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Sodaholic
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Wow, this engine fucking sucks.

Old Post 10-01-12 15:26 #
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Dragonsbrethren
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LkMax said:


There's a SDL version. Despite it being a beta release, I've never had any problem playing it. Looking again for a download link I found this one: http://www.veracottis.co.uk/EOD4SDL_BETA.zip see if it works, I don't remember If I downloaded from there.

Also, there's 2 SDL versions of Spear Ressurrection (another great wolf3d mod) that can be found on the official website: http://www.areyep.com/RIPandMCS-Spearres-Main.html Be sure to play the "ORIGINAL MAPS" before the "NEW MAPS" if you never played SR before.


Oh, cool. The last time I looked into it (which, admittedly, was probably several years ago), nothing seemed to be happening with the mod. I'll have to check those out one of these days.

Old Post 10-01-12 17:48 #
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Dr. Durr
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You don't even need ECWolf do to awesome stuff in the Wolf3D engine. There is actually a guide on how to make teleporters in Wolf4SDL.

I actually thought about using it to make a weird FPS I had started with the Wolf3D engine, but after seeing peoples opinions on RGM, I might go back to learning to code for Wolf3D. Just learned how to make a sky BG, and am reading a tutorial on how to make ceiling sprites, so I can make clouds to go with it.

Old Post 10-01-12 21:12 #
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ComicMischief
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Gez said:


ZDoom is under some non-commercial licenses; but if you use a GPL port as a base instead, then you can perfectly well create some commercial stuff.

Heck, you could take GZDoom, remove the OPL emulator (MAME license), remove the entire software renderer (bits of Build license), claim the original Doom/Heretic/Hexen code is the GPL version, and acquire from Firelight the "Casual 'Low Budget'" license (it's $500) and you could then legally sell a small indie game based on your GZDoom fork.



Going back to quote this and ask: how would someone with no coding knowledge go about this? Are there completely GPL ports, thus removing the fucking around with code?

I'm a dumbass here, I know it. Not my area. Generating the content is.

Old Post 10-01-12 21:59 #
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Gez
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ComicMischief said:
Are there completely GPL ports, thus removing the fucking around with code?

Yes. Most of them are, actually. Basically, any port that isn't derived from ZDoom can be assumed to be GPL. Unless you go digging for super-obscure ports that were long dead before the 20th century made way for the 21st, that should be a safe assumption.

GPL ports include, among others, Doomsday, EDGE, Eternity, and Remood; all of which have content definition languages allowing you to create the original content for your hypothetical game in a much cleaner, clearer, and more convenient way than having to monkey around with DeHackEd.

Old Post 10-01-12 22:10 #
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ComicMischief
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I used EDGE way back when in the early 2000's, sounds good. I remember DDFs being a piece of cake to use, although the scripting never interested me (I like things to be straightforward).

Thanks for the prompt response. I'd apologise for derailing, but the topic is of making one's own FPS game... ;)

Old Post 10-01-12 22:13 #
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Blzut3
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Dr. Durr said:
You don't even need ECWolf do to awesome stuff in the Wolf3D engine. There is actually a guide on how to make teleporters in Wolf4SDL

Of course I would not recommend using Wolf4SDL for modding if ECWolf suits the needs just fine. With ECWolf you get automatic compatibility with the big three OSs, wide/tall screen support, aspect ratio correction, mixed resolution texture support, non-square, non-power of two, and/or mixed sized levels, a decent control scheme, unlimited save slots, the list goes on. Even if ECWolf doesn't immediately suit your needs, you could still modify its source code and if the feature is done cleanly enough you can even submit it upstream for others to use.

Old Post 10-01-12 22:48 #
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Dragonsbrethren
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Dr. Durr said:
There is actually a guide on how to make teleporters in Wolf4SDL.

Yeah, but you need to recompile the engine to add almost all of the non-vanilla features it supports out of the box. So every mod will still come with its own executable. Which is dumb. Imagine if every Doom wad that added a single custom thing came with its own executable.

Old Post 10-02-12 00:17 #
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188DarkRevived
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Dragonsbrethren said:
End of Destiny is particularly bad and in need of a conversion because it runs terribly in DOSBox. No matter what I do, I can't get that mod to run at a reasonable framerate. The only way I was able to play it was on XP with VDMSound.

I couldn't run it with a decent framerate in DosBox either, hence the exact reason of why I'm hoping for it to get ported to something else. The original authors of the mod are even more eager than me to witness Wolf3D living in the modern day, so they are absolutely willing and searching for new things to upgrade and port it to.


