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Archy
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While messing around with Ken Silverman's Build Engine, I pressed f4 (change resolution) just a few times too many and instead of adjusting to 640x400, it adjusted to... 848x480?
http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/q574/ArchyMcMuffin/dos4gw_000.png

Huh? A 16:9 resolution on a DOS game? Could video cards even support that back then? How would this work?

Since the Build Engine is the essence of the Build Engine, as the Build Engine is its self which is the Build Engine as that is what it is, I figured that this was just some testy test thing and not an actual option in the games based off of the Build Engine... but apparently not.

Duke Nukem 3d supports 848x480 and it looks good, everything's scaled properly except the HUD which looks horribly stretched:
http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/q574/ArchyMcMuffin/duke3d_004.png

Since it worked for Duke3d, I decided to try Blood and same results:
http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/q574/ArchyMcMuffin/blood_001.png

Here's a comparison with 640x400:
http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/q574/ArchyMcMuffin/blood_006.png

With f4, Ken Silverman's Build Engine can be in any of the fallowing modes:
code:
RES: RATIO: 320x200 8:5 320x240 4:3 320x400 4:5 320x480 2:3 640x350 64:35 640x480 4:3 640x400 8:5 800x600 4:3 848x480 16:9 1024x768 4:3 1152x864 4:3 1280x800 8:5 1280x960 4:3
(1280x1024 and 1600x1200 can be accessed via the setup program.)


848x480 is not listed as an option in the Build Engine's setup, in Blood's setup, or in Duke3d's setup, yet it it a valid option in all of them. It is also the only valid 16:9 option on all of them.

Why is 848x480 so special? Why is it the only 16:9 resolution available? Who back then could have used it?

Anyone have any info?

Thanks.

Old Post 03-30-13 07:43 #
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Maes
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Archy said:
Why is 848x480 so special? Why is it the only 16:9 resolution available? Who back then could have used it?


Compatibility with 1 MB SVGA cards, standard VESA modes and 480-line monitors might have been a consideration back then.

As to who might have used such modes....I recall one of those early Wish-It-Was-VR systems in 1996-1997 with a "walking platform" and a "VR helmet" at the arcades, which used DN3 as one of the selectable "virtual reality experiences". It was nothing spectacular, really, and the whole affair was basically one gigantic shoehorning affair (TOMMOROW IS HERE! TRY THE NEW AND ENHANCED GAMING EXPERIENCE! YEAH WE JUST PUT A BUNCH OF PC GAMES IN A FANCY CABINET AND CALLED IT 'VR' BUT IT'S THE FUTURE OF GAMING, DUDE!). However, I recall it used a "widescreen" mode for its DN3 demo (mind you, it was a customized DN3 installation, with one specially made level).

Old Post 03-30-13 12:54 #
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ducon
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Try EDuke32 instead?

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Old Post 03-30-13 14:07 #
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WildWeasel
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ducon said:
Try EDuke32 instead?

Call me crazy, but I don't think that's what the OP was asking about?

Old Post 03-30-13 20:00 #
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Archy
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ducon said:
Try EDuke32 instead?

Ew

Old Post 03-30-13 20:56 #
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schwerpunk
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This is genuinely exciting. Great find, Archy!

Old Post 03-30-13 23:44 #
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Eris Falling
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Archy said:

Ew



What's wrong with EDuke32?

Old Post 03-30-13 23:46 #
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Archy
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It's like ZDoom, completely messes up the physics and thus the very way the game is played. It's great for advanced mods and such but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when playing stock maps.

Purely personal opinion obviously, but I've always hated ports -- of any game -- that mess with the physics. Besides visually, it not at all the same game to me (which isn't necessarily a negative when considering mods).

Old Post 03-30-13 23:51 #
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188DarkRevived
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^That's strange. I prefer eDuke32 and GZDOOM and DoomsdayEngine for all maps, regardless of whether they're custom-built or not.

Old Post 03-31-13 01:07 #
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Archy
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It also depends on the custom map too; for example: I would not enjoy playing Alien Vendetta on an advanced port, but I have not problem playing Nuts in Zdoom (though I'd prefer PrBoom).

