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How should an official Doom remake be?
Just a minor official update of vanilla Doom is fine, like a better Doom95 or XBLA Doom.
A Boom-like enhanced source port. Close to vanilla but limit-removing "the way Boom did".
A very advanced source port a-la ZDoom or Eternity, but official.
It should use a modern 3D engine with all the frills that come with it.
It should stick to a classic software renderer, maybe with a few enhancements, but true to the original.
Compatible with standard IWADs/PWADs and maybe DEH patches
Competely redesigned (art and levels) to suit a modern engine, no need to bother with backwards compatibility at all.
It should use only the original Doom data (art & levels), with maybe optional hi-res graphics video & audio enhancements.
The engine or at least the actual gameplay should remain the same as vanilla Doom, perhaps with options such as freelook etc.
The gameplay and engine could be something totally new and different, as long as it plays good and it's not CoD ;-)
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Maes
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I know this fits better in Doom General, but IMO a poll is absolutely essential for clarity, so I have no choice but creating it here.

So, on-topic, if id was to make an enhanced Doom remake (let's call it Doom: BFG edition for the sake of it), what features would you like it to have? How do you imagine it to be? What would make YOU feel satisfied with it? For example:


  • Would it merely be a rehash/minor update of the classic vanilla Doom engine (like they did for the Classic Doom in Doom 3: BFG edition and most recent ports)?
  • Would it be some sort of an official super-source port a-la GZDoom?
  • Would it be some sort of official Doom Ascension-like project?
  • Would it be something more akin to Sahkan's Doom Remake or Classic Doom for Doom 3?
  • Would compatibility with PWADs and all official IWADs be a must, or it would be alright even if art and resources were completely different and incompatible with other source ports and editors?
  • Did Doom 3 fill this spot in your heart already? Or you feel that Doom 4 will?


Speak up, people! More than one choice possible ;-)

Last edited by Maes on 02-25-13 at 14:37

Old Post 02-25-13 14:23 #
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Nomad
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I'd prefer it's an actual whole new game, but with a similar engine and gameplay elements. Wrack of course is a good example. Certainly should have the fancy new effects of something like Edge, Eternity, or ZDoom.

Something like KDIZD would be somewhat OK, I just really hated the choices for new monsters in that so some coherent thought to monster variety would be preferred.

Old Post 02-25-13 14:41 #
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Eris Falling
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Original levels, same weapons, same enemies. HQ graphics + improved design.

By HQ I mean..

EDIT:

3D engine with all the frills that come with it

That's the one I ticked. Having seen the redesigned art and levels option, I realise I made a mistake ._.

Old Post 02-25-13 14:55 #
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Graf Zahl
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What I'd like to see is an engine that doesn't implement all functionality as C code but uses a good scripting language to define gameplay.

Aside from that, high resolution and hardware accelerated graphics are a must these days. Software 8-bit rendering is technically obsolete and if the game was updated should be eliminated.

I wouldn't do anything with the levels. Messing with game content will always end in failure. They may alter how the game content is presented but it has to stop at that point.

Old Post 02-25-13 14:55 #
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exp(x)


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There is no point in Id using the Doom engine, vanilla or modified, and the original resources. The community has done a great job with that for many years, and I doubt Id would do any better. I would rather see them recreate the gameplay of Doom in their new engine. Doom 3 was disappointing because the gameplay was completely different than classic Doom.

Old Post 02-25-13 14:58 #
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Gez
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I don't think there is a point for an official remake.

However, if there were to be one, it would be an actual remake, as in recreating something that plays about the same, but not based on the original engine or data. It would probably use their current generation of engine (so, Rage) and the enemies, weapons, and levels would be recreated to look kind of like they did way back in the nineties, but adapted to high-res 3D models.

Things like creating an advanced source port for the original data, and bothering with backward compatibility with dehacked patches? Nah. That would be stupid. What's the point of taking Doomsday or GZDoom and making them official? So that there's one unmaintained version that becomes the new standard? It'd be pointless (we already have Doomsday and GZDoom), it'd piss off port developers who'd feel pressured to adopt "new standard" features that may not fit with their current architecture or vision for their port, and it would eventually be obsoleted by hobbyists anyway, since Id wouldn't keep updating this new-old engine forever.

