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188DarkRevived
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Caffeine Freak said:
Anyway, a connection between Quake 1 and Quake 2 is unlikely. If you'll remember, id only titled it "Quake 2" because the title they wanted to go with had already been taken. Also, there's really no plausible connection between the storylines of the games---Quake is completely occultic and supernatural, Quake 2 is completely sci-fi. It'd be like trying to draw a storyline connection between, I dunno, Doom and Dead Space. Not the best example, but the point is that one has essential supernatural elements in the storyline, and the other has none at all.

Revelations such as this one make me proud of the fact that I'm a non-Quaker! I've made the wisest decision by choosing Heretic&Hexen instead. :p

Old Post 11-25-12 23:56 #
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schwerpunk
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Not me - I was a Quaker long before I considered myself a Doomer. Started with Quake 2, because of the multiplayer, but over the years grew to appreciate the single-player of Quake 1 for the masterpiece that it is.

Old Post 11-26-12 00:12 #
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General Rainbow Bacon
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I liked the old atmosphere of Quake 1 as well. The multitude of Lovecraft references helped a lot in making the game seem creepy.

Old Post 11-26-12 00:13 #
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Caffeine Freak
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DoomUK said:

True, but then there was never any mention of supernatural elements in any of the previous Alien films (there might have been in the comic books or somewhere, but I have no idea :p).



That's my point. There was never ANY mention of supernatural elements in Q2 or Q4.


DoomUK said:
Whether Quake 2 was named as such because of laziness on Id's behalf and/or because they wanted to use a recognised name for their new game is irrelevant, to me. What's important is that there was this game called Quake which had a supernatural, occult-y theme, while it's sequel and two more games that directly followed it were based in a vastly different universe. Besides, Q3A already married elements from both worlds, even if it's "storyline" was hardly important considering what kind of game it was.


Q3A had no storyline, it was just a straight deathmatch game that borrowed characters and weapons from previous id games. Neither Q3A nor Q2 are 'sequels' to Q1 in the traditional sense of the term, as none of them have anything to do with each other, apart from the game engine of each being a descendant of the previous(which is probably the most plausible reason for the names of the titles.) The point is, id never intended the Q1 universe to be part of the Q2 universe, and the design and storyline of each game strongly reflects that. To try and retrofit supernatural elements into the Q2 universe now would be a farce.

Old Post 11-26-12 02:21 #
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Clonehunter
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Caffeine Freak said:


It's 'Shub-Niggurath', not 'Shub-Niggergod.'



Close enough anyways. Besides, it was pretty big and brownish anyways. I think I liked the Chasm version better though.

And speaking of games that could use/deserve a reboot...

Old Post 11-26-12 02:21 #
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Caffeine Freak
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188DarkRevived said:

Revelations such as this one make me proud of the fact that I'm a non-Quaker! I've made the wisest decision by choosing Heretic&Hexen instead. :p



You're missing out on some great games, then. Besides, it's not like you're choosing a religion. You don't have to go with one or the other.

Old Post 11-26-12 02:32 #
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Dragonsbrethren
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Technician said:
I think my biggest fear is whether the new generation of developers can grasp the old-school mechanics that make classic FPS like Quake so appealing to us. id's last game to feature Doom's characteristics (controls, speed, level geometry, etc.) was Quake 3, and since then, id's games feel like modern shooters.

I really hope they don't try to turn Quake into another slow paced "horror" game like Doom 3. Quake's atmosphere is great, its storyline allows pretty much any setting imaginable, and I don't want to see it wrecked with sleep inducing gameplay.

Old Post 11-26-12 02:46 #
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188DarkRevived
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Caffeine Freak said:
You're missing out on some great games, then.

Perhaps Quake1 and Hexen2 both have equally good gameplay overall, but Hexen2 has more colours and less brown.
Quake2 is missing the giant chickens and the female elves with twirling staffs, but it is the only other id game which reminds me of oldschool DOOM.
*sigh*

Old Post 11-26-12 03:06 #
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Dragonsbrethren
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Complaining about "brown" is a sure fire sign you've never actually played Quake. (It has blue, too!)

Old Post 11-26-12 03:11 #
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188DarkRevived
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I played it on a friend's computer back in 1998 for like half-an-hour. Perhaps I forgot a little bit of the things I saw. But still, meh.
My heart belongs to Heretic2 and Hexen2 which surprisingly enough run on the same engine.

Old Post 11-26-12 03:13 #
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InsanityBringer
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Caffeine Freak said:
Q3A had no storyline, it was just a straight deathmatch game that borrowed characters and weapons from previous id games.
It had a story, but it's not really a plot that deserves much discussion, being used solely to create a setting for the game. At that level, it does its job perfectly, and the rest of the game, forget it. It's killing your supposed enemies, you can add more to that (ie: element of trying to break free from the captors), but something like that would probably end up getting relegated to cutscenes or text scenes and I feel it would lose impact since chances are, it won't influence the game too much due to the deathmatch nature of things. (if any deathmatch specific games have ever told an interesting story, I'd like to be pointed at them!)

