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Technician
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Caffeine Freak said:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/man...ith-one-bullet/

BAM! Good fucking riddance.



ashestoashes said:
Great job Lisa!!…Everyone should be licensed to carry..and be that brave..The counselor at Sandy Hook tried but she didn’t have a concealed carry..What a shame..She could have put an end to it..

Old Post 12-19-12 23:17 #
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Snakes
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Here's some utterly bizarre news from around my old turf today (about 10 miles away from my old home). Good times.

Old Post 12-20-12 00:15 #
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Snakes said:
Here's some utterly bizarre news from around my old turf today (about 10 miles away from my old home). Good times.
If they other - more responsible - patrons were armed, this whole situation would have ended after one shot.

Old Post 12-20-12 00:22 #
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DeathevokatioN
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Technician said:
If they other - more responsible - patrons were armed, this whole situation would have ended after one shot.
He was already charged with second degree homicide, maybe his first victim would have stood a chance if he was armed?

Old Post 12-20-12 10:29 #
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DeathevokatioN said:
He was already charged with second degree homicide, maybe his first victim would have stood a chance if he was armed?
I can only hope a state chooses to make it mandatory for citizens to carry a firearm. Then we'll see some statistics.

Speaking of statistics.

Also;

To our forum Switzerland residents: Is this macro accurate in it's depiction? Do you openly carry automatic weapons as an everyday habit? I'm seeing it pop-up all over the chans.

Old Post 12-21-12 22:50 #
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Gez
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Technician said:
To our forum Switzerland residents: Is this macro accurate in its depiction? Do you openly carry automatic weapons as an everyday habit? I'm seeing it pop-up all over the chans.


Seems like a good "pick and choose" macro. Take one apple, one orange, and declare this shows that green fruits are harder to peel. There are a lot of factors that differentiate Switzerland from Mexico apart from gun laws. The macro implies that strict gun control is responsible for police corruption...

As a matter of fact, Swiss people do not carry weapons out with them in their everyday lives. And Switzerland is pretty much the epitome of the "well regulated militia" thing. These weapons? They belong to the Swiss Army. The people who have them are conscripts. They're only supposed to use them so as to defend the country in case of foreign attack.


In more on-topic news, the NRA talked today! They have found the culprit behind this latest school shooting (answer: it's video games), and they have also found the cure to prevent such tragedies from ever occurring again (answer: it's putting armed guards in every school). Guns don't kill people; everything that isn't a gun kill people; more guns kill less people. Yay! Thanks, NRA, you deserve a Nobel Peace Prize!

Old Post 12-21-12 23:14 #
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hellothere231
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That's no good!
(But seriously, this is horrible. Just.. Wow.)

Old Post 12-21-12 23:39 #
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Gez said:
In more on-topic news, the NRA talked today! They have found the culprit behind this latest school shooting (answer: it's video games), and they have also found the cure to prevent such tragedies from ever occurring again (answer: it's putting armed guards in every school). Guns don't kill people; everything that isn't a gun kill people; more guns kill less people. Yay! Thanks, NRA, you deserve a Nobel Peace Prize!
Was the aftermath this asinine after Columbine? I can't remember.

Old Post 12-21-12 23:45 #
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Maes
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Then again, if you believe that banning weapons will automatically reduce violent crime, think again.

There's the loophole of "improper weapons", which could include almost anything ranging from sticks to a stone picked up from the ground, and may include even a bunch of chemicals that, apart, are harmless, but concocted together form a weapon or a poison.

Criminals will even use a shepherd's staff, if that's what's available to them (article in Greek, but with the powers of Google Translate, this shouldn't be a problem).

Edit: the concept of improper weapon actually exists in Italian law (It. wiki article), I don't know what the closest Common Law equivalent is. In any case, Italian law differentiates between proper weapons (those that ARE weapons by design and main purpose) and improper ones, which are objects that have a different primary use. Most knives, sticks, bludgeons, pipes, pointed instruments etc. are also improper weapons. Stuff like explosives and chemical/bacteriological agents are also considered a "real" weapon, even if using e.g. a stick of dynamite or a canister of mustard gas isn't as easy as shooting a gun of beating someone to death with a lead pipe.

Then again, there are some objects that are in a grey area between the two, e.g. powder nail guns which are little more than a gun in disguide (and, in fact, are illegal in some jurisdictions).

