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geo
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I've been testing several games with the XBox 360 controller and it works really well for most games. I've run into problems with a few games the require joy to key. Basically no gamepad support unless you bind keys to your gamepad. My last gamepad worked like that. It was always a pain to setup. On top of that to play the games I had to load the profile even if there was an auto load when you start certain .exes but a software update kinda prevented it from working.

A few games also have preloaders where you adjust the settings before going into the game. Even if they work specifically with 360 controllers, they don't work with the preloader. Still need a mouse.

That's another thing the 360 controller doesn't seem to be able to double as a mouse like my old controller. Oh well. Valve will probably controller button support all of its old games that don't have gamepad support.

Some games don't have the Steam overlay and so the 'Steam Big Picture button' (xbox logo button) doesn't work so I end up having to use a mouse anyway. While Big Picture mode isn't Steam OS I still need a mouse for my living room.

Last edited by geo on 09-26-13 at 01:48

Old Post 09-26-13 01:31 #
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DooM_RO
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So is this exclusive for the Steam Machine or will it work on any PC?

Old Post 09-26-13 05:43 #
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geo
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SteamOS will work for any computer supposedly.

Old Post 09-26-13 07:26 #
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bcwood16
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I guess on some level this is basically 'console' type of way to play games, but with the huge advantage of having the hardware that suits you!

If you play lots of FPS, get a high end graphics card, if you like strategy more maybe a better CPU instead. When things go out of date you dont have to wait 7 - 10 years for a new console with hardware thats still behind the times.

At first I thought what the hell are they doing, but thinking about it, if you mainly just play games on a PC, then this could be a way forward. You can spend what you want on a gaming machine...or even buy a ready made one.

Hopefully users can install their own software too such as Doom ports and stuff. Thats better then having Microsoft dictate every little thing.

Will it catch on....who knows, but its always good for consoles to have competition (even though we all know a PC eats a console for breakfast) a PC type of device is now in 'their' domain.....poor consoles :(

Old Post 09-26-13 09:58 #
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Jodwin
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bcwood16 said:
I guess on some level this is basically 'console' type of way to play games, but with the huge advantage of having the hardware that suits you!

If you play lots of FPS, get a high end graphics card, if you like strategy more maybe a better CPU instead. When things go out of date you dont have to wait 7 - 10 years for a new console with hardware thats still behind the times.

At first I thought what the hell are they doing, but thinking about it, if you mainly just play games on a PC, then this could be a way forward. You can spend what you want on a gaming machine...or even buy a ready made one.

Hopefully users can install their own software too such as Doom ports and stuff. Thats better then having Microsoft dictate every little thing.

Will it catch on....who knows, but its always good for consoles to have competition (even though we all know a PC eats a console for breakfast) a PC type of device is now in 'their' domain.....poor consoles :(


There's a couple of issues and/or flaws in that line of thinking though:

1) If all you want is to play PC games on TV with max settings, you can already plug your PC in or use a wireless HDMI (which Steam Big picture does, too).

2) SteamBoxes will, most likely, be more restricted with what you can do with the hardware. I'm expecting small "media PCs" rather than normal ATX towers, so assuming that you can just buy one and then upgrade it later might be a flawed way of thinking.

3) Even then, according to the introduction page on SteamOS by Valve, the OS can play "hundreds" of games on Steam natively while everything else (read: any game without Linux support) will be streamed from your PC:

Valve said:
Hundreds of great games are already running natively on SteamOS. Watch for announcements in the coming weeks about all the AAA titles coming natively to SteamOS in 2014. Access the full Steam catalog of nearly 3000 games and desktop software titles via in-home streaming.

(http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamOS/)

What this means is that sure you can play, say, BlackOps 2 on SteamOS by streaming the video from your bedroom PC to the Steambox, but it will also have some input and display lag as a result of that as the Steambox will be working as a middleman between your controller and PC, and your TV and PC. Plus, you'll need some way to connect your PC with the Steambox and that probably isn't going to be free either.


Basically, the only "smart" use for the Steambox would be playing native Linux games on Steam on your TV - but even then you could be using your PC so...meh.

