Captain Red said: With regards to the original review that kicked off this wonderful little tangent, I'd been nice if she'd cited an example of where this game being misogynistic that I can judge for myself.
That's exactly what I thought about the review. The one example given is such an obvious parody that it just made that whole part of the review seem like a pointless tangent.
I'd like a female protagonist too, but I'm probably in the minority that I want them to stop writing the playable characters in GTA. It just doesn't work for me, Tommy in VC was handled good, but as soon as they started the "nice guy" angle in SA and GTA4 there was just too much disconnect between what I was doing in the game and what my character was doing in the missions. I really preferred GTA3 where your guy just got orders and never really interacted with his "bosses".
Now some sort of branching story with conversation choices, like an RPG, that I could get behind. Let my character be mine in this kind of game.
Last edited by Dragonsbrethren on 09-19-13 at 22:48
R* in general seems to prefer being the ones in charge of the plot, grand decisions, etc. I'm surprised they even let you choose what clothes your character wears during the in-game cutscenes.
Re satire: a lot of what GTA portrays is satire, but it goes a bit further than it has to. IMHO, their 'satire' borders on a scatelogical fascination with the topics they supposedly poke fun at. Perhaps I'm wrong, but that is the feeling I get.
Everything in GTA is most certainly satire, and I don't entirely understand how that's so hard to grasp. I guess people are just too used to hamfisted parody like in Saints Row to see, but there's almost nothing going on in any of the GTA games that isn't some kind of jab at some contemporary event or topic. I may be alone in thinking that the writers at Rockstar are nothing short of genius in every respect.
Nomad said: Everything in GTA is most certainly satire, and I don't entirely understand how that's so hard to grasp. I guess people are just too used to hamfisted parody like in Saints Row to see, but there's almost nothing going on in any of the GTA games that isn't some kind of jab at some contemporary event or topic. I may be alone in thinking that the writers at Rockstar are nothing short of genius in every respect.
Unless you can show me very, very explicit proof, I'm going to laugh you off. I see women constantly being treated as equals, shouldn't that be enough to shut up the bandwagoners?
It's a dog-eat-dog world, and it looks like the pup that's feminism is going to have a rather large chunk taken out of it.
(also, there's no such thing as privilege, it's just silly Tumblrisms.)
Yes there is such thing as privilege which the proof is being displayed in this thread at this current moment yet you deny it because you have accepted your own supremacy.
I treat women the same way I treat men. Actually, better (guess that makes me sexist), because I have decent values.
Your views on the subject, on the other hand, are so pathetic that I think you're actually detrimental to people fighting against real discrimination against women. I certainly wouldn't want you speaking for me, were I in their place.
You're the delusional one here, buddy.
Actually one thing I noticed that you shift matters around you while ignoring oppressed/marginalized people's matters which shows how rather egotistical/narcissistic privileged people can be.
A Delusional person calling a educated person "Delusional"....
I know enough to recognize you for a ridiculous moron that does feminism a huge disservice by acting like a militaristic feminazi. You're like one of those Poe feminist parodic websites that want to put trousers on poodles so that offended women don't have to look at dogs strutting around their symbol of dominance openly. You'll most likely chase away most of the feminists and sympathetic folks by your aggressive phallus-toppling agenda that doesn't recognize anything short of utter submission to whatever you preach after starting with "unchecked privilege as a male". Enticing a gender war will get you exactly nowhere. Here's a funny quote you may froth over at the mouth until you choke:
I think you lost all creditability when you use the word "feminazi" which a term ironically invented by right winger conservatives like Rush Limbaugh that many of you hate so much yet you use their vocabulary which is how they influenced people like you without even knowing, how funny.
One thing I do notice about mainstream gaming communities such as this one that are very hostile to political action which people come here for entertainment not for elevation. I guess I'm a
masochist for even discussing this in here.
Last edited by Nightmare Doom on 09-20-13 at 18:51
^^You've been watching Anita Sarkeesian videos haven't you?
What are the first interests of a games company, maximising profit, so for a GTA game, I guess the majority of players will be male, so I guess to maximise profits they will design a game which will have a male lead which will attempt to immerse the gamer and given the nature of the Grand Theft Auto series it's likely that there is going to be some sexualisation of women. There's no point to play the sexism card here because corporate CEOs don't give a damn unless they are making lots of money, sorry they just don't.
The reviewer's point is perfectly valid but in the end it should be viewed by all parties as a "meh" and simply move on.
Nightmare Doom said: One thing I do notice about mainstream gaming communities such as this one-
That's it, this is where I lost it. You're a loonie, aren't you? Actually, I bet you're waging this same war on several different forums, reusing your own phrases over and over. Then something this stupid happens, because you forgot to check which forum you're posting to. A true internet hero.
Let's look at the last few "modern" games I've played (in order of the last time I played it even for 5 seconds) and what the playable character in my game was. GTA IV (so far a black guy and a white guy), Saints Row IV (I played a white woman), Starcraft: Heart of the Swarm (I played a um...alien blob), Borderlands 2 (I played a Mexican man and a white woman), Guild Wars 2 (I played a "brown" woman), Mass Effect 3 (I played a "brown" woman), Skyrim (I played a white woman), Call of Duty Black Ops 2 (I played a white man), Rise of the Triad (I played an Asian Woman), Tomb Raider (I played a white woman), Far Cry 3 (I played a white guy)... and in like half of those games I could make my character whatever the fuck I wanted. (Brown = ambiguously brown race of unexplained ethnicity).
