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BuffGUh
huh?


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I got the impression from another thread that a lot of people weren't big fans of it here.


Obviously the engine feels dated, significantly more so than the original Doom despite coming out only a year before. And the level designs leave a lot to be desired (way way too many confusing mazes and same looking halls). Not to mention you couldn't turn on a dime, so the primary strategy was stepping slightly into the doorway, then retreating and waiting for the enemy to walk into your line of fire. Definitely not as fast-paced as Doom's gameplay.

So what's your guys's thoughts on Wolfenstein's place in history?

Old Post 11-16-12 10:47 #
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Jodwin
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It's a product of its time.

That's the most favorable thing I've got to say.

Old Post 11-16-12 11:31 #
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Bucket
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Yeah, it hasn't aged well. I might have played through the whole game back in 1993, when it was a novelty. Instead I just played through E1 a few dozen times. These days, I just can't bring myself to plod through 60 mazes.

Old Post 11-16-12 11:44 #
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DoomUK
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It was awesome until Doom.

Old Post 11-16-12 12:01 #
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Maes
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In retrospect, the gameplay and even the technology was primitive even for its time. There already were 3D games with texture mapped visuals, though obviously not as fast. Surprisingly, many polygon-based games of the time wouldn't have been faster than Wolf3D on equivalent hardware.

However, the gameplay IMO didn't capitalize well on the -relative- high speed action: the hero moved too clumsily around, and the only two tactics available were either a straight charge (chances are that you'd be outgunned and killed instantly if you entered an unfamiliar room on the hardest difficulties), or repeating the enter-tease-chokepoint routine a 1000 times over. There simply was no room for more advanced tactics such as Doom-like outrunning/merry-go-rounding or more tactical use of nooks/crannies/snipe points, which is what made the game so dull for me.

Old Post 11-16-12 12:17 #
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Gez
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I still kinda like it, but I prefer to play it through something like AFADoomer's TC, so that I get nice perks like the automap.

Old Post 11-16-12 12:51 #
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jongo
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i love gameplay of wolf3d, and replay it every now and then and keep enjoying the game every time. There's something specal about that goofy atmosphere, simplistic but dynamic gaming process coupled with an incredible OST that makes me want to return again and again.
When i was 4, mazy map layouts and lack of automap made me spend hours on each map, plus the whole FPS thing was very new to me so it was hard to learn the game quick. Like, for example, i remember having heard about some secrets hidden in most maps, but had no idea what those were and how to access them so what i used to do was to shoot all walls, touch decorations and explore all floor tiles in hopes to find a hole to fall in. Mind was blown every time when i managed to find a new feature. Naturally, the game left a big impression on me and nostalgic factor is probably one of the main reasons (if not _the main, it's hard for me to judge objectively) i'm still attracted to this game, even though it hasn't evolved at all since nineties, unlike doom.

Surprisingly, my first impression about doom was "damn this looks ugly and boring" and i started liking it only after buying a cd full of (horrible) 1994 wads, which i played in coop with a friend of mine for hours each day.

Old Post 11-16-12 13:03 #
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Mattfrie1
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I still play the SNES and 3DO versions of the game from time to time, and I downloaded it off of the Playstation Store for my PS3. The SNES version is fun simply because of the goofy censorship as well as giving me a reason to use my SNES mouse besides Mario Paint. The 3DO version was also pretty awesome to include all the PC maps as well as the simplified console versions all on one disc.

Old Post 11-16-12 13:13 #
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fraggle
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Doom is the father of the modern FPS, Wolf3D was its grandfather.

I feel like Doom's features defined what we have now come to expect from FPSes; Wolfenstein was (although a great game in its own right) something like a prototype of what was to come.

Old Post 11-16-12 13:18 #
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printz
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Except for the secret puzzles, Wolfenstein 3D can be easily solved by the computer. (My link in the signature leads to an outdated binary, so if you want something newer, you'll have to try to compile the SVN source, sorry. Visual Studio 2008 and XCode 3 source projects available, you'll just need to download the SDL run-times or frameworks)UPDATED. Sorry for the self-plug, but it was on-topic (what I think about the game).

It's a solid and challenging game nonetheless for the human, you don't want to mess with the enemies, they can hurt you badly.

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Last edited by printz on 11-16-12 at 17:28

Old Post 11-16-12 13:26 #
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Bashe
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I enjoy it every now and again, but the hitscan-heavy enemy roster and control limitations, in terms of strafing and mouse control, make it difficult to enjoy for too long. Sometimes it's a real exercise in frustration, but overall I like and respect the game for what it is. The development of ECWolf has definitely made things better for modding and whatnot, and I look forward to that.

Old Post 11-16-12 14:10 #
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Vermil
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I'm sure the Quake 1 community looks on Doom the same way yourselves are looking on Wolf3D.

Old Post 11-16-12 14:13 #
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eargosedown
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I respect it for its history, but no. I do not like the theme, nor do I find the gameplay enjoyable in the slightest.


Except for the SS troopers sounds. They still make me giggle for some god damn reason.

Old Post 11-16-12 15:13 #
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Technician
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Vermil said:
I'm sure the Quake 1 community looks on Doom the same way yourselves are looking on Wolf3D.
No.

Old Post 11-16-12 15:24 #
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188DarkRevived
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I alternate/cycle between Wolfenstein and Doom and Heretic/Hexen and Duke Nukem and many many other things throughout the duration of the year.
Stereotyping really should be avoided.

Old Post 11-16-12 18:54 #
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Fuzzyfireball
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Have to be in the mood. Wolfenstein still has a very large community.