Last edited by Maes on 12-22-12 at 00:09

Old Post 12-21-12 23:57 #
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I'm not advocating gun control at all. I'm just not convinced that an armed community is a safer community. I don't have enough faith in humanity to use firearms correctly, and execute logic and reason if the situation ever arises to use them. Remember, mob mentality eats logic for breakfast.

Zombies A Factor In Gun Sales Increase, Gun Rights Advocate Says

Old Post 12-22-12 01:38 #
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Gez said:
In more on-topic news, the NRA talked today! They have found the culprit behind this latest school shooting (answer: it's video games), and they have also found the cure to prevent such tragedies from ever occurring again (answer: it's putting armed guards in every school). Guns don't kill people; everything that isn't a gun kill people; more guns kill less people. Yay! Thanks, NRA, you deserve a Nobel Peace Prize!

Because schools have that kind of discretionary income. Maybe the Guard's salary can come out of NRA dues.

Old Post 12-22-12 01:47 #
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Scuba Steve said:
Because schools have that kind of discretionary income. Maybe the Guard's salary can come out of NRA dues.
Isn't it obvious? Schools need to be privatized! It'll be great! School attendance will go through the roof. Look, prisons are privatized, and they're packed to the brim.

Old Post 12-22-12 02:02 #
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neubejiita
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http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vi...m=323169833#PIC

So will these sites selling these Bushmaster guns go down or will they be more closely monitored?

Old Post 12-22-12 02:05 #
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Clonehunter
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Gez said:

In more on-topic news, the NRA talked today! They have found the culprit behind this latest school shooting (answer: it's video games), and they have also found the cure to prevent such tragedies from ever occurring again (answer: it's putting armed guards in every school). Guns don't kill people; everything that isn't a gun kill people; more guns kill less people. Yay! Thanks, NRA, you deserve a Nobel Peace Prize!



The answer is always video games! Also, most high schools I know of already have a gun... One... Held by the police liaison (My school anyways).

And he has a tazer and pepperspray, so future school shooters u bettr watch yo asses bcuz he dont fuck wit nun o u shtheds he blow sum caps and spray ur ass down nigga.

Funny, there was a rumor floating around that our school was going to have a shooting, but of course it's false, because who he hell advertises a shooting except 4chan? (I actually don't know, so... yah...)

Old Post 12-22-12 03:20 #
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Clonehunter said:
Also, most high schools I know of already have a gun... One... Held by the police liaison (My school anyways).

Quite a difference here. I'm sure that a gun of that type being held in a school in the UK would be unthinkable. If it became public knowledge, there would be an outcry. People would lose their jobs etc.

Old Post 12-22-12 03:25 #
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Clonehunter
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Enjay said:

Quite a difference here. I'm sure that a gun of that type being held in a school in the UK would be unthinkable. If it became public knowledge, there would be an outcry. People would lose their jobs etc.



Well as long as you don't have guys like this (http://www.imfdb.org/images/b/b5/Vendetta8.JPG) running around. Interesting though.

(Also, as seen by my parenthesis, how do you do that thing where you make hyperlink with the text here?)

Old Post 12-22-12 03:30 #
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eargosedown
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The argument I've heard of there being less violent crimes if every person had a gun available at all times always gives me a good laugh at how silly it sounds.

Even if there was an armed guard posted at every school, the shooter could have just shot him first. Then what would it have mattered at all?

Old Post 12-22-12 04:20 #
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Bucket
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Columbine HS had an armed guard on duty at the time of the shootings. He clearly did not prevent any violence.
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/co...PUTIES_TEXT.htm

Presumably, there are many armed soldiers at military bases. This did not deter a man from killing a dozen people.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...9111208617.html

Old Post 12-22-12 07:05 #
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Mike.Reiner
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Bucket said:
Presumably, there are many armed soldiers at military bases. This did not deter a man from killing a dozen people.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...9111208617.html



As somebody who works on a military base, I can tell you at least at the one I work at, next to nobody outside of MP and gate guards are actively armed. It's one big gun-free zone for the most part.. even with a carry permit we don't get to carry on base unless it's going straight to the armory or gun club.

Old Post 12-22-12 07:46 #
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Maes
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eargosedown said:
Even if there was an armed guard posted at every school, the shooter could have just shot him first. Then what would it have mattered at all?


