lot stronger physically, and this is important when it comes time to hump your ass 25 miles with 70+ pounds of gear (alice pack + weapons, ammo, flak jacket, etc.) The risk is women won't be able to keep up, and will fall out of formation and then become a burden to the rest of their unit.
That would imply there's no measure for how much each combatant can carry, which would make many men have that problem as well. If women carry the weights they are capable of carrying, they'd have no problem because they do not in general have less endurance than men. The fact is you're just used to whatever is done in your country and repeat justifications for it out of habit.


Maes said:
Can you imagine an USA female POW in the hands of the Taliban or another Muslim enemy, for instance? (Other than in extreme erotica, please).
Can you imagine an USA male POW in the hands of the Taliban or another Muslim enemy, for instance? (Other than mind-crippling torture, please).

The main reason women are special there is when we think their pussies are our property. It's the same reaction that makes a father very protective and concerned when their 15 year old daughter is going out at night.

Old Post 07-23-12 00:19 #
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Aliotroph?
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myk said:
Haha, so professional programmers are supposed to behave like they're eight years old?


Yes. So should most other people. Cultures have far too many taboos for their own good.

Old Post 07-23-12 01:12 #
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hex11
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It's not a theory myk, it's my direct experience from active duty USMC. During battallion-wide training exercices, the majority of WM's fell out of humps. Ditto with PT runs and other strenuous physical activity. They don't even go through the same boot camp regime as men, because doing so would mean lowering the standards across the board. The fact is: if they had to go through the same shit as men do to even finish boot camp, hardly none of them would make it, which means the whole WM program would become cost-ineffective. They're not going to let 99% of those recruits fail, just to satisfy the wishes of "equal opportunitists" so that some wunderwoman or two can graduate every 3 months (and even that might be hoping too much...)

Btw, it's not just stamina. Grunts also need raw power and strength, because you have to hump the 50-cal machine gun up the hill, carry mortar baseplates and spare barrels for the M60, climb over walls, load/unload heavy-ass equipment from vehicles, and all that fun stuff. Oh, and yeah you also have to be able to carry your injured, possibly for miles, to an evac site.

And if you don't believe me (probably because you got brainwashed by this "equal opportunity everywhere" crap), then by all means do enlist and see for yourself. I promise that you'll change your tune very quickly when those nice ideas hit the hard wall of cold, harsh reality.

Old Post 07-23-12 01:55 #
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Sodaholic
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myk said:
We don't all live in Clownworld.

Yes, we do, liar!

http://i.imgur.com/WVPqS.png

Old Post 07-23-12 02:02 #
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myk
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Haha!


hex11 said:
And if you don't believe me (probably because you got brainwashed by this "equal opportunity everywhere" crap), then by all means do enlist and see for yourself. I promise that you'll change your tune very quickly when those nice ideas hit the hard wall of cold, harsh reality.
Enlist where, in the US military... or the Israeli defense forces?

Old Post 07-23-12 02:10 #
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hex11
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Try this outfit, they'll set your head straight:
http://www.legion-etrangere.com/

Old Post 07-23-12 02:24 #
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Maes
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myk said:
That would imply there's no measure for how much each combatant can carry, which would make many men have that problem as well.


Hold yer horses. Many armies have standards for height and general physical fitness for male candidates. Yet if they were to be applied verbatim to women, most would be considered unfit for service on height considerations alone (being shorter on average), and physical strength/endurance soon thereafter.

E.g. being the gunner/loader of a Leopard 2 MBT requires being able to lift ammunition weighing up to 25 kg.

How many women are seriously able to do that even a single time? If you look at what types of women serve in the army most of them are pretty normal/average types, not amazons or bulldykes. Yeah, I'm aware several men would have trouble doing it consistently too, but at least you can fix that with suitable PT for most of them.

Another thing I never quite understood is how certain minimum physical traits are apparently waived for women, when in theory those limits were set there so that everybody could do the same tasks. How e.g. a man's minimum acceptable height is set to 1.70 m but 1.65 m is considered OK if the soldier is a woman. I mean, if the reason the limit was set was actually height-specific, what waives it for women? Can they somehow compensate for it in a different way I'm not aware of?

It seems to me that acceptance in the army for women (professional branches only, of course. I've never seen them pine for conscription) has been really forced down everybody's throat. No wonder certain higher ups show their malcontent about it whenever possible.

Old Post 07-23-12 09:21 #
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printz
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HEY! What about tall, strong women? They don't have to necessarily be testosterone-full either, though it may help.

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Old Post 07-23-12 09:27 #
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Maes
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Maes said:
If you look at what types of women serve in the army most of them are pretty normal/average types, not amazons or bulldykes.


I'll add that many of those I've seen in my time were quite the airheads/bimbos. If it wasn't for the uniform, you'd think they spent their days at a hairdresser or a cafeteria.

Old Post 07-23-12 09:30 #
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Siggi
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I can understand that most people would see this as making a mountain out of a molehill, however given the context it's not as silly as it seems.

I think that when programmers contribute something to the open source community, the source code they create represents their work. This is definitely the case when a big company like Microsoft prepares some code to be released as open source. Now if you're Microsoft, you're going to want to maintain a certain level of professionalism. Puerile jokes certainly do not qualify as professional. Even without considering the possible sexist connotations, I can see why Microsoft would want to produce an apology for this situation as well as amend it.