Old Post 02-25-13 15:14 #
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geo
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L4D = doom remake without knowing it. Start in a safe room and get to the next safe room. But no one did Doom remakes better than Half Life 1.

Old Post 02-25-13 15:18 #
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Memfis
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Keep the old engine but add some new monsters to expand the gameplay. Flying hitscanner. Monster that shoots many projectiles in different directions (for danmaku-like situations). Pain Elemental's brother that eats lost souls, turns them into three fireballs and then shoots them at you. (together they would make a great combo). Some new boss with relatively low HP (because masterminds and cybers take too long to kill without plasma/BFG). etc, etc. Of course all this stuff is possible to do with DECORATE or maybe even DEHACKED, but it would be nice to have some new "official" monsters of the same quality as the original ones.

Maybe fix the most useless bugs such as radiation suit leaks and intercepts overflows. (but definitely don't "fix" wallrunning, thingrunning, etc)

And add some new sector/linedef types (again, possible in ports like Eternity, but an official expansion would be cooler or something).

Old Post 02-25-13 15:40 #
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Gez
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Memfis said:
Maybe fix the most useless bugs such as radiation suit leaks


[Not a bug]

code:
// // P_PlayerInSpecialSector // Called every tic frame // that the player origin is in a special sector // void P_PlayerInSpecialSector (player_t* player) { sector_t* sector; sector = player->mo->subsector->sector; // Falling, not all the way down yet? if (player->mo->z != sector->floorheight) return; // Has hitten ground. switch (sector->special) { case 5: // HELLSLIME DAMAGE if (!player->powers[pw_ironfeet]) if (!(leveltime&0x1f)) P_DamageMobj (player->mo, NULL, NULL, 10); break; case 7: // NUKAGE DAMAGE if (!player->powers[pw_ironfeet]) if (!(leveltime&0x1f)) P_DamageMobj (player->mo, NULL, NULL, 5); break; case 16: // SUPER HELLSLIME DAMAGE case 4: // STROBE HURT if (!player->powers[pw_ironfeet] || (P_Random()<5) ) { if (!(leveltime&0x1f)) P_DamageMobj (player->mo, NULL, NULL, 20); } break; case 9: // SECRET SECTOR player->secretcount++; sector->special = 0; break; case 11: // EXIT SUPER DAMAGE! (for E1M8 finale) player->cheats &= ~CF_GODMODE; if (!(leveltime&0x1f)) P_DamageMobj (player->mo, NULL, NULL, 20); if (player->health <= 10) G_ExitLevel(); break; default: I_Error ("P_PlayerInSpecialSector: " "unknown special %i", sector->special); break; }; }



Pay particular attention to the case 16 SUPER HELL SLIME/case 4 STROBE HURT code:
code:
if (!player->powers[pw_ironfeet] || (P_Random()<5) )

"If the player does not have a radsuit or a random number is rolled lower than 5".

Definitely something that was fully intended to happen.

Old Post 02-25-13 15:47 #
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BlackFish
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An original IP on a current gen engine that involves keyhunting much like Doom/Quake. Being made with Unreal Engine (or something similar), an SDK can be included with the game (UnrealED) from the get-go, preventing the "need" for dlc.

Old Post 02-25-13 15:55 #
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Gez
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BlackFish said:
An original IP on a current gen engine that involves keyhunting much like Doom/Quake. Being made with Unreal Engine (or something similar), an SDK can be included with the game (UnrealED) from the get-go, preventing the "need" for dlc.

Mr Carmack, we've asked the fans what they wanted, and the outcome was "Doom in the Unreal engine". We are so very sorry.

Old Post 02-25-13 17:18 #
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Memfis
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Gez: wow, I learn something new about this game every day. :)

Old Post 02-25-13 17:39 #
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durian
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Two things:

1) Updated, hi resolution sprites, but done meticulously in the style of the orginals, rather than updated to make them more realistic, or whatever. I love the artistic style of the DOOM sprites, and it would be great to see hi-res, contemporary renditions, that retain the all the character and charm of the originals. (Perhaps similarly updated textures, just so the sprites didn't look out of place)

2) A new, generously sized, mapset - I really enjoyed NRFTL, and it was great to see work from professional game designers who had (I'm guessing) been somewhat insulated against the various trends and influences that have informed the output from the community (not to suggest that these are at all bad, it's just nice to see new styles and ideas).

But I know that these two things are highly unlikely to emerge.

