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Dragonsbrethren
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Kontra Kommando said:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technolog...n-4-at-a-glance

I think the share button is pretty stupid; I'd probably never press it, unless by accident. Perhaps it should have been something that you can utilize in the system's interface, instead of giving it a button all it's own. None of my friends give a fuck about the video games I play, and vice versa. It's almost as dumb as the share buttons on porn sites.


For you. Streaming's getting pretty big, if you haven't taken notice, and I think it's brilliant to integrate it right into the console.

Old Post 06-20-13 00:54 #
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Quasar
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Oh there will be all kinds of ifs ands and buts around this, just like for PS4. Just read between the lines a bit. Like...

  • Microsoft won't require an online connection. But publishers can optionally always will require it on their own games.
  • Microsoft won't prevent you from sharing your games. But publishers can optionally always will do it, using a system supported whole-heartedly by Microsoft.

Color me severely skeptical. This amount of backtracking that fast can only indicate an ace up the sleeve. Microsoft's never caved to consumer pressure that significantly before, on anything.

Old Post 06-20-13 00:54 #
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scalliano
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This just in ...

]It appears that in all of their post-E3 excitement Sony done fucked up again, too.

Fortunately, there appears to be a fix (untested, haven't been on my PS3 in a few days).

Old Post 06-20-13 01:02 #
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Jodwin
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Quasar said:
Color me severely skeptical. This amount of backtracking that fast can only indicate an ace up the sleeve. Microsoft's never caved to consumer pressure that significantly before, on anything.

Assuming consumers being the only ones mad about it. The real beast is the retail market, Gamestop and friends, that really would rather Microsoft and Sony not prevent used game sales. No doubt there was a lot of politics going on behind the curtains to the effect of "Either you drop the DRM, or we won't stock your games motherfuckers."

Old Post 06-20-13 05:58 #
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BloodyAcid
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Time for MS to doggedly follow in the footsteps of PS4, redoing every aspect as a "new" and "improved", "we didn't mention it to you at E3", "hidden" feature bundled with the Xbox One.

Old Post 06-20-13 06:37 #
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Bucket
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Microsoft's official announcement is full of typical glad-handing and meticulously constructed, substance-free messaging. "We are committed to providing gamers with the best experience!" "We listened to your comments, and we gave you what you want!" What do you want, a fucking cookie? I suppose the response I should be conveying is bootlicking gratitude, since I FINALLY have a console company who is LISTENING to me...? And I'm supposed to believe that your oppressive DRM and online requirements were your idea of providing gamers what they want, until they so humbly informed you otherwise, and then you moved Heaven and Earth so we could have it our way? Horseshit.

See - if my needs were actually being met, I wouldn't have much at all to say so there would be no need to "listen" to my needs. Not only did you throw your legion of shills behind this polished turd of a console, you insulted the intelligence of your detractors until your marketeers did the math. You can tongue-polish my wrinkly taint, you scumbags. My money is going to the game company that knew not to fuck with my gaming experience in the first place; that's how THAT works.

Old Post 06-20-13 07:29 #
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Avoozl
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I think the idea is that they're giving you what you want but on the condition that you have to put up with drm in return, but what the point really is is that it's not something people want to put up with regardless.

However I despise drm completely no matter if it's on pc or console, I'm not in a position to get better internet and I could only really put up with a simple once after each install online cd key check, not software that is combined with other things which increase the amount of updates needed even when I only want to use one part of the software.

Last edited by Avoozl on 06-20-13 at 09:44

Old Post 06-20-13 09:37 #
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Technician
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http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update
Last week at E3, the excitement, creativity and future of our industry was on display for a global audience.

You told us how much you loved the flexibility you have today with games delivered on disc. The ability to lend, share, and resell these games at your discretion is of incredible importance to you. Also important to you is the freedom to play offline, for any length of time, anywhere in the world.

So, today I am announcing the following changes to Xbox One and how you can play, share, lend, and resell your games exactly as you do today on Xbox 360. Here is what that means:

An internet connection will not be required to play offline Xbox One games After a one-time system set-up with a new Xbox One, you can play any disc based game without ever connecting online again. There is no 24 hour connection requirement and you can take your Xbox One anywhere you want and play your games, just like on Xbox 360.

Trade-in, lend, resell, gift, and rent disc based games just like you do today There will be no limitations to using and sharing games, it will work just as it does today on Xbox 360.

In addition to buying a disc from a retailer, you can also download games from Xbox Live on day of release. If you choose to download your games, you will be able to play them offline just like you do today. Xbox One games will be playable on any Xbox One console -- there will be no regional restrictions.

We appreciate your passion, support and willingness to challenge the assumptions of digital licensing and connectivity. While we believe that the majority of people will play games online and access the cloud for both games and entertainment, we will give consumers the choice of both physical and digital content. We have listened and we have heard loud and clear from your feedback that you want the best of both worlds.

Thank you again for your candid feedback. Our team remains committed to listening, taking feedback and delivering a great product for you later this year.

Old Post 06-20-13 18:47 #
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Glaice
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Hahaha, backpedaling.

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Old Post 06-20-13 19:00 #
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scalliano
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The other side of the argument.

Discuss.

Old Post 06-20-13 20:42 #
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Gez
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scalliano said:
The other side of the argument.

Discuss.



The objectionable part to the change is this:

Downloaded titles cannot be shared or resold. Also, similar to today, playing disc based games will require that the disc be in the tray.

Those are spiteful reactions from Microsoft. Neither of these things were needed.


The system they had in place for trading and sharing digital games? They didn't need to axe it. It was not a logical requirement in order to allow disc-based exchanges.