LkMax said:
There's a SDL version. Despite it being a beta release, I've never had any problem playing it. Looking again for a download link I found this one: http://www.veracottis.co.uk/EOD4SDL_BETA.zip see if it works, I don't remember If I downloaded from there.
Also, there's 2 SDL versions of Spear Ressurrection (another great wolf3d mod) that can be found on the official website: http://www.areyep.com/RIPandMCS-Spearres-Main.html Be sure to play the "ORIGINAL MAPS" before the "NEW MAPS" if you never played SR before.


I'll definitely try the SDL version of EOD once it becomes fully-tested and official.
As for Spear Ressurection, I have the regular version of that and it runs smoothly under DosBox, unlike the sequel.


Dragonsbrethren said:
Oh look, yet another "everything modern is bad (and everything during my childhood was great)" post. Your loss.

There's not much to be gained from the latest titles, unfortunately. The majority of them become "outdated and forsaken" at such an alarming rate that the quantity of mods which are created for them would probably never surpass the enormous quantity of mods that games like DOOM and Wolf3D and Quake were able to accumulate during their long-lasting reigns.

Last edited by 188DarkRevived on 10-02-12 at 03:10

Old Post 10-02-12 02:58 #
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sgt dopey
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Gez said:
Who cares. 40 textures? Big whoop. Wolf has 64. Five enemies? Let's see in Wolf: Dog, Guard, SS, Officer, Mutant, Fake Hitler, that's five already and I haven't added the four Pac-Man ghosts or the six bosses. (Not even counting the Spear of Destiny enemies here.)

No, if I wanted to make a game on a Wolf 3D-like engine, I'd look here. Five enemies? How about unlimited enemies? If you want, say, 1275 different monsters, the only thing stopping you is your patience coding them in. Six weapons? Likewise, you can have hundreds of weapons and the only thing that'll make you remain at a reasonable number is sanity, if you have any. Floors, doors, etc., whatever -- there's no hardcoded limits. And creating content is as easy as on ZDoom. And yes, pushwalls are there.



But can you sell it?

Old Post 10-02-12 06:46 #
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alterworldruler
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sgt dopey said:


But can you sell it?

Of course you can but first as Gez said earlier, remove the non-GPL code (build stuff in software renderer and the OPL emulator) and get the FMOD casual license ($500). How do you get the $500? It's really simple but for it to work, your mod (or rather game) needs to be far in late development so you can show tons of screenshots/videos to prove that contributing is worth it, a thing even many AAA developers today fail to do.

After you have tons of material to show, get the kickstarter going, spread it around various doom forums and even post the mod with the kickstarter link on moddb, then there is a chance it will work. Should you ask for too much, people will write you off. Should you give them too little time, it won't work.

Basically if you can get rid of the non-gpl code, chances are, you know how to design your game.

EDIT: If you can, provide a decent demo with the kickstarter for people to try out, even bigger chance of getting the casual fmod license funded AND maybe even steam greenlight entry cost.

Old Post 10-02-12 07:19 #
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Aliotroph?
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I hate it when software projects have half a dozen licenses attached for various parts. The nasty thing about ECWolf is it packages the original license Carmack attached to the Wolf3D code. My reading of that thing seems to indicate most projects violate it. If Wolf3D is GPLed then why is that ugly thing in there?

Old Post 10-02-12 07:36 #
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MSPaintR0cks
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Hey, that engine is pretty nice! If only the author would add WASD strafing...

Old Post 10-02-12 07:37 #
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sgt dopey
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MSPaintR0cks said:
Hey, that engine is pretty nice! If only the author would add WASD strafing...

I think* you can, you go to settings > Game settings and change it there

* I havn't tried it for myself yet

Old Post 10-02-12 07:54 #
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Blzut3
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Aliotroph? said:
If Wolf3D is GPLed then why is that ugly thing in there?

You have the option to compile under the GPL if you wish (will switch the MAME code to DosBox). I do this so it's your responsibility to take John Carmack's word that Wolf3D was released under the GPL despite no official re-release. The official binaries just use the original license.

I really don't care much what you do with the code. That's why all new code in it is under a BSD license. ;)

Old Post 10-02-12 12:34 #
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Phml
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Basically if you can get rid of the non-gpl code, chances are, you know how to design your game.


Programmers thinking ability to code translates to ability to do absolutely everything in the world are the #2 reason terrible video games are made.

You really do have summed it up in a nutshell. Confusing game design with technical ability is the worst mistake you can make and the most widespread mistake in the video game industry, especially in indie circles.

