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hex11
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SYS said:

Of rape?



None of the stuff I addressed was sexuality-related. No cigar for you...

Old Post 07-24-12 12:01 #
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Siggi
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Maes said:
I wouldn't expect the construction workers that built my house to avoid swearing like, well, construction workers and make salty humour all day. Why not, even leaving a "dirty" graffiti somewhere where normally you wouldn't poke without tearing the house down.

Sorry, but this comparison just doesn't stick.

Although I wouldn't go as far as saying that the code in question is Microsoft's front wall, it is a part of work produced by Microsoft. It shouldn't be considered as somewhere where normally you wouldn't poke without tearing the house down. In an open source program there is no equivalent to tearing the house down, as the house is provided torn down. Construction workers swearing or making dirty jokes is similarly not relevant, as it has no effect on the work they produce.

Your comparison only makes sense if you consider the source code to be unseen, which it simply isn't.

Also, the code examples from Doom's source are merely more examples of how common this sort of thing is in the open source community.

Old Post 07-24-12 13:05 #
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printz
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Siggi said:

Also, the code examples from Doom's source are merely more examples of how common this sort of thing is in the open source community.

People get frustrated sometimes. I see no trouble and don't feel like it's gonna bite me in the ass if I leave profanities in my code, thank you very much. Be a man and deal with it.

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Old Post 07-24-12 13:14 #
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Maes
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Fine. Create a society for the "Decency and Modesty in Source Code Commentary" and everything will be fine and dandy.

Old Post 07-24-12 13:28 #
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Siggi
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printz said:
Be a man and deal with it.

You apparently don't seem to understand that there's an image associated with the appearance of one's code. Looking through someone's code and seeing profanities everywhere gives one a very poor impression of the code's author. Additionally, if a woman who was interested in working on an open source program with you found many immature sexist references in your code, it would be no surprise at all when she reconsiders.

Old Post 07-24-12 13:35 #
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printz
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Not profanities everywhere, just where a hack had to be used or where the programmer didn't really master the concept but had to rush it :P

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Old Post 07-24-12 13:45 #
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Maes
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Siggi said:
Additionally, if a woman who was interested in working on an open source program with you found many immature sexist references in your code, it would be no surprise at all when she reconsiders.


Doesn't matter, John Romero will make the bitch suck it down.

Old Post 07-24-12 14:05 #
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hex11
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I worked with some women who would be likely to put profanities in the code. Well the one who knew how to program anyway, the others were in QA but yeah the druken sailor language was used a lot...

Old Post 07-24-12 15:33 #
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Maes
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hex11 said:
I worked with some women who would be likely to put profanities in the code. Well the one who knew how to program anyway, the others were in QA but yeah the druken sailor language was used a lot...


In Engineering there's a saying: "There are no women in Engineering". This may contraddict the common misperception that there are some women in Engineering, but upon closer analysis, the truth is revealed: the women that manage to become engineers are no longer women.

Old Post 07-24-12 16:02 #
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Gez
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Maes said:
the women that manage to become engineers are no longer women.


Now, this is actually sexist, in that it enforces preconceived notion of what muliebrity is, and denies non-conforming women their womanhood.

Old Post 07-24-12 16:52 #
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dew
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what? only women with a degree in engineering fart and swear and talk about their period! (btw, i've never heard that saying. i'm probably in different engineering...)

Old Post 07-24-12 17:07 #
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Maes
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The actual quote's meaning is closest to "the women that manage to become engineers, by the time they finally become engineers, have become more like men". This is pretty much a required trait for women to survive in mostly male-denominated trades, wheter blue or white collar, and by no means exclusive to engineering.

This includes being able to "swallow" the odd sexist joke, BTW, otherwise every step you take in the trade will be a world of butthurt.

Now, since open source isn't exactly a trade but more of a hobby, and there's no economic incentive to stay in it, no wonder very few women are willing to toughen up and put up with the status quo. Probably explains why you don't see women in other similar hobbies: a hobby isn't bearable anymore if you have to swallow down a lot of perceived insults. A job, maybe, by necessity or hopes of maybe moving on one day. But a hobby? Never.

Old Post 07-24-12 18:16 #
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SYS
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hex11 said:


None of the stuff I addressed was sexuality-related. No cigar for you...



*lights cigar*


hex11 said:
It's not just about sexuality, when it comes to women not being given infantry MOS. Sexuality does play a part, and it's a big distraction risk that the military cannot afford, but it's not the only reason.

Old Post 07-25-12 00:38 #
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Siggi
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Maes said:
very few women are willing to toughen up and put up with the status quo.

I realise it's the status quo, but woman shouldn't have to toughen up. So what's normal at the moment is flawed. Defending it by saying "that's just how it is" is also flawed. I see nothing wrong in pointing that out and wanting it to change.

Old Post 07-25-12 11:34 #
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hex11
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SYS said:


*lights cigar*




In other words: "The stuff I'm about to talk about is NOT related to sexuality".

The way you focus on sexuality so much, I'm very surprised that you didn't take the cigar quote as some kind of penis metaphor. Or maybe you did and are enjoying your "cigar". Well whatever floats your boat, it's none of my business. ;-)

Old Post 07-25-12 12:27 #
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printz
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Siggi said:

I realise it's the status quo, but woman shouldn't have to toughen up. So what's normal at the moment is flawed. Defending it by saying "that's just how it is" is also flawed. I see nothing wrong in pointing that out and wanting it to change.

Are the majority of programming hobbyists bordering on misogynistic? Is the correlation so strong between "write code in my free time" and "don't want to meet people in my free time"?

