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Technician
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Memfis said:
What was the point of the above post.
I wasn't aware he reviewed Japanese video games, asshat.

Old Post 01-27-14 19:37 #
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GoatLord
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Ralphis said:
Don't know who he is but he sounds like a real piece of shit. Getting married, having a kid, and then shooting himself on the other side of a bathroom door while his wife tries to talk him out of it. Awesome dude. I'm sure the typical internet suicide/depression sympathizers are going to be in full force here but he was a selfish piece of garbage. Don't start a family and then take the bail in a way that traumatizes them forever.

What a piece of shit



Gonna have to agree with you here. Suicide isn't some effortless procedure. It takes a lot of audacity, and a complete refusal to try to better one's self. Many of us have contemplated suicide in our darkest moments, but what does it say about you, to live in a first world country, to have a wife and kids and a roof over your head, to find so much wrong with your life that it not only has to end, but has to on the most violent possible terms? I mean FUCK, come on.

Old Post 01-27-14 20:08 #
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Da Werecat
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Appreciate the precious gifts of civilized life, biatch.

Ahem.


Shaviro said:
All those rational thoughts are gone which is why getting out of that hole isn't a matter of getting a better job, losing the debt or being treated more kindly.


The problem is internal even if it has been triggered by external factors.

Old Post 01-27-14 20:28 #
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TimeOfDeath
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Does that guy actually have a kid, though? (I didn't see any mention of one in the OP or in the news article)

If he does, then I agree with the internet tough guys. You can't kill yourself after you've brought a kid into the world, regardless of whether it was his choice or the depression fairy's.

But if he didn't have a kid, I don't see a problem with that. Whenever a kid is born, they receive a free suicide card because their mother forced them into existence, and they can use the card whenever they want. But if that kid grows up and has a kid of their own, their free suicide card is voided. There really needs to be suicide booths around town like in Futurama. But of course, hopefully people who want to die can get out of that mindset and get better.

Old Post 01-27-14 21:18 #
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Quasar
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Time to hedge your bets on whether this had something to do with YouTube's rampant ContentID system flagging all his videos.

Old Post 01-27-14 23:06 #
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Wagi
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Mr. Freeze said:
I'm some kid with an immediate family, but no kids or signifigant other, and yet I FOUND THE WILLPOWER to continue.
Then you didn't have a mental illness, you fucking mouthbreather.

Old Post 01-28-14 01:57 #
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Clonehunter
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Honestly never heard of him, so I'm guessing I never saw those TGWTG things they're talking about, but, uh, why did he do it? Because of debt? I find it hard to sympathize will people who think they can simply end their problem by taking the pill, gunning the brain, or whatever. Worse when he HAS A GODDAMN FAMILY to leave behind, not to mention someone who clearly cares about him trying to talk him out of it (Reportedly) and trying to get him to put the gun down. But then he doesn't anyways. What the hell.

It's a tragedy for the family, but his death isn't justifiable.

Old Post 01-28-14 02:10 #
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Technician
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Wagi said:
Then you didn't have a mental illness, you fucking mouthbreather.
It seems like people are trying to pin rational thought onto someone who wasn't thinking rationally.

Even a person with millions of dollars, two platinum records and a new baby girl still managed to blow his brains out without a race of insight.

Old Post 01-28-14 02:48 #
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j4rio
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What if his wife actually killed him and made it look like suicide?

Old Post 01-28-14 07:15 #
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Captain Red
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Technician said:
It seems like people are trying to pin rational thought onto someone who wasn't thinking rationally.

Even a person with millions of dollars, two platinum records and a new baby girl still managed to blow his brains out without a race of insight.


I think this is one of the most important things to realize about a suicidal individual: they're not in a rational state of mind. You're not supposed to want to end your own life and putting a loaded gun to you head and pulling the trigger is overriding some long evolved hard wired instincts. You're not weighing up you responsibilities to loved ones properly. You just broken.

Old Post 01-28-14 10:22 #
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Shaviro
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And on top of that, some people kill themselves because they believe it to be in the best interest of their loved ones. As warped as that may be. Some parents even go one step further. A couple of years ago in this country a father killed his two children alongside himself. Because he hated his children? Probably not. Did he do the right thing from a rational person's point of view? By no means. That's why judging his character is null and void. He's not necessarily a "bad" or "good" person, he's a broken person.

