I'm sorry to see some South Africans were caught in the crossfire, I hope they're in a better place now. :'(
In other news anti Islamic adverts are due to hit New York soon, the people responsible for these are a hate group fronted by Pamela Geller (I did a quick google search on her and it turns out she is Jewish Zionist). These definitely won't fuel more hatred between Americans and Muslims, no, no they won't.
cannonball said: To put my over the top view across I put the analogy (sorry if some people don't get this). If a Liverpool supporter says to a Man United supporter that Alex Ferguson is a twat, the Man United supporter would subsequently nuke Liverpool reducing it to rubble.
Isn't that what football firms do, more or less? Well, minus the nukes, but they surely like to knock some teeth out.
Come think of it, the seriousness some people take their football in is the closest thing to religious fanaticism one can find in the West. Most religious sects WISH they had so devout disciples, and it's the closest thing to Islam's mentality one can find in the West.
Few would kill over e.g a caricature of Christ, but plenty would kill (or at least gladly send somebody to the hospital) for sporting the wrong colors in the wrong place, let alone badmouthing their team. Not even the most extreme backwater USA-based Christian sects come close to the rage and hatred a pissed-off hooligan can express over a football team.
cannonball said: This really is getting ridiculous. I commented on an article where the US has put out a public apology broadcasted in Pakistan. Sorry but seriously why should all of the western world have to apologise for the actions of a couple of people and frankly the reaction over this is absurd.
To put my over the top view across I put the analogy (sorry if some people don't get this). If a Liverpool supporter says to a Man United supporter that Alex Ferguson is a twat, the Man United supporter would subsequently nuke Liverpool reducing it to rubble.
It is a small low budget film which really should not have caused such a reaction (insert conspiracy theory here). Seriously some people in fact in this case religion should chill the hell out.
The problem is that all of these images are meant to piss off Muslims be degrading Muhammad. Freedom of Speech isn't a pass for you to be a dick. Telling them to suck it up doesn't work when it's perceived as a deliberate attack by another religious group, in this case Christians.
Even if you paint this particular incident as a pretext for going all batshit insane and butthurt on long-standing wrongs and injustices, that's still well within the scope of what I said: it takes literally nothing for them to explode, and in particular they take religion a bit too damn fucking seriously.
Not that these outbursts help anyone: the very first victims are usually Muslims themselves, and on the ground of their own countries. A movie gets shot in the USA (presumably), and some poor random-ass Rashid, Ali or Mustafa dies 10000 miles away on his own soil, without having anything to do with the movie at all. Explain that.
The rally for the movie was just an excuse for the religious organizations (mostly Salafi types) to make a scene. Random people are being killed because Salafi-types have a very narrow definition of "Muslim" (it's usually "they follow my religious beliefs"), so your average joe can be targeted under the assumption that they're heretics because they don't follow Salafi beliefs.
Today I realised Muhammad's actions sound very much like what the Bible describes what an antichrist does. Then I also found the internet is filled with pages that say Muhammad is an antichrist and a false prophet.
Shouldn't that be more offensive than depicting him only as some random bully or whatever? Pretty sure all those pages have been around much longer than that new video.
According to Albert Speer, Hitler stated in private, "The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?"
The reverse was/is also true. Mein Kampf is still a bestseller in many Muslim countries, where there are no "Holocaust denial" laws, and most Arabs still consider Hitler and Germany in WW2 as a savior against British and Zionist oppression.
And I who had thought of starting up a business of pre-built concrete minarets, specially designed for quick erection and deployment during Islamization. Would it be legal in the USA or closed down because promoting terrorism?
The more I read about the Muslim reaction to this trivial affair, the more my mind says "so what".
Get thicker skins I say, it takes a lot to make me cry personally. Muslims may whine that their 'feelings' are hurt in all of this, and think they have some holy right to murder people as a result. The whole thing is ridiculous, and what we ought to do is simply withhold the foreign aid we give these countries and then see how 'offended' they are over such petty disputes.
Darkman 4 said: The problem is that all of these images are meant to piss off Muslims be degrading Muhammad. Freedom of Speech isn't a pass for you to be a dick. Telling them to suck it up doesn't work when it's perceived as a deliberate attack by another religious group, in this case Christians.
On the other hand, if they did suck it up, then such provocations would cease. The aim is indeed to rile them up, so if it weren't working, it would stop soon enough. They're only encouraging shit-stirrers to persevere.
Maes said: The reverse was/is also true. Mein Kampf is still a bestseller in many Muslim countries, where there are no "Holocaust denial" laws
I find it quite troubling that so many Muslims seem to equate anti-denial laws with anti-blasphemy laws, and requesting that insults against Islam be outlawed "because denying the Holocaust is outlawed, too". Apples and oranges.
This is a show which started very recently on the BBC. I haven't watched it myself, but it's first episode collected 185 complaints from Muslims, who said it was insulting to their religion.
Incase they hadn't noticed... THE GUY WHO CREATED THE SHOW IS FUCKING MUSLIM!
I think Muslims just take offence for the sake of something to do. It's total bullshit and I personally, when seeing stuff like this, am glad to call myself an atheist.
Very true, I would have to plead ignorant to the details of differences in the Islamic community just like Christianity.
In the end we all have values and beliefs. We as individual are different from each other and should respect and acknowledge peoples values and beliefs. Unless they are totally ridiculous. Islam is not in this category, it is a recognised religion which deep down I believe teaches ethics which are pretty similar to Christianity. I really do not believe that they really believe that violence is key. I just wish that everyone would just get along, despite what differences we have. What's the point. There's no point to hate someone unless there is a truly rational reason. Or am I living a drunken pipedream.
Islam is not in this category, it is a recognised religion which deep down I believe teaches ethics which are pretty similar to Christianity.[/B]
The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.
Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.
Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's many calls to violence according to what their own moral preconceptions find justificable. Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.
I feel justified yet disgusted with myself at the same time
Doom Juan said: Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.
Most religious ideologies aside from just Islam are pretty terrible if taken seriously, so I think it boils down to both bad ideology AND bad people. It's okay for someone to culturally belong to a religious ideology as long as they don't take it seriously.
Muslims should be 'hypocrites' in that context and should be okay with it as well as fully embrace it. If they follow their religion in such a way that they take jihad seriously, they have no place in western society or the 21st century.
Found an article written by a Syrian where he bitterly remarked that except for some mild official condemnations, nobody in the Muslim world cared at all for the brutal slaughter of entire populations in his country by a bloodthirsty dictator. But a bad movie that nobody would pay to watch? Instant street-filler. "Ah, if only Syria was a movie", he wrote.
Just for the sake of balance, here's some Spaniards rioting because they couldn't get into a music festival. 60 injured, luckily no deaths. People are stupid, violent herd animals everywhere and are happy to cause destruction for no reason at all. How about last year's riots in Vancouver because a hockey team lost a game? The London riots last year with mass looting and arson? Sure, religion is a load of pish and doesn't help, but the fact is, human beings are scum in general.
Let's not forget that religion allows well-meaning people to do things that they would otherwise never think of. Removing it might not prevent wicked people from doing these sorts of things, true, but it would remove what is without question the greatest amplifier of hatred, stupidity, and violence known to man.