On the subject of a quake reboot, I don't know how to feel about it entirely. More of the same would at least be fun, but I don't know, I'd like to see something new with those worlds that have been built. And then five months from now it turns out that they do something different and then I get pissed and forget this desire.

I don't know, maybe it would be best to just stick to a refined classic shooter gameplay style. Quake is a lot of mindless fun, and I always found the weapons, while maybe not the best sounding or animated, to be really fun to use, including the nailgun which some didn't like. They had decent feedback at the very least, something I think is critical for any game of this sort, and it was at least quite interesting that they decided to try some different things when compared to Doom (shotgun over pistol for starter weapon, nailgun with upgrade over chaingun, addition of a grenade launcher, and thunderbolt over plasma gun), and this could potentially allow for more interesting weapons to be added to the game.

Old Post 11-26-12 04:12 #
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Technician
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188DarkRevived said:
Quake2 is missing the giant chickens and the female elves with twirling staffs, but it is the only other id game which reminds me of oldschool DOOM.
Quake is basically Doom's 3D brother. Quake 2 has the game-breaking backtracking. But of course, if Hexen is your preference, you probably get down with that whole hub shit.

Old Post 11-26-12 04:13 #
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DoomUK
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Caffeine Freak said:
That's my point. There was never ANY mention of supernatural elements in Q2 or Q4.

There's a huge difference in pulling a brand new thematic element out of thin air and shoehorning it into a sequel, and drawing on elements from an older entry in the series that might have been forgotten about.

I've been talking about the Q1 and Q2/Q4/ETQW worlds as if they're totally separate, but in truth I've always considered them being of the same canon*. All of this is completely academic and conjectural because it's probably not going to happen, but considering Doom blended sci-fi elements and occultic themes seamlessly, it's not like an official marriage of the Quake and Quake 2 worlds would be exploring virgin territory in terms of it's premise.

*Whether Q4 was a "true" sequel to Q2 is highly debatable, but that's another story.

Old Post 11-26-12 09:08 #
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Nomad
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DoomUK said:
but considering Doom blended sci-fi elements and occultic themes seamlessly


Not sure if people are forgetting, but Quake does this too. The first couple levels of most of the episodes are in tech bases. Ogres have clearly been experimented on by some kind of technology savvy peoples. Is it really that much of a stretch to say this could segue into the Strogg invasion?

I should elaborate that I'm not saying in this thread that they should even try to blend the two worlds together, but that if they did I think I would be OK with it. In other words if it's still fun you won't be able to count me in with the crybaby fanboys.

Old Post 11-26-12 09:31 #
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The Lovecraftian style of Q1 was almost purely cosmetic.

All the games have a pretty loose narrative. Thematically speaking, I don't see it as a big stretch to combine the body horror of Q2/Q4 with eldritch horror. In fact, I'd be impressed if they put that much thought into the story. Hell, why not throw Q3 in the mix while we're at it? Let's have a "bored deity using mortals for bloodsports" subplot in there somewhere.

Old Post 11-26-12 09:36 #
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Ragnor
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First I want a console rerelease of it, its the only Quake game not on the Xbox 360 for example. My computers ALWAYS have issues with Quake 1 in some form, itd be nice to play it properly on my TV.

Old Post 11-26-12 09:44 #
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kristus
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Everytime people bring up this nonsense about tying the two Quake stories together, I just want to throw a chair at whoever is doing it.

Old Post 11-26-12 14:52 #
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schwerpunk
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It's really not that hard to make a connection... Anyway, I'm a big fan of the Q1 aesthetic, but I couldn't care less how/if they tie the lore together. Really, I'll be chuffed if they can manage to capture the same tone in a sequel.

Have John Romero write some more of his horrible intermission screens, heh (I actually enjoyed them). :)

Old Post 11-26-12 15:07 #
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Gez
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schwerpunk said:
It's really not that hard to make a connection...

Similarly, it's really not that hard to make a connection between Resident Evil and Warhammer 40000. You just need to ignore they are two completely different settings! Look at all the overwhelming commonalities between both: there's people battling monsters and other people. Clearly in continuity.

Old Post 11-26-12 17:00 #
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DoomUK
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Gez said:
Similarly, it's really not that hard to make a connection between Resident Evil and Warhammer 40000. You just need to ignore they are two completely different settings! Look at all the overwhelming commonalities between both: there's people battling monsters and other people. Clearly in continuity.

I'm not even going to dignify this with an explanation of how that's such a silly comparison :p

I can guarantee there's been some fan fiction that's covered that particular crossover though. And if there hasn't, it sounds like a project for Peter Chimaera.