Old Post 09-26-13 11:04 #
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bcwood16
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Yea.....good points Jodwin

If you have a decent PC running everything you want....why dumb it down :(

Still, its worth following for a bit and see how it evolves.

Old Post 09-26-13 11:07 #
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geo
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TotalBiscuit mentioned that Steam Boxes will stream from your PC and that might mean Steam Box will be less powerful than your PC. But maybe that's so your Steam Box can play Windows exclusive games like GTA 4 will always require Windows Live.

I continued to play Big Picture mode with a 360 controller and there are constant issues. Issues like I go to play Fez, I click on Fez and try to play Fez. It tells me I can adjust the options for Fez... or play Sacred. What? Sacred? Yet I can update Fez's options.

When I play TF2 with an Xbox controller it fucks up my PC controls on my PC. I need to reset all of my controls on an entirely different machine.

Steam seems to lock up lately on my PC, laptop and fake Steam Box.

Another thing, since its my first time playing on a 360 controller since the Original X-Box I think that how one thumb stick is higher on the controller face, your right wrist gets strained. >> http://www.joystiq.com/2009/04/20/m...t-radiation-po/

I keep finding more and more cracks. Maybe SteamOS will fix them, but for now if I still need to use a mouse 1% of the time with a controller enabled game, that's an issue.

Old Post 09-26-13 16:17 #
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Jodwin
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geo said:
TotalBiscuit mentioned that Steam Boxes will stream from your PC and that might mean Steam Box will be less powerful than your PC. But maybe that's so your Steam Box can play Windows exclusive games like GTA 4 will always require Windows Live.

Are you kidding me? Of course Steam Box will be less powerful than a mid-high end PC, unless there'll be some really ridiculous premium b0xes. They would just be way too expensive to make for a market that is entirely untested. Also, since SteamOS is basically a Linux distro, it can only run Linux games natively. How many Linux titles are there on Steam that would require higher end specs again?

Yeah, not too many. So from that point of view as well there's very little reason to sell beefy Steam Boxes. The PC streaming's purpose is two-fold: To let you play games that require more from your hardware, and to let you play games that aren't ported to Linux. That is all.

Also, Games for Windows Live will be shut down Jan 1st 2014, so that's none of Steam's concern.

Old Post 09-26-13 16:55 #
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geo
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I'd think it would be as powerful as PS4 and XB1. That's why I can't imagine Steam releasing their own actual box or boxes. All they need is the OS. I can't imagine them struggling for elbow room against Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo. Meanwhile, gamers that want a Steam Box can just buy their own PC and install Steam OS if not just do what I did and install Steam where its the only thing on the PC and it starts right up and through Big Picture mode you can shut down the PC without going back to Windows.

Here's another thing, Steam has cheap games and constant sales. I already have a PC. X-Box and PS have the same indie games that usually come out the same day or months before Steam. Why do I need to buy another box? So I need to spend money for cheap games to wait months for PC versions of games?

MK was on sale on PS3 for $5 when it came to Steam for $30. Rayman Origins was the same. State of Decay, Guacamelee and Fez came to PC a month or several months after they were released.

Windows Live is being shut down? So I can't play GTA 4? I have other Windows Live games. Eh oh well. Whatever.

Old Post 09-26-13 17:24 #
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bcwood16
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geo said:
I
Windows Live is being shut down? So I can't play GTA 4? I have other Windows Live games. Eh oh well. Whatever.



Thank god for that, GFW was just the worst thing in the world! I know people say stuff like that about Steam and stuff, but I dont have any problems with that, but GFW was so problematic, it made me pull my hair out and im usually very patient and knowledgable with computers.

I actually have a game I cant play because I just cant get GFW to work with it even though its supposed to be integrated....even tried the hacked .DLL file replacer to bypass it. I used this on Fallout 3 and many other games and it made the game much more stable, quicker to load.....everything was better without it.

When I first got Gears of War for the PC (which was utterly disappointing) I actually got fed up playing it because the achievement pop up window used to de-focus me out the game and the achievement pop up used to come up ALOT...like every 20 seconds.