Old Post 01-28-14 10:40 #
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j4rio
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Shaviro said:
He's not necessarily a "bad" or "good" person, he's a broken person.


Where do you set a boundary between broken and non-broken character?

Old Post 01-28-14 13:00 #
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Da Werecat
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I don't see much point in searching for a boundary between ill person and bad person. Refer to laws. There's a reason why various wrongdoers are being tested for sanity before being locked up.

But, of course, one may always argue that "society's labels" are for sheeple, and you need to Think For Yourself.

Old Post 01-28-14 13:23 #
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Shaviro
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j4rio said:
Where do you set a boundary between broken and non-broken character?


Are you in reality sincerely asking or somehow implying that it's wrong or impossible to make the distinction? Either way I'm sure you can see the difference between two extremes where one is criminally insane and the other chose to backstab a friend to get ahead, regretting it ever since.

When does a fetus become a person? When is a flipped coin truly resting on a table. When is something no longer a drop, but a puddle? When is a washed plate truly dry? If I break a teacup in two, one part is half a cup right? How much is left of a cup if I only break off a tiny tiny bit that's not noticable to the human eye? It's still a whole cup, right? When does it stop being your head and start being your neck?

Just because you can't give clear-cut digital answers to a question does not mean you can't recognize distinctions/extremities and classify them as such for practical reasons.

Last edited by Shaviro on 01-28-14 at 14:13

Old Post 01-28-14 13:28 #
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Da Werecat
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I was merely saying that these distinctions are already recognized and classified by people who probably know better.

Old Post 01-28-14 13:59 #
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Shaviro
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Oh, sorry. I was replying to j4rio and your post came in between while I was writing.

I agree completely with what you wrote. I'll edit my post to reflect this.

Old Post 01-28-14 14:13 #
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dew
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Shaviro said:
When does a fetus become a person? When is a flipped coin truly resting on a table. When is something no longer a drop, but a puddle? When is a washed plate truly dry? If I break a teacup in two, one part is half a cup right? How much is left of a cup if I only break off a tiny tiny bit that's not noticable to the human eye? It's still a whole cup, right? When does it stop being your head and start being your neck?

Wow, what a load of poetic garbage. Beauty may be in the eye of the beholder, but insanity? Very much doubt it. Depression does NOT make you criminally insane. You can still distinguish right from wrong, but you don't give a shit anymore. This seems to be the legal term for crazy acts commited by not entirely crazy people. Even mothers with postnatal depression killing their babies are still partially guilty, so that makes this guy still a partial asshole.

Then again, the amount of empathy each of us have for him in a thread like this probably says more about our characters and values rather than the objective reality of this case.

Old Post 01-28-14 14:44 #
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Shaviro
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dew said:

Wow, what a load of poetic garbage. Beauty may be in the eye of the beholder, but insanity? Very much doubt it. Depression does NOT make you criminally insane.



Where does it say depression makes you criminally insane?
Either way it is not "poetic garbage", it is a basic fact of life. j4rio asked for a boundary between broken and not broken and I illustrated that there is none, but rather that there is a good reason why cases of insanity is based on an individual basis and not some generic formula. Unless of course you have some magical definition with a razor sharp line between insane and not?


dew said:
You can still distinguish right from wrong, but you don't give a shit anymore.


Yes, apathy is part of it, but depression can warp your values. Right and wrong can become very skewed. All that said, we are talking about different things at the same time and not necessarily "just" depression.

As for whether he's really an asshole or not requires much more information than what we have in this thread. I have no idea whether he was truly mentally ill, depressed, criminally insane, did it for laughs. Do you? Or do you just want to be the internet tough guy stating the obvious that it sucks for the wife and child?

Old Post 01-28-14 15:02 #
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Da Werecat
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dew said:
you don't give a shit anymore

An insignificant correction: you can't give any shit anymore.


dew said:
Then again, the amount of empathy each of us have for him in a thread like this probably says more about our characters and values rather than the objective reality of this case.