Old Post 02-25-13 19:39 #
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Maes
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Gez said:
Mr Carmack, we've asked the fans what they wanted, and the outcome was "Doom in the Unreal engine". We are so very sorry.


What about Doom in the Unity engine, with DX11, bump mapping and shit like that? :-p

I'm surprised that the polls, so far, seem to point clearly in the direction of a complete remake that breaks away with vanilla, IWADs etc. and embraces a modern engine with HD 3D graphics, perhaps a "Doom 3 the way it should be". OK, maybe not with NUTS.WAD-type levels, but certainly SOME of the original gameplay can be presented through a modern engine, and it would be interesting to see the results. Bonus points if it DOESN'T feel like a prettied-up GZDoom or Doom Ascension.

So, after all, those who really want just an official "limit removing" source port are a minority. CAREFUL: even those who ask "just" for features such as freelook, one or two extra monsters or a N64-like expansion, or high-res graphics in the classic renderer, are basically asking for an advanced source port, not for a new game.

Old Post 02-25-13 19:40 #
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BlackFish
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Gez said:

Mr Carmack, we've asked the fans what they wanted, and the outcome was "Doom in the Unreal engine". We are so very sorry.



I meant another developer coming up with an original idea that has Doom like gameplay in it (with the keyhunting espicially). I'd rather prefer a new setting rather than techbases and hell.

If something like that happened, we'd have a mod-able game in a newer engine that would allow singleplayer maps to come out quickly from the community, much like how UT spawned multiplayer maps from their community.

Old Post 02-25-13 20:27 #
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Maes
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BlackFish said:
If something like that happened, we'd have a mod-able game in a newer engine that would allow singleplayer maps to come out quickly from the community, much like how UT spawned multiplayer maps from their community.


Keep in mind that adopting ANY engine other than idtech 1 (strictly referring to Doom and its derivatives) would make modding quite restrictive and out of reach of most people, so that's definitively a trade-off to consider. Given how difficult it is to map in true 3D is, no wonder you seldom see truly detailed architecture in most 3D games (artificially blowing the detail up with pre-made machinery model or vegetation/rubble algos doesn't count).

Old Post 02-25-13 20:46 #
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purist
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I don't really see the benefit of an official source port unless it is a vehicle for either brand new or redeveloped existing levels or serves some useful function. Here's my idea of the perfect remake:

- Updated graphics, sound and engine that retains the fast paced and violent spirit of classic Doom while adding new features like freelook and jumping.

- New levels and refashioned old levels to accomodate and take advantage of these new features.

- New resources such as new powerups (quad damage, jetpack), monsters (tougher/faster melee monster, floating boss monster, plasma zombies) and maybe a new or weapons (pistol replacement and a redesigned, more powerful chainsaw would satisfy me).

Alternatively a nice touch would a new front end for the XBox and PS3 ports that allow PWAD and LMP imports, plus some sort of compet-n style record of speedrun times.

Old Post 02-25-13 21:06 #
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schwerpunk
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The last option on your poll made me think: I would probably enjoy a Doom-themed stealth game. Or at least the inclusion of a workable stealth system within (Z)Doom itself...

But the main thing I would be would want from a newer Doom (ideally) is simply new sprites and sidedefs. Oh, and maybe movable/morphable sectors. Not that I think you guys couldn't do just as well on the former, but having an official release would make the new assets standard, so people could map for them with confidence.

This is all pie-in-the-sky of course.

Old Post 02-25-13 21:14 #
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Gez
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If it was specifically about tidying up the same old game data with a revamped Doom engine rather than something brand-new, I'd go with an ultimate ultimate Doom, which would contain all official IWADs and levels together as one thing. It'd merge the old levels with some of the extensions added by the PSX port (truecolor rendering, colored lighting in places; but without sacrificing level geometry or monster variety). There would be some cosmetic improvements (adding back the player or monster rotations that were cut to save space, fixing the small graphical errors in some sprites and textures). The artists would make new inter map graphics like in Doom 1, too. There also would be a Quake-style console.

Old Post 02-25-13 21:20 #
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chungy
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geo said:
L4D = doom remake without knowing it. Start in a safe room and get to the next safe room. But no one did Doom remakes better than Half Life 1.

Except HL1 had boring level design and not enough monster variation. But all the concepts are there.