It was also perfectly possible to use something like "disc-based DRM if offline; network-based DRM if no disc in tray; only complain if both disc and connection are missing". (See? A solution that lets you keep being DRM-touting paranoid douchebags, but without being too annoying to the customer! How novel!)

Furthermore:


Gizmodo said:
The 24-hour check-in would have been necessary for the X1's store, which it is not for Steam, because the physical product (game discs) would still be available. This check-in, literally bytes of data exchanged, would confirm that the games installed were not gaming the system in a convoluted install-here-and-then-go-offline-and-I'll-go-home-and-check-in-and-go-offline-too-and-we'll-both-use-the-game methods.

No, Gizmodo. That wouldn't have been necessary.

First, it's a paranoid approach that makes the customers feel like they're presumed guilty. Secondly, if you have an online license transfer scheme going on, both accounts need to be online so removing the game from Alice's library happens at the same time it's added to Bob's. "But", you'll say, "licenses are tied to people not hardware! Alice could, like, buy one Xbox for game A, then another on which she trades it away and installs game B, and a third Xbox on which she trades game B and installs game C, and so on!" Well, then, have a cookie, Microsoft. You have indeed invented a mechanism that would require daily connections to be foiled. It's also a system that requires buying one $500-priced device in order to skimp on a $60-priced game.

TL;DR: yeah, on some point, the Xbox got worse. But it's not the complainers' fault; it's entirely Microsoft's because they insist on being a bunch of asshats; possibly out of spite.

Old Post 06-20-13 21:00 #
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scalliano
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Found this on Reddit: http://i.imgur.com/sUhenuw.jpg

The above image is entirely plausible, so yeah, MS are still being arseholes.

As I explained over on the ZDoom topic, the part of that article that really got my back up was this:


Gizmodo said:

The real fear behind DRM on games is the idea that at some point in the future, you'll be told that you are no longer allowed to use the content you'e paid for. It's that you're "allowed" to use anything at all, instead of outright "owning" it. And in the past, shitty DRM has absolutely worked like that. Walmart MP3s and the like have taken their servers offline, stranding file formats and leaving them to die, forgotten.

That is not how DRM, by and large, works today. There is very little risk of any particular format dying off. The dangers, as such, lie in a dropoff of support, or at worst, confiscation. That for whatever reason, Microsoft would tell us to screw ourselves and stop supporting Xbox One games, or kick you, specifically, out.



Little risk at first, perhaps, but the OG XBox servers have been offline since 2010. It is only a matter of time before the 360 servers follow suit. When the next next gen rolls around, you can bet your arse the 180's servers will be shut down, too. Then what?

Old Post 06-20-13 21:16 #
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Technician
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Just give me a fucking disk so I can play the damn game twenty years from now.

Old Post 06-20-13 22:00 #
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Dragonsbrethren
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Thinking digital distribution will be cheaper is somewhat logical...until you look at Steam and see how many publishers are charging the same price as retail at launch, and oftentimes higher than retail months after a game's release. I have no reason to believe the Xbone shop would be any different.

That Gizmodo article is a joke. Like Gez said, the only real complaints about this change are coming from MS being spiteful. They definitely want articles like that written, to get their fanboys riled up, so they can reimplement this BS and claim they were again catering the a public outcry.

Old Post 06-21-13 00:06 #
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Bucket
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Spiteful.
Exactly.
The same kind of wildly missing the point that prompted them to re-introduce the Start Menu in Win8.1... which takes you to the Start Screen.

Old Post 06-21-13 00:13 #
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scalliano
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This whole affair just makes me cringe. Microsoft's arrogance at the reveal and at E3 surpassed even my expectations. I thought that Sony made a henry's of the PS3 launch, but how MS have handled their customers' concerns is probably even more deplorable than the DRM strategy itself. First, they can't get their own story straight - there's conflicting information flying in all directions. Then, when they finally do get it together, it becomes clear why they were so cagey in the first place. Surely they knew there would be a backlash. They cancel the post-E3 Q&A, and perpetuate their belligerence in front of the cameras by telling those people with limited/no internet that they can essentially go fuck themselves and stick with the 360. This came to a head on Saturday when Angry Joe got hold of Major Nelson, who went on the offensive following some firm-but-fair questions.

Finally, four days after being told that they can't just flip a switch and make it go away, that is exactly what they do.

What kills me about that twat on Gizmodo is this attitude that modern DRM is perfectly reliable and we would never be fucked over these days the same way we used to be 5-10 years ago. AC2? SimCity? PS3 leap-year glitch?

Still, it's reassuring that MS listened to people's concerns.
http://i.imgur.com/s985blg.jpg
Then again ...

Old Post 06-21-13 00:46 #
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Jodwin
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Technician said:
Just give me a fucking disk so I can play the damn game twenty years from now.

Cloud.

What MS themselves does with DRM doesn't necessarily mean anything at all, if the games themselves require an online connection for whatever reason.

Old Post 06-21-13 07:39 #
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Sokoro
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Xbox and PS3 can do whatever they want.. I am not going to buy them.
Personal computer is still a superior device and I will stick with it.
User have much more control over a computer than over the consoles.. and I love to have things under my control.

Old Post 06-24-13 11:20 #
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Kontra Kommando
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Sokoro said:
Xbox and PS3 can do whatever they want.. I am not going to buy them.
Personal computer is still a superior device and I will stick with it.
User have much more control over a computer than over the consoles.. and I love to have things under my control.



I've decided to wait until I get my tax-return before I spend over a G on a powerful gaming PC. All of the games that are coming out for Xbox One and PS4 are largely unimpressive, even graphically. I've have the majesty and spender of Rome II: Total War to look forward to.

(I know I talk about that game a lot, but I'm that excited for it.)

Old Post 06-24-13 15:49 #
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