But remember guys 99% of all game protagonists are white males (excluding all the Japanese games with Japanese leads...and the billions of games where you play as a mass of pixels or some other random thing that isn't even human.) Now lets continue bitching about non-issues like this instead of complaining about important things like shitty writing. Man I sure enjoy how Franklin keeps doing shit with Lamar despite bitching about not wanting to do it and having the ability to just NOT DO IT. At least in San Andres CJ had his brother as a reason to do shit.
From what I've observed, Lamar is the comic relief in Franklin's storyline. Although the last mission I played with him (hint: it's the one where Lamar meets Trevor) was pure action movie fodder. So maybe the game is heading away from that now.
I really hope the game doesn't get too serious from this point on.
Jimothy said: (Did I mention it's people like you that make feminism look so bad?)
Nope but it seems that it was hinted plenty of times. On topic: I haven't played GTA since San Andreas and Vice City (played a bit of IV before and it seemed okay). I wonder if this actually holds a candle to SA.
I was being sarcastic, bud. Calm down.
Yeah, I gathered that you were hence the ;) but I wasn't being sarcastic or joking for that matter.
I haven't really played a GTA game since...I believe it was GTA 3? I can't really remember, though I know it was pre-IV. I'm not too sure I want GTA V, seeing as I'm happy with Payday 2, but I'll just roll with the punches.
South Park does have pretty brilliant social commentary, but I'd sooner compare it to Saint's Row than GTA
I have never played Saint's Row. Any of them. I had a roommate who played those games pretty religiously and as an outsider watching him play, they take everything that's great about GTA and ramp the customizability up to eleven. But I have played many GTAs, so, just going with what I know. I'm pretty much in agreement with what you said.
I played GTA V for the first time last night, at my friend's house. I didn't get a chance to play any missions; didn't plan to, it was just the three of us taking turns going on suicidal kill sprees. Based on what I saw, they have improved very little on the game engine since GTA IV. The graphics are not very good either. Nevertheless, my little brother is going to buy it, so I'll probably play the main story at least once. But honestly, I don't see what the big fucking deal is.
Kontra Kommando said: I played GTA V for the first time last night, at my friend's house. I didn't get a chance to play any missions; didn't plan to, it was just the three of us taking turns going on suicidal kill sprees. Based on what I saw, they have improved very little on the game engine since GTA IV. The graphics are not very good either. Nevertheless, my little brother is going to buy it, so I'll probably play the main story at least once. But honestly, I don't see what the big fucking deal is.
Well, it's definitely the same engine, but as much as I'm jaded toward modern, 'realistic' grapics, even I think that GTA V is a beautiful looking game. Maybe not as aesthetically rich as Read Dead Redemption, but still very detail-oriented and fantastically lit.
Re gameplay: I think if you're a fan of these types of games, and you get a chance to sit down on your own and just witness the vast sandbox that's spread out before you, it's hard not to get a little open-world chub going on.
I always thought the appeal GTA was pretty obvious to anyone who's live in or near a city and/or ever liked an action movie. Not to mention they're technical marvels. GTA IV was probably the last game that awed me and I say that as someone who thought Crysis wasn't super impressive looking.
It's like when people say the don't get why people want games to be realistic. Uh, You don't? Not at all? You don't see why people would enjoy doing things that are not possible or practical in real life?
YOU CAN'T CUT BACK ON FUNDING! YOU WILL REGRET THIS!
Oh boy, Tumblr "feminism" has come to Doomworld. Not like I post here anymore anyway, so I don't know why I care. Look, people are people, so you have to treat them as such. Being assravaged because some game didn't have a strong female lead then blaming it on all the white males in the world just makes you a whiny asshole. Also, white knighting to get yourself pussy just means you're a huge faggot and a bigger misogynist than anyone who has fun playing a Grand Theft Auto game.
More on topic, I wish I could play GTA V just based on the facts that it has a huge fucking map, the graphics are nice, and it looks like it has a lot of neat features in it. Being a welfare case myself, I can't afford it or a console to run it on, so I'll probably wait until the PC version is on Steam for $20. So in 2-3 years. In the meantime, I've been inspired to play San Andreas again and maybe actually finish it this time. If I get through that, I also have Vice City and GTA 4 to work on as well. And I haven't even touched Just Cause 2 or Burnout: Paradise.
Also, tertiary side note: I came to the conclusion that despite being a more over-the-top over-sexualized hyper-violent clone of the GTA series, Saints Row 3 alone has more well-written female characters than the entirety of the GTA series. It even lets you play as a woman if you want.
Really dislike the idea of regen health even if it's partially, they at least could've added a mode to disable it but no, after time I've found regen health makes a game very boring and feel I less likely want to play it much then.
I was only ever okay with games such as Crysis having regen health because of the suit but as long as there's a HUD display for how much you have, I hated that Crysis 2 didn't have it.
Even once the game does get a boxed pc release I will hold off on buying it until it's cheap priced.