Old Post 02-25-13 21:29 #
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schwerpunk
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Gez said:
If it was specifically about tidying up the same old game data with a revamped Doom engine rather than something brand-new, I'd go with an ultimate ultimate Doom, which would contain all official IWADs and levels together as one thing. It'd merge the old levels with some of the extensions added by the PSX port (truecolor rendering, colored lighting in places; but without sacrificing level geometry or monster variety). There would be some cosmetic improvements (adding back the player or monster rotations that were cut to save space, fixing the small graphical errors in some sprites and textures). The artists would make new inter map graphics like in Doom 1, too. There also would be a Quake-style console.
I take back my answer - this is what I would want. ^

Simply having one -- official -- WAD with everything Doom in it would be amazing for mapping/modding. My God, I think my dick just moved. http://i.imgur.com/Sig9OU6.gif

Old Post 02-26-13 01:10 #
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188DarkRevived
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My opinion? There doesn't need to be any official remakes. Period. Everything that needed improvements and/or refinements has already been taken care of by the fans through their work on source-ports.
Plain and simple. It cannot get more obvious than that.

And technically speaking, there already was an official remake back in 2004, but they decided to call it "DOOM3" for some odd reason.
Illogical, Carmack! Illogically illogical!

Last edited by 188DarkRevived on 02-26-13 at 01:38

Old Post 02-26-13 01:27 #
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Clonehunter
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I want to see a Chasm The Rift reboot instead. Honestly.

Old Post 02-26-13 02:19 #
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Captain Red
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I would do unsavory things for a Doom themed system shock II like game.

(No, Doom 3 isn't that game and neither is dead space)

Old Post 02-26-13 05:23 #
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Avoozl
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Updating a vanilla game doesn't really count as a remake. :P

Old Post 02-26-13 06:27 #
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188DarkRevived
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Avoozl said:
Updating a vanilla game doesn't really count as a remake. :P

Well, things like ZDOOM can sometimes make me feel as if I'm playing the game on the Duke3D engine. It does feel remade in new form.

Old Post 02-26-13 19:16 #
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Dragonsbrethren
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I initially let my vanilla purism take hold, but then I thought about it for a minute. We have vanilla, we have faithful ports to pretty much every platform, so let's get a real remake. New 3D engine and new art assets, with no need for backwards compatibility so the levels can be altered to better fit these assets, unlike the "HD" stuff the community's done, which always stands out against the simplistic map geometry. As long as the basic gameplay stays the more-or-less the same, I'll be happy with it.

We can handle the purist side of things well enough on our own, probably better than id themselves could hope to.

Old Post 02-26-13 23:51 #
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cannonball
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In the end it should be something brand new, new engine the works as long as it's a great game.
You look at the many options on here and you think, we can do this already, with the source ports we have there are a lot of wads/mods that expand and enhance the game we know and love. Looks at all the great wads made which surpass anything people would have thought was possible back in the mid nineties.
Dragonsbrethren pretty much expresses my view perfectly here.

Old Post 02-27-13 00:19 #
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pilottobombadier
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I agree, it should be a new engine with new ideas, and not the exact same conceptual armoury since Quake 3.

I think it would benefit from classic elements, though, such as the key hunt, running as hell and fighting large groups of enemies.

However, it also needs its own puzzles, high levels of interactivity (unlike most games today) and co-op as part of the multiplayer suite.

Old Post 02-27-13 12:34 #
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scifista42
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Lower emphasis on graphics, bigger emphasis on gameplay, full of new ideas while keeping similar gameplay concepts of classis Doom, like searching for secrets or grabbing spheres etc., secret levels, Easter Eggs reminding by-far-not-only-classic-Doom, no horror-like atmosphere, maybe even funny moments (as long as its not Impse, right?), stylized violence, (nonrealistic looking blood and effects close-to-sorta-cheesy, making the game suitable for everyone), wooden shotgun, compact nonlinear levels, but with less abstract design than classis Doom, more resembling real world, but again - not excessively, definitely brand new engine allowing moderately-advanced physics and special effects AND allowing easy modding at the same time, some work with light, and now I might mention millions of little details I would be glad for, but I think I said enough for now.

And the most important: It must be fast paced and fun-2-play.

The same answer I would give you if you asked me how I would like Doom 4.

Old Post 02-28-13 21:53 #
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