Old Post 03-31-13 01:26 #
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Archy
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With the "vid_mode 22" command, Vanilla Quake can also be played at 848x480 widescreen:
http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/q574/ArchyMcMuffin/quake_000.png

This is getting interesting... 848x480 must have some significance.

Old Post 03-31-13 08:09 #
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Maes
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Archy said:
This is getting interesting... 848x480 must have some significance.


While computer CRT monitors usually weren't widescreen by then, there were VR headsets, widescreen CRT TVs and of course video projectors that could accept a "wide" 480i signal -or even a direct VGA input, so such a mode wasn't entirely a useless gimmick as it might first appear.

That particular resolution is simply the closest 16:9 upscaling of a 480 lines vertical resolution (compatible with most equipment and TV standards, at the time).

Old Post 03-31-13 11:58 #
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schwerpunk
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Archy said:
With the "vid_mode 22" command, Vanilla Quake can also be played at 848x480 widescreen:
http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums...n/quake_000.png

This is getting interesting... 848x480 must have some significance.

It could be that my FitzQuake install is messing with my vanilla "QUAKE.EXE," but that didn't seem to work for me. The same thing happened if I enter 'vid_mode "22"' in the config.cfg.

In any case, it wouldn't solve my primary problem: which is that Quake 1 runs very poorly for me in DOSbox.

P.S. not a software thing, but an additional bit of trivia: In DirectQII setting 'vid_mode' to '666' gives you the resolution 1920x1080. **

Old Post 03-31-13 13:24 #
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Archy
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I just tried "vid_mode 22" in DOSBox and it didn't work. "vid_mode 21" produced 848x480 just fine though.

This means that "vid_mode xx" produces something different on each system.

Example of "vid_describemodes" in DOSBox-0.74:
http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/q574/ArchyMcMuffin/quake_000-1.png

Example of "vid_describemodes" in DOSBox SVN Daum 01-07-2013:
http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/q574/ArchyMcMuffin/quake_005.png


schwerpunk said:
In any case, it wouldn't solve my primary problem: which is that Quake 1 runs very poorly for me in DOSbox.

If it matters to you, I might be able to get Quake working smoothly on DOSBox on your computer.

Old Post 03-31-13 20:19 #
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Archy
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Major math fail!

848x480 is not a 16:9 resolution, it's a 53:30 resolution -- or 16:9.05660377357.

That's what I get for just merely glancing at Microsoft Calc:

16/9:                                      848/480:
http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/q574/ArchyMcMuffin/bandicam2013-03-3115-41-13-910.jpg http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/q574/ArchyMcMuffin/bandicam2013-03-3115-41-26-241.jpg

Old Post 03-31-13 21:44 #
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schwerpunk
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That would be nice, Archy. I've tried diddling with the dosbox.conf, but to no avail. I've heard that Microsoft Virtual PC works well with Quake, but I would really rather not go digging for my old install disks.

Old Post 03-31-13 21:44 #
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Archy
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@schwerpunk
What is the equivalent of doom.wad/doom2.wad/tnt.wad/plutonia.wad in Quake? I'm planning on sending you a zip file like this and I don't want to contribute to warez.

Basically it will contain everything except the game.

Old Post 03-31-13 21:55 #
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BoldEnglishman
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Pak0 and Pak1 I believe.

Old Post 03-31-13 22:10 #
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Vaporizer
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Pak0 contains most assets and the shareware episode. Pak1 is proprietary, it contains episodes 2-4.

Old Post 03-31-13 22:14 #
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Archy
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Okay, before I send you a whole bunch of stuff, some questions:
How many Gigahertz does your CPU have per core?
How much RAM do you have?
What is the resolution of your monitor? (Example: 1600x900)
Can your computer play Glboom-plus in full-screen?
What OS do you have and is it 32 or 64 bit? (If it's 16 bit, don't even bother.)
Do you use DOSBox to play other games?
If yes to the above question, do they play well?

Old Post 03-31-13 22:19 #
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Vaporizer
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Archy said:
Major math fail!