Old Post 11-16-12 19:51 #
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InsanityBringer
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I would probably like it more if the level design wasn't as constrained and the controls were better. Thankfully, ECWolf and other ports help tremendously in terms of controls, "fixing" the lack of strafe buttons and the like.

I don't really hate the basic game, it's fun here and there, but it could be better. On another note, it also really irritates me that people seem to have this thing for trying to replicate Wolf 3D-like levels in the Doom engine. We were given all these new mapping features, and then a few years later with the release of the Doom source came Boom (and boom-derived engines, like prboom and MBF), ZDoom, Eternity, Doomsday, and all sorts of engines that can extend the graphical and mapping capabilities of Doom games.

And then we get maps that are made of 64x64 tiles with wolfenstein textures. It'd be more interesting to see something set in a Wolfenstein-like world with new assets from scratch and usage of more mapping abilities. Just look at what they did with RTCW.

Old Post 11-16-12 20:05 #
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BuffGUh
huh?


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188DarkRevived said:
I alternate/cycle between Wolfenstein and Doom and Heretic/Hexen and Duke Nukem and many many other things throughout the duration of the year.
Stereotyping really should be avoided.


I didn't stereotype, learn to read and not be so defensive.

Old Post 11-16-12 20:49 #
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Scypek2
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I will always love Wolfenstein because it was a game that introduced me to modding. My dad still plays sometimes my 60-level set (kind of megawl6, but that doesn't sound as cool:P). He doesn't like doom though:(

Old Post 11-16-12 21:22 #
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fraggle
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Vermil said:
I'm sure the Quake 1 community looks on Doom the same way yourselves are looking on Wolf3D.
Quite possibly a valid objection - I'd defend by arguing that the differences between Doom and Quake are far smaller than the differences between Wolf3D and Doom.

First, in terms of technology Doom was obviously a big advance. With Doom you've got an almost fully-3D environment, whereas in Wolf3D everything is completely flat. That makes a big difference to the overall game - as others have pointed out, Wolf3D's gameplay is almost entirely limited to maze searching. Doom's support for non-orthogonal walls and varying floor/ceiling heights open the doors to much more varied and complex gameplay. Obviously Quake takes this further with true 3D levels, but the difference and the effect on gameplay is far smaller.

Then there's the artistic direction to the game. Doom brought a dark realism that probably few if any games in the early '90s had. If you look at Wolf3D there's still a kind of Commander Keen-style cartoony feel to the game - from the "Death cam" to the chicken meal power-ups. It's fun but it's not pretending to be realistic. Doom set a new precedent that has since become the standard for FPSes that followed it, Quake included: that video games could be dark, serious and scary.

Finally, there are just so many concepts that originated in Doom and are now standard things - multiplayer deathmatch, add-on levels being encouraged by the authors, shotguns and rocket launchers. All these things are FPS staples nowadays. Quake brought better technology (true 3D rendering, better lighting, better multiplayer, more easily moddable), but it was largely building on things that Doom pioneered.

Old Post 11-16-12 21:32 #
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Enjay
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The main thing I find awkward about Wolf is that everything is 64x64. So, you can't walk into the alcoves that each door has on either side (visually) and visually small decorations take up just as much space as big ones etc. Then there is the lack of height variation...

Yeah, good game but a product of its time and not quite advanced enough to age well.

Old Post 11-16-12 21:38 #
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Eris Falling
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I know it is probably one of the most important games ever made. And I'm sure it was mind-bogglingly amazing when it came out, but I played it for the first time about a year ago. No. Not for me.

Old Post 11-16-12 21:44 #
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Blzut3
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Enjay said:
everything is 64x64.

Well the hitbox of monsters are 84x84 (which simulates auto aim) and the player is 44x44! :P

Old Post 11-16-12 22:01 #
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hex11
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That game never interested me. The story/theme had potential but the engine and thus map layouts just aren't interesting for a FPS. It would have been better as an action/RPG instead! (Ultima Underworld style)

Old Post 11-17-12 00:53 #
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GoatLord
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I played it a lot when I was younger. I haven't touched it in many years. It's just too limiting. However, "Blake Stone" is kinda fun.

Old Post 11-17-12 01:10 #
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LkMax
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I still play it sometimes, specially some of its best mods (e.g. Spear Ressurrection and End of Destiny). SDL versions for all.

By the way, one thing I could never understand though is what those 3 letters stand for when you beat the game. I'm not in my computer right now so I can't take a screenshot but when you finish an episode of Wolf3D, on the final score there's a "code" and 3 aparently random letters (like, "CODE XYZ").

Old Post 11-17-12 12:01 #
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Mogul
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I really, really enjoy Wolf3d, particularly if I haven't played in a while. There's something about its simplicity and straightforwardness that makes it instantly accessible and fun. There is a sense of humor about it that I think sort of defined id in the early days, and that started to diminish with DOOM and was nearly absent from Quake onward. It's a cool little snapshot of gaming history.

And for the record, I think it survived its iOS transition much better than its younger, more-famous brother.

Old Post 11-17-12 13:08 #
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Dr. Durr
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Mogul said:

And for the record, I think it survived its iOS transition much better than its younger, more-famous brother.

I agree with you on all but this. I don't quite like Wolf3D on iOS, it felt like the Jaguar version minus the flamethrower and missile launcher.

Old Post 11-17-12 18:47 #
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Clonehunter
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I still like Wolf 3D a fair amount and play it from time to time. It's a good mobile game too.

Old Post 11-17-12 20:01 #
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I'd imagined a Wolf3D source port with features like splitscreen, co-op, new difficulty features and a "survival" mode where you face waves of Nazis. Sadly, I'd never be able to undertake something like that.

Old Post 11-18-12 00:01 #
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