Empathy is not the only reason for arguing about selfish assholes and such; but yeah, many of us are whiny emo losers.

Speaking about objective reality, it's still unclear whether the guy was actually depressed. So it's all just speculations.

Old Post 01-28-14 15:02 #
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TimeOfDeath
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I don't care how broken or depressed someone is, if they kill kids then they're very bad and very asshole imo.

Old Post 01-28-14 15:48 #
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buttspit
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TimeOfDeath said:
I don't care how broken or depressed someone is, if they kill kids then they're very bad and very asshole imo.


Yeah, doing something like killing your kids is extremely despicable. But in the incident Shaviro referenced, I'd say the guy himself wasn't "bad and very asshole", but something in his mind went really bad.

Old Post 01-28-14 16:11 #
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Krispy
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buttspit said:

But in the incident Shaviro referenced, I'd say the guy himself wasn't "bad and very asshole", but something in his mind went really bad.



IMO, you are your mind. So, yeah. He went really bad.

Old Post 01-28-14 17:39 #
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myk
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Krispy said:
IMO, you are your mind.
Mind and body are not divisible. Even if you want to think we are our minds, it still doesn't answer the dilemma because a mind is still embedded in a biological and social web that defines many aspects of it.

Old Post 01-28-14 18:24 #
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Coopersville
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Now if only the rest of the Nintendbabies followed his example.

Old Post 01-28-14 19:07 #
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Technician
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Coopersville said:
Now if only the rest of the Nintendbabies followed his example.
That was especially dark for you.

Old Post 01-28-14 19:10 #
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40oz
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I'm not really sure what we're arguing about, bad and broken are pretty much the same thing to me.

Old Post 01-28-14 21:05 #
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Da Werecat
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Broken - mentally ill; bad - immoral or something.

Old Post 01-28-14 21:26 #
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ultama121
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On an absolute level good and bad don't really exist, because mental illness (mild or severe) is responsible for behavior that is considered bad or evil... and mental illness isn't incited by the individual, it's incited by genetics and environment.

This said, I do think its safe to say that there is a "functional" bad/evil and that it crucially differs from brokenness: Basically, anybody with antisocial personality disorder or narcissistic personality disorder that wrongs others is functionally bad or evil. Anybody else who wrongs others is broken and here's why.

If you convince someone with NPD or ASPD that they've wronged you, they simply won't care; they don't possess a normal sense of empathy or any at all and as such, this information is trivial.

If you convince anyone else that they've wronged you, they'll feel remorse. They may or may not tell you that they feel remorse, but they do and that's because they have wronged you and they know it.

As you can probably tell, this is a simplification, but I think I've expressed my point well enough.

Old Post 01-28-14 23:58 #
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DoomUK
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I have no idea who this guy was, but as someone who attempted suicide once, I'd like to present a veritable "Fuck you" to everyone who's perched on their high horse in this thread. It's clear that you don't know what you're talking about. As Shaviro and others have assiduously pointed out, rights and wrongs and good and bad behavior go out of the window when your own private universe is about to come to an end, and these moral contentions made by the mentally stable simply don't apply.

That said, I don't exactly advocate suicide. The ethics of euthanasia (the euphemistic word for "suicide with a little help from someone else") for the physically impaired will forever be contentious, but for anyone with a healthy body and who isn't likely to die an uncomfortable and undignified death in the near future, it is NOT the answer to one's problems - or at least, it's not the ONLY answer, no matter how appealing being dead seems when your life is falling apart. Dead is dead, and you've conclusively robbed yourself of any CHANCE of improving your life once you've crossed that threshold. Mock the sentiment if you want to, but it's a fucking shame this guy didn't seek professional help, for his own sake as well as those he left behind.

Last edited by DoomUK on 01-29-14 at 08:15

Old Post 01-29-14 08:05 #
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Lizardcommando
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I don't know who this guy is but this quote from this article about a survivor who attempted suicide by jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge seems to be suitable:


“I instantly realized that everything in my life that I’d thought was unfixable was totally fixable—except for having just jumped.”


Whatever problems he had, it's sad he didn't try to get help (at least, as far as any of us know as of now).

Old Post 01-29-14 08:17 #
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