Depends on the kind of the guard. If it's the clock-punchin', fat donut-eatin' type that gets shot with his pants down while taking a shit in the outhouse, sure, no difference. But if the guard is some sort of psychotic Major Payne, then we're talking ;-)

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Major_9654d2_458033.jpg

Also, why the outcry at armed police liaisons at schools? They are sworn and trained police officers, and thus should belong to the "privileged elite" that, even according to the strictest of gun control advocates, should be trusted with guns. If not them, then who?

OK, I know there are even advocates of unarmed police...but certainly not in the US. But even in the UK, if a "bobby" was to be stationed as a liaison at every school, he would be just as trained, armed and as real and royally appointed "bobby" as those on the street, not some kind of minimum wagin', maglite-fondlin', polyester-pants-wearin' squarebadge.

Last edited by Maes on 12-22-12 at 10:32

Old Post 12-22-12 10:27 #
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GreyGhost
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Gez said:
In more on-topic news, the NRA talked today! They have found the culprit behind this latest school shooting (answer: it's video games), and they have also found the cure to prevent such tragedies from ever occurring again (answer: it's putting armed guards in every school). Guns don't kill people; everything that isn't a gun kill people; more guns kill less people. Yay! Thanks, NRA, you deserve a Nobel Peace Prize!
That seems to be the NRA's "one size fits all" solution to gun crime - more guns! It's a bit like trying to douse a fire by hosing it down with petrol.

Old Post 12-22-12 12:13 #
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Enjay
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Maes said:
Also, why the outcry at armed police liaisons at schools? They are sworn and trained police officers, and thus should belong to the "privileged elite" that, even according to the strictest of gun control advocates, should be trusted with guns. If not them, then who?


Remember, as a matter of routine, even regular cops are not armed in the UK. The UK is very sensitive to guns and gun culture and meeting someone who has a gun is a fairly unlikely event in many people's lives. I worked at one school a number of years ago where they were holding a "murder mystery" event. One of the pieces of "evidence" was a pistol made from salt dough. This was enough to prompt some parents to question why their kids were being encouraged to "make guns". I grant you that's an extreme example of a very silly level of sensitivity to guns IMO. It's not unusual for kids to bring a toy gun on "dress as you please" or "theme day" events and not have any real problem (though some have had them confiscated 'til the end of the day) but the thought of a school holding a gun to protect the kids in a society that generally regards itself as reasonably gun free where gun ownership is not the norm and generally unexpected would be unacceptable. Even when the army come to a school for a careers event, they have to be careful about how they display the job that they are showcasing (ie being a soldier). They would probably not bring any guns with them and may not even bring pictures of guns. Yes, I know that they are talking about a job where one of the "tools of the trade" is a gun. I know that it seems ridiculous. I'm not saying I agree. I'm just saying that's how it is. A number of schools do not invite the army to such events because parental reaction has been quite strongly against it. On the flip side, I know some schools that run a clay pigeon shooting club (attending a private club outwith the school).

I would guess that most Britons are unlikely to even see a real gun in their lifetime in the UK and the only guns that I have seen people using are farmers/land owners who have shotguns or the number of friends who I have in the military. As a private individual, to get a shotgun, you have to demonstrate that you have somewhere to keep it (a lockable metal cabinet to an approved standard), somewhere safe to fire it and have lodged a lengthy application with the police. Occasionally (with even stricter regulation than shotguns) people may also have a rifle. Hand guns are far more strictly regulated which was one of the consequences of the Dunblane shooting.

Old Post 12-22-12 13:01 #
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DoomUK
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GreyGhost said:
That seems to be the NRA's "one size fits all" solution to gun crime - more guns! It's a bit like trying to douse a fire by hosing it down with petrol.

The thing is, it's one of only two solutions that get presented whenever these kinds of tragedies occur, or when the topic is brought up through less sinister circumstances. Two groups of people dominate by pontificating the following:-

Group A: More guns are the answer! Arm everyone!

Group B: Less guns are the answer! Disarm everyone!

Personally, I don't think either of these knee-jerk reactions are the answer.


Enjay said:
*sensitivity to guns in the United Kingdom*

Most of this I can attest to. I think Scotland is even more sensitive about guns than the rest of us, though. Perhaps justifiably.

Last edited by DoomUK on 12-22-12 at 13:13

Old Post 12-22-12 13:04 #
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Gez
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DoomUK said:
Group A: More guns are the answer! Arm everyone!

