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What is your feeling on her guilt or innocence?
Yes, she's innocent
No, she's guilty
I really can't say/don't care.
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Hellbent
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Wow, so I haven't paid any attention to the Amanda Knox story up until right now--the one where an American college student visits Italy and finds herself accused of participating in wild sex games and murder. I'm watching the recent Diane Sawyer interview with Amanda Knox on youtube. Pretty fascinating case. Personally I'm leaning towards her being innocent. What do you think? Have you followed the case? It's pretty interesting. Of course, my only exposure to it so far is the Diane Sawyer interview with Knox.











Here's the news article I read that piqued my interest in the case when it pointed out there was no DNA evidence linking Knox to the crime.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...ticle-1.1596322

What I take from this case based on the Diane Sawyer interview is:

1. I don't believe in good acting: it doesn't seem the girl is making up a story/lying/fake crying.

2. The Italian prosecutor's case is ridiculously weak to the point of casting the Italian Justice System in a terrible light. There is absolutely no physical evidence linking the girl.

3. The lopsided Italian justice system seems to give incentives to others accused of the crime to lie to lessen their sentence.

4. The combination of a language/culture barrier and the media manipulating the facts of the case to make "Foxy Knoxy" look bad. One example of the cultural difference that the prosecution misused against Knox is her text message to her boss: "I'll see you later". This was interpreted that Knox would literally see him later, but all Americans know that "see you later" means exactly "good bye".

5. It isn't outside the realm of possibility that harsh interrogation practices would frighten and break down a young and naive girl.

Old Post 01-30-14 16:28 #
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Superluigieth1
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Posts: 244
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I don't know WHAT THE HELL this is about. And I don't care.

Old Post 01-30-14 16:32 #
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Clonehunter
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Italy is run by the mob. They thought "Foxy Knoxy" would make a good punny headline and probably think they can humiliate the US in some retarded fashion. When in doubt, blame the mob.

Old Post 01-30-14 17:37 #
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dew
experts


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Here's Euro view: she's guilty all the way, lying through her teeth and playing the victim. She only got off because Italian cops are incompetent idiots who didn't secure important proofs (or got them thrown out of court, weakening their case). Now she's getting rich selling her fake story, being a celeb and literally getting away with murder. Perfect American success story, no wonder you guys like her so much.

Bitterness aside though, seriously. You watch an entirely one-sided show where she can say whatever she wants... and through that you conclude she's innocent? How do you do that? Next thing we know, you'll watch an interview with Kevin Dahlgren and decide he's innocent as well. Because he's a beautiful American and the world is just jelly.

Old Post 01-30-14 19:37 #
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fraggle
Filled with the code of Doom


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I have to admit I don't know enough about her case to guess whether she did it or not, but I have to quote this from the intro to the Wikipedia article:


After four days of repeatedly being questioned, Knox was subjected to an all night interrogation during which—in disputed circumstances—she implicated herself and a bar owner she worked for; he was then arrested along with Knox and her boyfriend

Don't ever talk to police without a lawyer present.

Old Post 01-30-14 20:24 #
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Waffenak
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Havent heard and dont really care. I only care about people who I know and have something to do with me anyway

Last edited by Waffenak on 01-31-14 at 13:04

Old Post 01-30-14 21:15 #
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Joshy
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Damn, Snakes got some weird relatives.

Old Post 01-30-14 23:17 #
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dew
experts


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...aaaand the Italian court says guilty. So right now she'd be shipped to a prison if the prosecution wasn't amateurish and incompetent at their jobs the first time around.

Btw, I really hope American justice will do the right thing and hand Dahlgren over to us. I hear he already has Knox's lawyers on his case, but hopefully 4 cold blooded brutal murders are enough even for Americans.

Old Post 01-31-14 00:12 #
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Doominator2
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Another story where the victims country says shes guilty and the "murderers" country says shes innocent.
I sure am glad im not involved with these complicated situations.

Old Post 01-31-14 00:48 #
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Aliotroph?
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dew said:
Btw, I really hope American justice will do the right thing and hand Dahlgren over to us. I hear he already has Knox's lawyers on his case, but hopefully 4 cold blooded brutal murders are enough even for Americans.


Why does it matter? Just keep him out of your country and it's the Americans' problem if he causes them any trouble.

Old Post 01-31-14 04:53 #
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fraggle
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Doominator2 said:
Another story where the victims country says shes guilty
Kercher was English, not Italian.

Old Post 01-31-14 06:12 #
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Holering
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fraggle said:
I have to admit I don't know enough about her case to guess whether she did it or not.

Don't ever talk to police without a lawyer present.



No shit.

I actually was put in mental health care after hitting someone's mailbox, and calling 911 about it. Instead of asking me to pay money for the mailbox, I was taken custody into a mental health care unit. I was stuck there for nine days (with people who really did have problems) and upon release, was required to stay on a probationary period (think it was three months but can't remember). Biggest waste of my time and I was a college student (luckily I passed my classes despite staying nine days absent in mental health care). Could've paid for the mailbox instead, and I was forced to take medication that wasn't required. I really hate medication (especially when I'm forced to take something I don't know about, for something mental) and feel I should sue them. I learned to never be too honest with police officers and rely on them, ever in my fucking life.