Last edited by Phml on 10-02-12 at 13:53

Old Post 10-02-12 13:42 #
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ComicMischief
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But hey, the inability to make even the most rudimentary program can be a real stumbling block for those who can do, like, everything else. Unfortunately, I have been in a position where a potential collaboration broke down completely due to a programmer's ego, and insistence that "the programmer is always correct and his opinions outweigh the requests of the dumbass artist". And yet, I'm always reminded of this:


"User requests are what computers are for!" - Dr. Walter Gibbs, Tron.


I could rant until the moon escapes orbit, but it will not change the fact that ultimately, a content-generator (musician, artist, animator, writer, et al) is useless here without an engine.

Incidentally, EDGE looks pretty sweet since a decade ago. Think I'm going with it, here.

Old Post 10-02-12 16:31 #
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Aliotroph?
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Blzut3 said:

You have the option to compile under the GPL if you wish (will switch the MAME code to DosBox). I do this so it's your responsibility to take John Carmack's word that Wolf3D was released under the GPL despite no official re-release. The official binaries just use the original license.

I really don't care much what you do with the code. That's why all new code in it is under a BSD license. ;)



That's a good idea, but I often wonder if the non-GPL license is permissive enough to permit you to really do anything with the code. Carmack's write-up from the day of release suggests it was meant to be, but the license is just terribly written.

Old Post 10-02-12 19:52 #
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LakiSoft
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THIS ENGINE PWNS DOOM 3 ENGINE U NOOBS! :P

Old Post 10-02-12 19:57 #
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Eris Falling
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I hope you're joking right now.

Old Post 10-02-12 19:58 #
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LakiSoft
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Of course! ID Tech 4 is used in Doom 3 and Quake 4. And also ID Tech 5 will use in new upcoming Doom 4. Uh, i can't wait for demo release. But for me: TNT Evilution PWNS Doom3, no by engine but by gameplay yes. :) I am serious now. The Doom3 never had same feel as a Doom 1 and Doom 2. Plus i got stuck on Level 3 and stop playing. :P

Old Post 10-02-12 20:03 #
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Eris Falling
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I, after some raging at zombies, made my way to Alpha Labs on the easiest setting. I felt so pro when I killed the Pinky :P

Doom 3 isn't terrible, in fact, I actually quite enjoy it, but it doesn't compare to the originals, not by a long-shot.

Old Post 10-02-12 20:06 #
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LakiSoft
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In Doom 3 monsters that appears as a regular guys in Doom 2 are fucking hard in Doom 3. :O But also we can make our own game on ID Tech 1. ;) Replaceing resources we got Freedoom, the ID Tech 1 game. ;)

Old Post 10-02-12 20:10 #
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esselfortium
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LakiSoft said:
In Doom 3 monsters that appears as a regular guys in Doom 2 are fucking hard in Doom 3. :O But also we can make our own game on ID Tech 1. ;) Replaceing resources we got Freedoom, the ID Tech 1 game. ;)

To "make your own game" would entail actually creating your own content, not just swapping out one set of readymade assets for another.

Old Post 10-02-12 20:13 #
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LakiSoft
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I 50% agree with you. But i am not so good at drawing. :P

Old Post 10-02-12 20:20 #
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188DarkRevived
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LakiSoft said:
TNT Evilution PWNS Doom3, no by engine but by gameplay yes. :) I am serious now. The Doom3 never had same feel as a Doom 1 and Doom 2. Plus i got stuck on Level 3 and stop playing. :P

I've got the exact same feel and situation. Technologically, DOOM3 was a marvel and a record-setting achievement in the evolution of FPS. But in terms of an actual non-frustrating and enjoyable gameplay experience it fails.
They should've just kept the Arachnotrons instead of adding Trites, and they should've programmed guns which didn't require so much frequent reloading of ammo, and they should've added more crates to dodge attacks.

Old Post 10-03-12 02:53 #
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LakiSoft
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I also downloaded somewhere fan made Doom 3 on Doom 2 engine IWAD. However i cannot send it here because contains some original Doom 2 resources. That will be warez if i do that. :(

Old Post 10-03-12 14:09 #
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Fiend
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I might take a look at this engine as soon as it allows you to open more than one door at a time.

But ecwolf is fucking awesome. Hadn't seen it until now. I liked wolf4sdl also, and it's nice to have another port with advancements that aren't "look at these MD2 models that look terrible in Wolfenstein."

Old Post 10-03-12 18:38 #
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Dragonsbrethren
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DarkJedi188 said:
they should've created better level architecture to dodge attacks.

FTFY. Crates are an abomination.

Old Post 10-03-12 20:06 #
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Dr. Durr
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After goofing around with the Reycaster Game Maker, I feel that if there were more than five enemies, control setup ingame, strafe toggle, and the ability to create endings like Wolf3D or Doom, it be an okay tool, but at this point it feels unfinished.

Old Post 10-06-12 17:07 #
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