Im sure games that need GFW live to work will be patched to work without it or the community will get some hack going.

Oh....yay...just thought I may try and play Bat Man Arkym Asylum now if its patched for no GFW as that was another one that kept bugging out and messing stuff up. *rolls eyes*

The whole lot was a mess anyway, GFW was supposed to have a 'standard' such as every game with the logo meant you are guaranteed 100% that an Xbox controller would work with it, but in truth most of the time this support was not functional!

Old Post 09-27-13 11:24 #
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Satyr000
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Well, we now know Nivida is working with Valve to make their hardware compatible with SteamOS. http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/201...ty-for-steamos/

If ATI/AMD isn't working with Valve, its safe to say they will be now that Nvidia has confirmed support.

Old Post 09-27-13 13:50 #
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geo
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bcwood16 said:


Thank god for that, GFW was just the worst thing in the world! I know people say stuff like that about Steam and stuff, but I dont have any problems with that, but GFW was so problematic, it made me pull my hair out and im usually very patient and knowledgable with computers.

I actually have a game I cant play because I just cant get GFW to work with it even though its supposed to be integrated....even tried the hacked .DLL file replacer to bypass it. I used this on Fallout 3 and many other games and it made the game much more stable, quicker to load.....everything was better without it.

When I first got Gears of War for the PC (which was utterly disappointing) I actually got fed up playing it because the achievement pop up window used to de-focus me out the game and the achievement pop up used to come up ALOT...like every 20 seconds.

Im sure games that need GFW live to work will be patched to work without it or the community will get some hack going.

Oh....yay...just thought I may try and play Bat Man Arkym Asylum now if its patched for no GFW as that was another one that kept bugging out and messing stuff up. *rolls eyes*

The whole lot was a mess anyway, GFW was supposed to have a 'standard' such as every game with the logo meant you are guaranteed 100% that an Xbox controller would work with it, but in truth most of the time this support was not functional!



I remember here at Doomworld certain people backlashing against Steam but we disproved them. Arkam Asylum bugging out? Sounds like the pirate version?

Old Post 09-27-13 14:18 #
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MFG38
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DoomUK said:
What advantages does this have over playing PC games on your TV in the way that you already can?


None.

__________________
I am mad. I am Finnish. I am a gamer. But I don't know where the number 38 came from.

Old Post 09-27-13 14:32 #
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Phml
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I remember here at Doomworld certain people backlashing against Steam but we disproved them.


People choosing to do something more productive with their time than arguing with the loon sticking his fingers in his ears and screaming loudly does not mean said crazy dude has "disproved" their points.

There's really not much of a discussion to have in the first place. Some people have issues with Steam, some other people are too close-minded to accept the idea things that may not be relevant to them can be important to other people. End of story.

Old Post 09-27-13 15:21 #
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bcwood16
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geo said:


I remember here at Doomworld certain people backlashing against Steam but we disproved them. Arkam Asylum bugging out? Sounds like the pirate version?



Certainly not! I dont pirate games, I got Bat Man from Steam on a sale ages ago! However, it still needs GFW to run and it wouldn't let me sign in even though my password etc was all correct. It needed an automatic update which I allowed, but then had to manually download it, then remove some old DLL files, then resign into the website, then change my password, then do another update, then uninstall and re-install it etc etc....or something along those lines. Eventually I got in, but a few days later there was a new version of GFW, I updated and it all went to hell again.....I gave up and not played it since :(

In fact unless I 'really' want a game on GFW it turns me off getting it as I really really cant be doing GFW. I know it sounds drastic, but I really do hate it that much, not because of its functions or what it does, but the fact I find a virus more easier to deal with!.....yea I really hate GFW!

If patches come out for games to remove it, I may even re-look at their catalog!

Dont even know why its called Games for 'Windows' when its just crap xbox shit trying to tie us all together.....or what ever!! Shit....I really really do hate GFW!!

Old Post 09-27-13 15:35 #
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Jodwin
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http://media.steampowered.com/steam...mController.jpg

o_O

Okay, I won't say anything about how it looks or how (un)comfortable it may be - but that is a terrible pad for any kind of a platformer, brawler, beat 'em up, shmup or fighting game. Maybe it'll work for Doom, but holy crap that button layout is terrible.