Old Post 11-26-12 17:06 #
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Khorus
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I'm of the opinion that Quake 2 and Unreal 1 are part of the same universe. There's marines, strogg and skarj in a triangle of faction warfare!

Quake 1 and 2 have such different thematics that I think it's just silly to try and make a link between the two. I wouldn't mind a modern take on the Quake 1 style, probably id's strongest title from an art and atmosphere perspective for me.

Old Post 11-26-12 18:03 #
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ducon
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Skarj in Quake 2?

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Old Post 11-26-12 18:06 #
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Khorus
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ducon said:
Skarj in Quake 2?


I was being facetious. ;)

Old Post 11-26-12 18:14 #
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Quasar
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DoomUK said:

So long as we're dealing with two types of pure fantasy then anything is plausible. If people's suspension of disbelief is willing to go along with anything in Quake or Quake 2, then I don't see what's at risk if these two universes collided


I think there's a trope for this. It's called "If Aliens, Then Jesus". The suggestion being that one unlikely thing in a certain canon may become justification for the inclusion of other unlikely things, even if they are seemingly unrelated. Like you're watching a zombie movie and suddenly, vampires.

Old Post 11-26-12 18:36 #
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Captain Toenail
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Haven't you heard? Doomguy is apparently BJ's descendant. So technically Doom is a continuation of Wolfenstein's universe. :o

As for Quake being brown, I remember a Playstation magazine describing Quake's graphics as being 'shit-encrusted' which I thought was quite funny.

Old Post 11-26-12 19:08 #
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Caffeine Freak
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DoomUK said:

There's a huge difference in pulling a brand new thematic element out of thin air and shoehorning it into a sequel, and drawing on elements from an older entry in the series that might have been forgotten about.

I've been talking about the Q1 and Q2/Q4/ETQW worlds as if they're totally separate, but in truth I've always considered them being of the same canon*. All of this is completely academic and conjectural because it's probably not going to happen, but considering Doom blended sci-fi elements and occultic themes seamlessly, it's not like an official marriage of the Quake and Quake 2 worlds would be exploring virgin territory in terms of it's premise.



Doom was designed around the concept of demons versus technology from it's very inception. Quake 2 was not. Can you please explain how, other than the titles sharing the 'Quake' name(the reasons for which have already been covered)they bear any resemblance to each other in terms of their storyline? They both feature marines, sure. Both of them take place in completely different settings and have very different enemies and very different styles of weapons. One has inter-dimensional travel, the other does not.


DoomUK said:
*Whether Q4 was a "true" sequel to Q2 is highly debatable, but that's another story.


How could it not be considered a sequel? The storyline references events at the end of Q2, the marines are fighting Strogg in both games, enemies in Q4 are clearly modern re-workings of enemies in Q2, the games share many of the same weapons, both games feature much of the same space technology(such as the individual marine pods that are launched from orbit at the planets)... how is this highly debatable?

I'm sorry to sound so dickish, but I seriously can't believe that in the same post you're saying that there *might* be a plausible connection between Q1 and Q2, but that it's highly debatable whether Q4 is truly a sequel to Q2.

Old Post 11-26-12 19:17 #
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Gez
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Caffeine Freak said:
How could it not be considered a sequel?

By being a hipster about it. "I was a fan of Q2 before Q4 was popular. Quake sucks now, it has sold out."


Captain Toenail said:
Haven't you heard? Doomguy is apparently BJ's descendant. So technically Doom is a continuation of Wolfenstein's universe. :o

That's from the phone RPGs, it's not canon. :|

I find it kinda dumb to try to tie different franchises in the same continuity just because. Like how Billy Blaze is the grandson of Blazkowitz.

Old Post 11-26-12 19:55 #
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schwerpunk
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1. Does anyone here actually care?

2. ... I guess I only had one point.

I'll say it again: the only tie-ins I care about are ones relating to tone and aesthetic.

Old Post 11-26-12 20:34 #
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CorSair
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... I really don't see ANY point creating ruckus about the story related between the Quake games, except Q2 and Q4. And I see Q1 and Q2/Q4 having different worlds. Q1 has netherworld feeling, Q2/Q4 Sci-fi feeling, Q3... Not gonna comment that.


'sides, I really wish that they drop Quake off as a name, and instead, they made it FEEL like Quake we first played. We already have too much of Battlefield 5 and Modern Warfare 8-renaming shit going around already.

New name... New feel.
If it helps.

Old Post 11-26-12 20:34 #
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schwerpunk
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"Fury" a new game from id software, published by Zenimax.

I wouldn't mind a new franchise, but that's what I said about Rage. Rage was fun, but not nearly as fun as Doom or Quake.

Sorry, I'm really cynical today. :/

Old Post 11-26-12 20:36 #
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