Last edited by Holering on 01-31-14 at 20:59

Old Post 01-31-14 20:53 #
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fraggle
Filled with the code of Doom


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I've posted this before but it bears posting again.

Old Post 01-31-14 22:48 #
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Doominator2
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fraggle said:
Kercher was English, not Italian.

My mistake havent looked into the case that much.

Old Post 01-31-14 23:56 #
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Snakes
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Joshy said:
Damn, Snakes got some weird relatives.

I'd hoped that UR would heal family wounds, but alas... We'll have to exile her, Thunderdome-style.

EDIT: Voted before I noticed there was no Impse option. What gives?

Old Post 01-31-14 23:59 #
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baronofheck82
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Superluigieth1 said:
I don't know WHAT THE HELL this is about. And I don't care.
Quoted for great justice.

Old Post 02-01-14 02:00 #
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GreyGhost
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Hellbent said:
3. The lopsided Italian justice system seems to give incentives to others accused of the crime to lie to lessen their sentence.
Elsewhere it's called "plea bargaining" and seems to be conducted in much the same manner.

Old Post 02-01-14 04:08 #
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Jonathan
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Everything I've read suggests that the evidence against Knox and Sollecito is incredibly flimsy at best, relying on a couple of tiny forensic fragments, while ignoring the complete absence of other forensic traces in the rest of the crime scene. Compare that with other person convicted of the murder, Rudy Guede, who had a history of burglary, whose actual blood-stained palm prints and DNA were found at the scene, and who fled the country afterwards.

The police and prosecution case seems to be that Knox and Sollecito conspired with Guede, who they barely knew, to collectively rape and kill Kercher, staged a break-in, then successfully eliminated virtually all forensic traces of themselves (but not Guede) from the crime scene. It's pretty fantastical, and basically favours an elaborate, conspiratorial narrative over one - that Guede, acting alone, broke in an murdered Kercher - that is most obvious and is supported by the majority of the evidence.

What is true is that the observation of many jurists and journalists that the case against Knox and Sollecito isn't particularly weak by the standards of many murder cases, and that plenty of people are in prison, in both Italy and the USA, on evidence just as weak or weaker. The only difference in this case is that it involves a US citizen in a foreign country, which has lead to greater scrutiny than a purely domestic murder case would receive.

However, that doesn't really say much about the guilt of Knox and Sollecito, so much as the pathetic standard of proof necessary to convict people of serious crimes. We are so far from "innocent until proven guilty" and "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" that it's a joke. Instead, police and prosecutors identify suspects and invent narratives informed by their own suspicions and prejudices, then stick to them doggedly, ignoring any evidence that doesn't support them, knowing that judges and juries will implicitly favour whatever story they tell them.

This shouldn't come as a surprise. We see the same fallacies and prejudiced thinking at work throughout society. The Italian justice probably isn't much worse than that of the USA or the UK, which are just as willing to allow miscarriages of justice happen in order to save the face of the establishment.

Old Post 02-01-14 15:56 #
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dew
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Jonathan said:
The police and prosecution case seems to be that Knox and Sollecito conspired with Guede, who they barely knew, to collectively rape and kill Kercher, staged a break-in, then successfully eliminated virtually all forensic traces of themselves (but not Guede) from the crime scene. It's pretty fantastical, and basically favours an elaborate, conspiratorial narrative over one - that Guede, acting alone, broke in an murdered Kercher - that is most obvious and is supported by the majority of the evidence.

Knox and her boyfriend keep lying, but Guede was their dealer, so they knew him "well". He was a hired goon and they probably wanted him to be the fall guy - after all, there was some forensic evidence against Knox and Sollecito (for example, his footprint in Kercher's blood) and the apartment was carefully cleaned up to cover all other traces except around the body itself, where just Guede would be implicated. Did Guede clean up after himself, except he forgot about the body? He implicated the pair after he realized his own lies clash with their lies and he was going away for a long time - 30 years now reduced to 16 after Knox and Sollecito were sentenced as well.

I really don't see why the police would be trying to frame Sollecito and Knox. They already have a black drug dealer "covered in blood", if they were slacking off and just looking for an easy way out, his 30 years would stick and that'd be it. But for some reason Americans think this is a case of Italians hating on their pretty girl. Can anyone explain to me in plain words why the hell would anyone bother when they already have the world's most obvious fall guy?

Old Post 02-01-14 16:41 #
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geo
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Clonehunter said:
Italy is run by the mob. They thought "Foxy Knoxy" would make a good punny headline and probably think they can humiliate the US in some retarded fashion. When in doubt, blame the mob.


Vatican launders mob money.

Old Post 02-04-14 06:15 #
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MajorRawne
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There is no rape, no sexual assault and no media circus on Tanith. And that's because some bad guys blew up it. The fething little SHITS!

Seriously, as soon as a pretty girl gets involved in a court case my blood starts to boil; to me, the measure of how guilty a woman is, is how quickly she blames it all on men. The media turn this crap into a joke very quickly, all they care about is printing pictures of pretty girls.

Old Post 02-05-14 22:41 #
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