Old Post 09-27-13 18:24 #
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schwerpunk
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Too much innovation, Valve! No one's asking you to reinvent the wheel, here. Buttons are good - people like buttons.

Is this official? Is like to read a bit more, but it doesn't look very... Fun. :/

Old Post 09-27-13 18:35 #
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Jodwin
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schwerpunk said:
Is this official?

http://store.steampowered.com/livin...teamController/

Old Post 09-27-13 18:45 #
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Dragonsbrethren
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The very last image on the page actually makes it look more comfortable than the rendering or diagram would suggest. I'm definitely not sold, though. This all in one approach seems to be excluding a huge number of genres that play better with a pad, as Jodwin pointed out, in favor of trying to duplicate a mouse and keyboard. I think a single trackpad and a traditional d-pad would be much better.

I actually kind of like that button layout. I can't imagine it being any worse than moving your thumb between buttons and analog stick. I'd have to try it to say for certain.

Edit: I do think this design is going to scare away the majority of (maybe not just) console players, though. I see this design as a huge compromise, since developers probably aren't willing to update their back catalogs. Even a lot of controller enabled games have dumb launchers that aren't controller enabled, which has been a flaw with Big Picture. Nothing like having to grab the mouse to click one thing.

Last edited by Dragonsbrethren on 09-27-13 at 19:09

Old Post 09-27-13 19:02 #
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Jodwin
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Dragonsbrethren said:
I actually kind of like that button layout. I can't imagine it being any worse than moving your thumb between buttons and analog stick. I'd have to try it to say for certain.

It's possibly fine for twin-stick games, but for games that use only the d-pad or just one stick it's a huge drawback. The left buttons are too far away from your other thumb, and the button layout makes it impossible to press two buttons at once with your thumb - which is almost a necessity for platformers with both jump and attack buttons.

Old Post 09-27-13 19:13 #
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Dragonsbrethren
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Yeah, that's something I'm concerned with. Valve seems to be going in favor of using the triggers, shoulders, whatever you call those buttons on the grips, and clickable trackpads over the actual buttons. I don't think it'll be easy convincing people they should be using two fingers for platformers instead of a thumb, though.

Old Post 09-27-13 19:25 #
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Jodwin
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Yup, and if I look at La-Mulana, for example, since it's the platformer I've played most recently: There's d-pad for movement, all of the four face buttons are used for jump, attack, sub weapon and equipped item and triggers are used for menus. The trigger setup you mentioned could be playable for NES-era platformers but when you need more buttons than that it gets a bit hairy. Also as an other point, if you need to use your secondary hand for either jump or shoot, it's going to be less effective than using your primary hand for both simultaneously...

Old Post 09-27-13 19:33 #
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Ralphis
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Couldn't the right touch pad likely be configured in a + sort of layout that represents face buttons depending on where you press?

Old Post 09-27-13 21:46 #
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exp(x)


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You know, you guys could still just use a wired Xbox 360 or other USB controller, depending on the game. This controller may work well for the type of games that are traditionally targeted for PC.

Old Post 09-27-13 23:53 #
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Satyr000
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Ralphis said:
Couldn't the right touch pad likely be configured in a + sort of layout that represents face buttons depending on where you press?


I'm pretty such you will be able to map it like that. They said the controller can be mapped to work with games that predate the SteamOS and controller.

So far the controller looks interesting and I would really like to give it a try.

Old Post 09-28-13 00:08 #
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geo
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Maybe I'll think differently once I use it, but wow I do not want to use that controller. It scared me away. Fuck that controller. Witchcraft.

edit >> Maybe I can't find it on the Portal 2 Steam controller config but.... THERE'S NO JUMP BUTTON. Last I recall, Portal 2 had a jump. They have a crouch button. They have 3 zoom buttons.

Oh and let's not forget how terrible Steam's customer support is. 2 weeks seems to be the minimum time when my friends and I have dealt with Steam support.