Group B: Less guns are the answer! Disarm everyone!


Do not trust the NRAbot, he is malfunctioning
Do not trust the gun control bots, more guns is the answer
I have armed many humans!
I have disarmed many more!
The humans are protected six foot down under!
Our mission is complete!

Old Post 12-22-12 13:36 #
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Maes
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Funny, considering that every time I think "guns in the UK" I think about Dukes, Lords and Earls going for pigeon shooting at their elite clubs yelling "Pull!" or for Big Hunting in Africa. I'm sure they should have no problem acquiring whatever they wish, along with a friendly pat in the back from their high-echelon friendships among politicians, the police etc.

Perhaps there's still an "upper class" component to weapons ownership in the UK, which is masked by a thin layer of do-goodism for the sheeple? I'm surprised that it has seeped down to the level of the police though, but perhaps I shouldn't: after all, what Lord would like his servants to have the same right to bear arms as he does?

Also, (legal) soldiering is not really an ideal job for the wannabe "gun nut": too many non-gun related menial tasks to perform, too many inside regulations about weapon & ammo usage & security, and you rarely get issued live ammo outside of a hostile warzone. You'll spend much more time cleaning your gun than using it. There's also a "rank & class" component here: the "plebean" infantryman or NCO gets issued a rifle, the "noble" officer gets a side handgun.

Cops, OTOH, carry LIVE ammo with them all the time (well, maybe not in the UK) and typically practice with them much more often than army grunts do with their guns. Also, being a soldier usually does not grant you an automatic personal gun carry license, while being a cop does. A cop can buy a .44 mag if so he pleases and carry it with him even when off-duty, while a soldier is as neutered as any civilian after he leaves his post, let alone taking his (issued) rifle out of the rack for a walk in the town!

Old Post 12-22-12 13:43 #
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DoomUK
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Maes said:
Perhaps there's still an "upper class" component to weapons ownership in the UK

Certainly, yes. It's by no means an exclusive sport, but generally speaking when someone lists "shooting" as one of their hobbies you can usually assume they at least come from a well-to-do background, if not an aristocratic or noble one.

Big game hunting isn't all that popular any more, though. You're more likely to see an IT manager from Virginia paying a few thousand dollars to shoot a buffalo in Zimbabwe than some stiff upper-lipped British blue blood.

Old Post 12-22-12 14:01 #
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DoomUK said:
Group A: More guns are the answer! Arm everyone!

Group B: Less guns are the answer! Disarm everyone!

How about a compromise, let people own as many guns as they like but confiscate their ammunition. Also, anyone caught with live ammo can be summarily pistol-whipped to death.

Old Post 12-22-12 14:03 #
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the issue here is really about how few tiny coffins we have.

Old Post 12-22-12 14:46 #
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Gez
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Maes said:
Perhaps there's still an "upper class" component to weapons ownership in the UK

Not just weapon ownership. Social stratification is a lot stronger in Great Britain than in other European countries. The Lords always had power, not the King (the attempt at absolute monarchy resulted in regicide) and not the people. Even today, while they House of Lords has lost a lot of power to the House of Commons, the mere fact that they still exist would seem absurd pretty much anywhere on the continent.

Old Post 12-22-12 14:52 #
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DoomUK said:
Certainly, yes. It's by no means an exclusive sport, but generally speaking when someone lists "shooting" as one of their hobbies you can usually assume they at least come from a well-to-do background, if not an aristocratic or noble one.

I would say that is probably less the case in Scotland. At least in the part where I live. I mean, yes, social strata etc is still a part of many aspects of life in the UK - here as anywhere - but there is slightly less emphasis on "the old school tie" etc north of the border I think.

With reference to gun sports, I live in a pretty rural area and most farmers will have a shotgun and will use it for pest control and then, by extension, for recreation. Also, living near Aberdeen and the oil industry, there is a lot of "new money" people. So shoots and so on are well attended by people with money and business power but not necessarily a traditional "high" social position. It is worth saying that the gun sports are generally things like clay pigeon shooting and grouse shooting (etc) and not pistol clubs with target ranges etc. There weren't that many of them beforehand but after the legislation that came about because of Dunblaine they became very rare indeed (if any even exist any more). I don't know anyone who regularly fires pistols for recreation in the UK.

Old Post 12-22-12 15:33 #
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