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Old Post 07-25-12 12:33 #
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hex11
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I don't think so, but maybe it depends on what kind of project you're in (they're definitely not all the same). Also, prefering solitude doesn't imply hating women. I like my piece and quiet, because being around a lot of people (male or female) all the time is very distracting, and most of the things I enjoy require some level of focus.

Old Post 07-25-12 13:04 #
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SYS
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hex11 said:


The way you focus on sexuality so much, I'm very surprised that you didn't take the cigar quote as some kind of penis metaphor. Or maybe you did and are enjoying your "cigar". Well whatever floats your boat, it's none of my business. ;-)

Cigar very much in the literal sense. Seeing as you're the one fixated on both penile metaphor and fellatio it is very evident that whole "Don't ask, don't tell" policy is working out for you.

Old Post 07-25-12 22:09 #
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hex11
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Guess what? You're wrong again, what a surprise. ;-) DADT policy is no longer in effect. I haven't been in the military for many years now. Gay/lesbian issues were never something I cared about in the first place, one way or another. Keep jumping to conclusions, it's almost entertaining (not really, even masturbating would be more productive than reading your posts). I guess you're just begging for me to ignore you, so if that's your wish, consider it granted.

Old Post 07-25-12 23:44 #
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dew
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hex11 said:
DADT policy is no longer in effect. I haven't been in the military for many years now.

so you have no connection to the military after it got rid of that silly policy, therefore your educated opinions are not as educated as you present them to be. gg.

Old Post 07-26-12 00:57 #
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hex11
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Why make that assumption?... I actually left many years before that policy was repealed. But that gay/lesbian policy has nothing whatsoever to do with women not being allowed in grunt units, or my life experiences as an enlisted marine. The topic of my post (before someone cried "rape" to derail the thread) was the relative physical performance between men and women. That's what you should be replying to me about, not that other emotional-based nonsense. And there are other aspects too, which nobody brought up yet, like for example the fact that a population that loses a lot of women in combat takes a much longer time to revert back to their original numbers, compared to a loss mostly composed of men. It's really not any coincidence that the males traditionally take on the roles of hunters and warriors...

Old Post 07-26-12 01:50 #
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SYS
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hex11 said:
Also, prefering solitude doesn't imply hating women. I like my piece and quiet, because being around a lot of people (male or female) all the time is very distracting, and most of the things I enjoy require some level of focus.


hex11 said:
(not really, even masturbating would be more productive than reading your posts). I guess you're just begging for me to ignore you, so if that's your wish, consider it granted.
Because threatening someone with the loss of your attention and audience is such an effective tactic of persuasion. Since you're ignoring me now, enjoy your "productive session of solitude." It's very important not to lose focus.

Old Post 07-26-12 03:04 #
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Sodaholic
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This thread seems kinda 'meh' now, mostly devolved into petty arguments. Barely even on the original subject of whether it's okay or not to have raunchy jokes in code.

Old Post 07-26-12 03:20 #
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Krispy
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A thread got off topic? What else is new?

Old Post 07-26-12 05:36 #
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Maes
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Sodaholic said:
Barely even on the original subject of whether it's okay or not to have raunchy jokes in code.


Of course it is. Those that can't take them are pussies.

Old Post 07-26-12 08:38 #
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Technician
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Maes said:
Of course it is. Those that can't take them are pussies.
Literally or figuratively?

Old Post 07-26-12 08:43 #
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Maes
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Technician said:
Literally or figuratively?


Figuratively. Some literal ones are not as figurative as some non-literal ones.

Old Post 07-26-12 09:55 #
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udderdude
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If you go through life cowering in terror in fear of offending anyone, you're gonna be pretty fucking bored. Walking on eggshells gets pretty damn boring, and you never know what's going to set someone off anyway, so fuck it. Offend away.

Old Post 08-01-12 18:27 #
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killer2
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I can't believe some people find this to be sexist or offensive!

First, if it was meant to be offensive, why would it be using decimal instead of alphabetical? Very few people would even notice it. Hence, it's more of an easter egg than anything meant to offend someone.

Second, how in hell is this sexist? Last time I checked, sexism is something directly referring to a certain sex, whilst both women and men have boobs. The sexism argument makes no sense here.

Third, even if the word was "vagina" in decimal, that still wouldn't be sexist. Why? Because sexism refers to a certain sex in a derogatory or insulting manner. The name of a body part isn't sexist if there is no context (otherwise, all biology books would be sexist).

Lastly, to everyone who feels offended by this, I'll leave you with this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgxmPsHR3AM

Old Post 09-03-12 11:32 #
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pilottobombadier
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Personally, I think this whole concept of people not having to toughen up because they don't have a penis - or do - is utter bullshit. You adapt to whatever environment you think you need to be in. It does not adapt to you.

The army is a perfect example.

There are strength and endurance requirements that absolutely must be met. There are psychological and skill requirements that must be met. Never mind the guts under the hood.

The same goes for every place that you choose to work. If you aren't the boss, if you don't own the show, you're just an actor. Stop being a diva and suck it the fuck up.

I'm not saying that certain considerations don't need to be taken, but to insist that the culture needs to change because you're a pretensious self-important git is totally laughable.

If I were to work in an office dominated by female culture, I'd put up with the same kind of crap, only sneakier - which, in my thinking, is much more insidious. But if that's the environment I choose to work in, so be it. Politics don't effect me, so I probably won't be in that environment for very long, but I'm not going to knock it because it's not the scene that I want it to be.

If it matters so much, strike out on your own. Software development is pretty flexible like that.

That's my take on it.

Old Post 09-03-12 15:59 #
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