I remember when I accidentally bought Darksiders 1 for a friend instead of Darksiders 2 it took them 3 weeks to give me store credit. Even though it was an unopened copy since it was going to be given to a friend. They also warned me this would be the only time I could ever do it. When I called up Sony about a digital download for PS3 I accidentally bought it took them 3 days and they called me back when it was done. Plus they refunded the money instead of giving me store credit.

Another time I dealt with Steam support was because they blocked my account from purchasing things even though I had more than enough money in my Steam wallet and I have a valid paypal and several valid credit cards. When I contacted Steam support it took them 2 weeks to tell me the problem would be corrected shortly. It never was. So I told them and a month later they got back to me asking me why I have so many accounts. I told them I have 1 account. They told me my name is associated with several. So I asked if my credit cards or paypal were associated with more than just my account I was told no, just my name. I have a very common name like Bob Smith. Then they understood and just flipped a switch to allow me to buy stuff again. What's even more mind blowing is while I couldn't buy anything from Steam I could still use Steam community market perfectly fine. The whole thing took around 2 months to finally be settled. It made me think oh there are too many Bob Smiths therefore I can't buy games even though I already have money in Steam.

Last edited by geo on 09-28-13 at 14:10

Old Post 09-28-13 12:42 #
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Phobus
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The omission of a "jump" control from the Portal 2 layout is a bit off-putting, but if even half of the stuff they're saying about those trackpads is true then this is probably worth giving a shot. I'm most impressed that somebody finally thought to put buttons on the back of the controller handles (ignoring the Z button from the N64 controller, as that has 3 handles). I always think my Xbox 360 controllers would benefit from having buttons where my middle fingers tend to rest.

This doesn't look like it'll be wired, so I hope it has a decent rechargeable battery in it, given the touchscreen and fancy trackpads. I actually own wired Xbox360 controllers precisely because spending money on loads of batteries (or buying a rechargeable pack and charger) seems like a waste and my experience with controllers on other people's Xbox 360s, Wiis and PS3s running out of battery feels like a needless encumbrance.

Best thing about it is the configuration options though. Don't like the default way the keyboard/mouse mapping thing works for a game? Just reconfigure the inputs that the controller represents with the buttons/pads/screen commands to k/m inputs that seem most useful! I'm seeing that right trackpad being used to function as a traditional a/b/x/y diamond for games that only need one d-pad/analogue stick pretty quickly, for one thing.


Price will be the deciding factor here on if I get one, I reckon (well... horror stories might also put me off). All that tech sounds expensive to me!

Old Post 09-28-13 14:36 #
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Dragonsbrethren
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Jump on the Portal 2 layout is clicking the left trackpad, listed as SP on the layout (space is the default jump key, if anyone was unaware). Use is clicking the right pad.

Old Post 09-28-13 22:33 #
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Philnemba
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Personally would use that controller since I have some modern fps games on Steam that are too difficult for me to play with K&M(CoD MW3 & MoH mutiplayer are examples).

Old Post 09-30-13 19:25 #
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Dragonsbrethren
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Video of the controller in action. It definitely looks usable enough, although he probably would've been dead two times over in the time it took to line up those shots in CS:GO. I'm still not sold on the trackpad as a d-pad concept, I just don't think you'll get enough feedback from it for it to be really enjoyable to play that way. And then imagine trying to emulate a traditional button layout with the trackpad, that'll be even worse.

Edit:


Philnemba said:
Personally would use that controller since I have some modern fps games on Steam that are too difficult for me to play with K&M(CoD MW3 & MoH mutiplayer are examples).

I don't think this'll help, unless you mean you have a setup that just doesn't let you use a keyboard and mouse effectively. This is basically aiming with a less precise mouse, since it'll need to have much higher sensitivity to compensate for the small size of the pads.

The only real reason console shooters are so playable is because of aim assist mechanics: auto aim and (especially) bullet magnetism. Turn those off and anyone will struggle with them more than a mouse. You simply can't aim precisely with a thumbstick in the same way you can with a mouse.

Last edited by Dragonsbrethren on 10-11-13 at 22:19

Old Post 10-11-13 21:54 #
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