The joke itself is pretty minor, but it's still sexist. Expected or not, it shouldn't really happen in a professional environment. When I studied for my Computer Science Degree, the few woman we had studying with us were expected to be thick skinned or get treated like "one of the guys". It really is no surprise they don't find it a welcoming environment.

Old Post 07-23-12 17:30 #
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Maes
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Siggi said:
Now if you're Microsoft, you're going to want to maintain a certain level of professionalism.


Sorry, but coders are pretty much the IT equivalent of construction workers. I wouldn't expect the construction workers that built my house to avoid swearing like, well, construction workers and make salty humour all day. Why not, even leaving a "dirty" graffiti somewhere where normally you wouldn't poke without tearing the house down.

Old Post 07-23-12 19:49 #
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dew
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Maes said:
Sorry, but coders are pretty much the IT equivalent of construction workers.

manly immigrants muscled from lifting heavy tools and material, tanned from standing in direct sunlight all day, most probably uneducated. yeah, that's totally like the fat sweaty pale nerds you're probably thinking of... and regarding the salty humour, your IT coders would probably look down all flushed and silent if a woman passed by, whereas your construction workers would yell profanities and whistle at her. there, i'm doing your stereotyping for you!

Old Post 07-23-12 19:57 #
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Maes
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They look different, but their place within their industry/sector is that of the lowly implementors/techs. Even if it takes quite a lot of qualifications to be even a junior programmer, it still is at the lowest rank of IT (well...maybe just above help desks ;-)

Old Post 07-23-12 20:21 #
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Belial
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Maes said:
Sorry, but coders are pretty much the IT equivalent of construction workers. I wouldn't expect the construction workers that built my house to avoid swearing like, well, construction workers and make salty humour all day. Why not, even leaving a "dirty" graffiti somewhere where normally you wouldn't poke without tearing the house down.

Is this retarded analogy supposed to convince us that we should accept lowering professional standards for 'basic' tasks?

The graffiti in Microsoft's code was on the front wall by the way.

Old Post 07-24-12 00:34 #
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Maes
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Since when is the source code "the front wall"? Just because it's easy to unscrew a device's cover to access its guts, it doesn't mean everybody should do it ;-)

Oh and

code:
char* endmsg[NUM_QUITMESSAGES+1]= { [snip] // FinalDOOM? "fuck you, pussy!\nget the fuck out!", "you quit and i'll jizz\nin your cystholes!", "if you leave, i'll make\nthe lord drink my jizz.", "hey, ron! can we say\n'fuck' in the game?", "i'd leave: this is just\nmore monsters and levels.\nwhat a load.", "suck it down, asshole!\nyou're a fucking wimp!", "don't quit now! we're \nstill spending your money!", [snip] };


Code cleanup? Was ist das? :-p

Old Post 07-24-12 00:39 #
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Gez
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The "front wall" is the signature used by Linux applications wanting to connect to Windows through Hyper-V. Most people have never heard of Hyper-V before. I know I didn't; and even after looking it up on Wikipedia I still don't care about it.

As a proof, the architecture has existed since 2008 and it has taken four years for people to see that "front wall" and deem it a horrible sexist offense which is really an important issue (contrarily to everything that actually matters and actually has an influence over people's lives).

Old Post 07-24-12 01:15 #
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hex11
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Didn't used to be like that back in the good old days. Anyone who knew how to program (even just batch files or shell scripts) was a genius - to be respected, and also feared. Now you don't even get a second glance. Pretty soon we'll be asking if they want a side of fries with their database code... ;-)

Old Post 07-24-12 02:35 #
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SYS
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Maes said:


Dunno if the "problem" as such exist only in the open source community, but it's well known that programming is one of those jobs traditionally associated with males who place social skills on a second -or a third- level.

HR departments deal with socially inept applicants all day long. You could be best coder out of all the candidates, but you will lose out every occasion to someone that can interact with human beings. Socially inept programmer and misogyny go hand-in-hand.


hex11 said:
I promise that you'll change your tune very quickly when those nice ideas hit the hard wall of cold, harsh reality.
Of rape?

Old Post 07-24-12 08:36 #
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SYS said:

Of rape?



Don't you know? civilians will never know the harsh reality of war or something. Like a mother's son dying and not coming back home. she's just a civilian.

I'm so sick of hearing this shit. Military people are not any "higher up" than a civilian nor should they be. They deserve the same justice as a civilian,as well. This mentality is bad and opens up doors for this discriminatory BS that the US is now finally acknowledging.

Old Post 07-24-12 08:44 #
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printz
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dew said:
that's totally like the fat sweaty pale nerds you're probably thinking of...
Why the fuck you and others keep associating computer nerds with unwashed fat people? What about skinny people with no muscles?

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Old Post 07-24-12 08:44 #
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Maes
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printz said:
Why the fuck you and others keep associating computer nerds with unwashed fat people? What about skinny people with no muscles?


http://catb.org/jargon/html/appearance.html

http://catb.org/jargon/html/demographics.html

Last edited by Maes on 07-24-12 at 12:05

Old Post 07-24-12 10:06 #
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