Not really - there's a reason why it's not exact. Check Maes' post above: http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthr...849#post1157849

Old Post 03-31-13 22:22 #
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Archy
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I meant it's a major math fail on my part, as I should have realized it's not a true 16:9 ratio, especially after Maes said, "That particular resolution is simply the closest 16:9 upscaling of a 480 lines vertical resolution..."

Obviously, the game has a legitimate reason for using a 53:30 instead of a 16:9, and that is the exact opposite of a fail.

Old Post 03-31-13 22:29 #
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schwerpunk
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Hey Archy, here's the info you requested. Posting it in the thread in case your advice can help anyone else, too:

1)It's a dual core CPU @ 2.53GHz (per core, I don't know).
2)4GB of RAM
3)Monitor's native resolution is 1920x1080
4)I can run Glboom-plus in full-screen well.
5)OS is Windows 7 Pro (64 bit)
6)I use DOSBox for Duke3D, Shadow Warrior, and Blood - although all suffer from mouse lag.
So 7), no they do not play 'well.'

I've tried switching "core=auto" to "core=dynamic" in the dosbox.conf, as well as Ctrl+F12/F11-ing through different clock speeds, but this doesn't seem to help my fundamental problems much (mouse lag in Build Engine, low FPS in QUAKE.exe (at higher resolutions (like the vid_mode 21 you describe))).

Thanks again for your help, man. I really appreciate it.

Old Post 04-01-13 17:19 #
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Archy
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schwerpunk said:
6)I use DOSBox for Duke3D, Shadow Warrior, and Blood - although all suffer from mouse lag.
So 7), no they do not play 'well.'


Besides mouse lag, do these games play all-right? Do you use BMOUSE (if you don't know, just say "no")?

After that is answered, I'd should be ready to go.

Old Post 04-02-13 01:25 #
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schwerpunk
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Archy: Other than the mouse-lag, they run perfectly. And no, I don't know about 'BMOUSE.'

Old Post 04-02-13 03:06 #
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Archy
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Tomorrow or the day after I'll have a DOSBox configured. I'm not 100% sure I can fix the issues but I'm pretty sure I can improve upon them.

In the mean time, try this for Quake.


Add the two Pak file to "\DOSBox-0.74\DOS\QUAKE\ID1" and then run "Quake.bat" from "\DOSBox-0.74"

It may or may not work, but it's a quick fix that works for many people.

Also, some more questions:
Do you have Duke3d Atomic Edition and One Unit Whole Blood?

Last edited by Archy on 04-03-13 at 01:57

Old Post 04-02-13 03:23 #
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schwerpunk
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Running Quake.bat launched DosBox, did some stuff too quickly to read, then closed. So it doesn't seem to work.

Re Duke3D & Blood: It is One Unit Whole Blood, and just standard Duke3D - the one that PC Gamer released for free a long while ago.

Old Post 04-02-13 14:26 #
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printz
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Isn't 640x400 already wide-screen? Aspect ratio correction be damned, that would still fill the 8:5 display nicely.

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Old Post 04-02-13 16:41 #
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Archy
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Did you double click Quake.bat? If yes then you do did the correct thing.

Did you put PAK0.PAK and PAK1.PAK in "\DOSBox-0.74\DOS\QUAKE\ID1" (Sorry for leaving out the "DOS" in the previous post)?

Is PAK0.PAK 8,689,235 bytes?
Is PAK1.PAK 34,257,856 bytes?

Old Post 04-03-13 02:00 #
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schwerpunk
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Archy said:Did you put PAK0.PAK and PAK1.PAK in "\DOSBox-0.74\DOS\QUAKE\ID1" (Sorry for leaving out the "DOS" in the previous post)?
Ah, now it works. Still mouse-laggy and choppy, though.


Archy said:Is PAK0.PAK 8,689,235 bytes?
Is PAK1.PAK 34,257,856 bytes?

My PAK0.PAK is about 10,000,000 bytes over. It's obese. :C

EDIT: Rooting through my old CDs I found Battlecruiser 3000AD, a collection of ZIP discs that will never again be used, Quake II & III, but no Quake I. Does the Steam version come with the PAK files? I may just grab that if I have to.

Last edited by schwerpunk on 04-03-13 at 02:25

Old Post 04-03-13 02:16 #
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